ancient space programs possible?

reply to post by madmac5150


Initial thoughts highly skeptical, appreciated.

There is still evidence on this planet that there were ancient space programs. The platform at Baalbek in Lebanon is a great example. The Sumerian epics are filled with stories of Els ascending and decending in the Cedar mountains. The Epic of Gilgamesh actually describes in detail the ancient spaceport hidden in the woods. There was also an ancient spaceport in the Sinai peninsula. As the name suggests, it was first controlled by Nannar/Sin. In the tomb of the Egyptian king Huy, a golden plaque was found made by Nubian goldsmiths. On it is a stunning image. It clearly shows people in a rocket, in a silo, underground, with the capsule above ground. No one can write these example off. Somep people tried to discredit Zecharia Sitchin, but he laid all of this info out in detail.

Woodcarver

Plaster decorative architectural cornerpiece laid on its side.

You've been had.

Could you expand on this opinion or perhaps post something that supports it instead of just throwing out an interjection like a four year old?

edit on 4-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

Not an opinion.

Here's a link. It's in Turkish. Use a translator.

Or, you could use this translation: English version

Harte

Harte

Woodcarver

Plaster decorative architectural cornerpiece laid on its side.

You've been had.

Could you expand on this opinion or perhaps post something that supports it instead of just throwing out an interjection like a four year old?

edit on 4-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

Not an opinion.

Here's a link. It's in Turkish. Use a translator.

Or, you could use this translation: English version

Harte

edit on 1/4/2014 by Harte because: (no reason given)

This is directly from your own link

After this event the competing firm of Magazin 2000, G.A.R.L. sent their editor to Istanbul and he shared his findings with the public.

But almost all of the research and what was presented to the public was written in this manner:
“It is confirmed that the space ship that is now in the Istanbul Archeological Museum was found in a archeological dig made in 1975 in the old city of Tuspa that is also known as Toprakkale. It is in the northeast of the Van lake where the Urartu Kingdom spread between 830-612 BC.”
After these allegations were made it was written that it was in the Istanbul Archeological Museum but not on public display.

This article is describing how one person from the museum says it is a fake but it was later proven to actually been dug out of the ground in 1975.

reply to post by onebigmonkey


Why did I not see it, Gnomes are aliens '' , explains why they tend to leave circular marks on the lawn like ufo landing gear, seriously though you can not even claim they are similar though I do like the comparison, and yes woodcarver is correct the find was authenticated to the exacerbation of many whom wish