United Prison States of America

There are so many people in prison in the United States that tourists don't even want to visit anymore for fear of being imprisoned. The "if you didn't do anything wrong, then you have nothing to worry about" line doesn't work anymore. When 1 in 75 American citizens are in prison at any given time(that statistic is a bit old) then what chance do foreigners have just walking around doing #. The police are much more likely to arrest foreigners than citizens, that's a given.

In 2011, 1 in 25 american males were part of the legal justice system, meaning; in prison, on probation, etc. When race is taken into account that number jumps to 1 in 3 for african-americans and 1 in 8 for hispanic-americans. Clearly there are a lot of racist judges and police officers in the American Justice System. Case in point: a few weeks after George Zimmerman was aqcuited a black woman in Florida claimed the "Stand Your Ground" law when firing her legally owned firearm into the air to scare away her husband because she feared for her life. The jury took 12 minutes to deliberate and she got 7 years. Then again it's not like anyone looks to Florida for forward thinking social reform lol.

In the 1980s Ronald Reagen essentially started the drug war, with his Anti-Drug Abuse Act. Before the law, the number of incarcerated drug users was 41 000. By 2010 that number is upwards of 500 000. By 2003, 60% of women in prison were drug offenders, and almost 50% for men. Ronald Reagen's "War on Drugs" started this whole absurdity.

The United States holds 5% of the planet's entire population. However, in the worldwide prison population the United States holds 22% of all incarcerated persons on this planet. In 2003, the United States incarcerated 709 of 100 000 citizens. To give you an idea of how f*cked that is; Iran incarcerates 209 of 100 000 citizens. And to think Americans call the Iranians fascists lol. In Nigeria it's 24 of 100 000, basically Americans are out-incarcerating all of Africa!

Those numbers are from 10 years ago, things have gotten much worse. So Americans, what's it like living in a Police State?

Fully agree. Ive been 4 or 5 times in my life, and the last few visits ive not felt welcomed at all and constantly studied. I dont know every law in the states so yeah, i was worried.

There are more people in prison in the USA than in china, and china has 3 times more people total.

You know what one simple thing that could be changed to make it feel safer? Cops NOT starring you down, cops in england are nice as pie and very helpful, in the states i would sooner ask a random joe public for directions before thinking about approaching an officer.

Shame, because i like amercans on the whole, very pleasant for the most part, but the cops and customs and TSA just make the place feel unessassrly unfriendly.

reply to post by GokuVsSuperman0


While it is true Reagan ramped up the war on drugs to steroid levels (lol at using a drug reference to talk about the war on drugs ). It was that scumbag Nixon who coined the term "war on drugs" and subsequently started it.

reply to post by GokuVsSuperman0


Shocking. I'm sure I saw a thread here a few days ago where a private company has offered to buy some state prisons but on the proviso that the prison population never goes below 90%. That means that the court system is actually working to "sales targets". You may also be surprised to see how many judges and other people in law enformance actually have shares with this companies that own the prisons.

Very scary!!

I'll leave this here as well:

Most Americans Commit Three Felonies a Day — and Here's What Happens If They Get Caught

There is also a book about it:
Three Felonies A Day: How the Feds Target the Innocent

reply to post by Biigs

You know what one simple thing that could be changed to make it feel safer? Cops NOT starring you down,

A little anecdote to affirm this statement. Recently I went to the ballet in Atlanta. I was dressed in slacks, a white button down, a blazer, and a fedora. As i exited the garage there was a cop standing there. I don't normally speak to—or look at—cops, but since i was delighted to be meeting a lady there, as I walked by I said hello. He just looked at me like I was a POS enemy citizen.

When I arrived at the front of the theater, I stood waiting for a few minutes and decided to use my phone. The cop who was standing out in from of the theater was eying me the entire time like i was up to no good, and suspicious.

THIS is how cops in America are, in general, and why i despise most of them. They are trained to view and see ALL citizens and people who are not cops as suspicious, as the enemy, as people to be watched. I HAVE met a FEW, although rare, who were amiable while on duty.

Back to the OP. This what happens when A) cops are trained to view citizens as suspects, B) we have a FOR PROFIT (private) prison & probation/parole system that is contracted out, C) we have too many cops, who get bored and must FIND petty offenses and crap in order to stay busy, bust people, and take in money for the gov't, and D) when the justice system is so skewed that people with money get lesser sentences or the poor get the book thrown at them.

Most of the people in prison shouldn't be there.

Yes, we are becoming a prison state.

reply to post by GokuVsSuperman0


But Americans are so much "safer" now.


I don't disagree with your assertions but OP, how does it get solved?

reply to post by Liquesence


One time i asked a customs officer to borrow a pen to fill in my visa wavier form (the plane had run out) he told me he needed it or was using it, gave me a #ty look and went back to chatting to some other tourists.

wow. i just needed a pen for 5 minutes to fill in THEIR forms. by the time i was done TWO flights had landed i had to go to the back and i almost missed my connecting flight. Charming.

Protect and serve? yeah, themselves.

Biigs
, and the last few visits ive not felt welcomed at all and constantly studied. I dont know every law in the states so yeah, i was worried.

Tell me about it. My time in new york I felt I may as well been Bin Laden himself.

reply to post by GokuVsSuperman0


I spent almost 40 years in UK Law Enforcement mainly anti drugs related, I won't go any further than that save to say "The War On Drugs" was lost way before Reagan or anyone connected to the Iran-Contra affair got involved.

Decades ago, Afghan tribsemen were paid not to grow Opium Poppies in their fields. They honourably agreed to do so and pocketed the dollars that the CIA or subsequently DEA or others paid them and ceased growing poppies in their fields, and promptly went around the nearest hill to someone else's fields and grew them there!

LE never got to grips with the size, professionalism or ruthlessness of the drugs cartels, wherever they existed. The courts and the rehabilitation systems failed those most in need of support and the rest is history...

In the UK, cannabis factories containing thousands of plants are dealt with by front line police where previously a National Crime Squad team of detectives would have investigated it.

Ketamine was a problem for many years but did not appear on the Misuse of Drugs Act Schedule until fairly recently.

Throwing every drugs convicted person into jail does nothing other than line the pockets of private enterprise. Mind you if the track record of G4S here, especially after the Olympic debacle is anything to go by things are getting worse. They even manage the post conviction tagging system which is widely regarded by LE and law breakers alike as a joke. Jet hey are responsible for the transport of prisoners to court and so many trials are adjourned because of lost or delayed prisoners that has become a joke as well.

Decriminalise? Take away some of the profit element and legalise cannabis as the US is currently looking at? I don't know as Cannabis misuse causes so many problems it might make things worse, but then Prohibition did not stop alcoholism or drinking itself.

Tourists? Been visiting US of A since '76. Needless to say I don't do drugs. Law Enforcement from CBP to local Police have only caused me a problem once, and that was the old style Immigration at JFK, it was that long ago we flew on a 707! Immigration were not the most user friendly in those days and their poor reputation, then, was well deserved.
Now, nothing but polite, professional service at the border. Inland, the same.
If you want a bad experience or even to get arrested, bad mouth, diss., taunt an LE officer whether or not you have committed a crime and you know what to expect. Stay clean, don't break the law of if you do don't act stupid or tough and you should not end up incarcerated.

Guns and gun crime, not going down that road through the minefield of Constitution or NRA.

Too many in jail, you bet, but no easy answer for you over there, there is a limit to how many people you can jail and how much of a drain that becomes on taxpayers money.

All I am sure of is you can't put everyone in a FEMA camp, even if that was want you wanted to do, and it is pretty unlikely that all those Constitutional gun owners are going to give them up, even if legitimately sourced ammo dries up, given the porosity of the borders, land, sea and air, illegal ammo will take over, and that won't have Federal and State tax applied to it!

So, the increase in prison population or US Law Enforcement hasn't put me off visiting, nor will it. Not while the temperature is so low though.

I think we should be creating the correct terrain for people of all sorts to realize their potentials.

We should incentive the pro-social, and not focus on disincentive the anti-social.

Allow society to accommodate for all perceived "anti-social" tendencies which doesn't directly limit others freedoms.

That means, legalize... stuff, and just stop being judgmentally dimwitted.

You'd see the prison pop cut out a chunk within a yearish or so.

Plenty of people out there with the skills and talents to do good by society, who are locked up, for essentially no good reason.

Does nobody any good to just sit, just cause.

The correct therapy for the individuals needs, is best. I fail to see how sitting in a freezing arse cell for extended periods, eating poo foods, and getting educated in harder, and more complex ways of being a criminal is to the benefit of the society, yet billed to us all against many of our wishes.

Seriously, we're in the 21st century. Not the friggin' middle ages.

Wow, speak as you find, I am shocked by the quoted experiences, which I do not doubt...

However, my experience remains as stated. Perhaps an example might help the balance here.

3 visits ago,,I travelled on my own to attend the funeral in Hilton Head Island of a Vietnam Vet.
As a single male travelling on a full route that doesn't follow the norm and having cash paid for a ticket at short notice I fully expected some attention due to my "profile".
At initial check the CBP/Immigration Officer did a very professional job in his questions to me, having satisfied himself as to my bona rides he finished with me by handing me back my passport, welcoming back to the US, again, and saluting me.

I have no doubt whatsoever that there are numerous ad serious problems especially at street level for some obscure reason with the way the interaction between public and cop occurs. I do neither make light of this nor offer a solution because I don't have one. The only experience of law breaking I experienced was parking in a no parking area to watch a tug leaving a Miami waterway into the sea. The cop parked behind me and when the tug which I was obviously photographing had left quietly drove up to me, no siren, no flashing lights, no gun drawn or hand on revolver, as was in '76. I politely enquired if everything was all right and he quietly and without fuss pointed out the 2 foot high letters spelling no parking that I as an obvious tourist had not seen! Being of LE anti drugs background in what was my early days I enquired how he had worked that out. Cop said a couple of indicators, your car has hire car stickers and other indicators on it,,you look like a tourist and you have a camera and didn't flinch when I drove up or approached you. We then had a chat, shook hands and I left him to his patrol. Miami was a quieter place in those days, ate at Christina Lees restaurant, great experience.

Anyway, I have spoken as I found, and I know things have changed for the worse.

reply to post by GokuVsSuperman0


I never saw how it was ok to limit someones freedoms (locked in a cage) if what they did to get there didn't limit anyone elses freedom..

As far as cops in the US, it depends on the city a lot. Walk around in Chapel Hill and look like me (I am white but...) You will get stopped constantly. I've talked to every cop in chapel hill and never got arrested because I was never doing anything except walking around. They thought it odd that I would walk when everyone else drove I guess? One time they had 4 cops cars tracking me and they surrounded me at a mall. "That's them." Over the radio...

In Boone the cops will help you out if your car is stuck..
In raleigh I have talked to a few cops because of noise complaints and they were actually real people.

Still to this day I avoid cops at all costs and I do nothing illegal. They just love messing with people rather than keeping the peace.

Seems someone lost the plot. If the plot is to make a better society then spend all that money instead of on prisons spend it on drug rehab and education. Help people... Lock up people who hurt other people sure, because what else can you do to stop violent crimes? But other than that counseling and a helping hand is what's needed.

It is possible for people not break any law, you know...

You need to invest some time into learning the law though, and be in control of yourself.

I don't say that US prison extremism isn't real or out of control, cause it is.
But isn't making you guys look good, on so many levels... I don't understand, why people let themselves be fooled into thinking that it's normal.

I hope for all of you that you will be around when changes take place, in a positive direction.

In the mean time... Don't get caught. Or behave.

edit:
The life you live behind bars is not even close to humane by the way. Isn't it bad enough to get locked up ?
Why do you have to be caged, isolated and act like a slave at the mercy of a whip. Not even mentioning the unwritten rules added by racial groups and gangs.

reply to post by Biigs


hmmm...in China,they prefer to kill them than imprison them. What a country!!

reply to post by blkcwbyhat


In China, if you get Capitol punishment your corpse goes straight into a mobile organ recovery theatre, looks a bit like a school bus.

I suppose it is taking recycling or organ donation to extremes, but then if you are dead, hey WTF!

Source

We're #1!
We're #1!

Oh...wait...that's per capita incarceration rates. We're not supposed to be #1 there as a free nation, huh?

Ooooopsy?

reply to post by Shuftystick


I'm sure I've read that the Chinese also charge the family of the condemned for the bullet used to execute them with before they take their organs.

Rough justice!

reply to post by GokuVsSuperman0


Just some more info to toss into this thread.

A new study was released earlier today that followed 7,000 men of ages ranging from 12 to 17 starting in 1997 and ending in 2008. Here's what it found. (Traffic offenses were excluded).

Almost 50% of black males, 40% of white males arrested by the age of 23 - study

Nearly half of the African-American men who grow up in the United States are arrested by the time they hit their 23rd birthday, according to a new landmark study that set out to examine biases within the criminal justice system.

The journal Crime & Delinquency published the study Monday, which found that 49 percent of African-American males and 40 percent of Caucasians had been arrested by 23.

The authors, led by criminologist Robert Brame from the University of South Carolina, also wrote that 44 percent of Hispanic males were taken into police custody by the same age, “which can hurt their ability to find work, go to school and participate fully in their communities,” they wrote in a press release.

reply to post by GokuVsSuperman0


North Korea doesn't really sound that bad of a place to live..

Can't be any worse than America.

I might be getting a very bad-ass that allows me to fly and live all over the world in the oil industry. I'm excited that I have a possibility to have a better freedom of human rights and not have to worry about being roughed up and thrown in prison.

Maybe I've said too much and now I will be tagged, flagged, and hunted down by the NSA. A knock on the door.

"Sir? Your international freedom with your employer seems strange by your country-to-country travels... We will have to detain you until further notice"

AND THEY NEVER HEARD OF "ME" AGAIN.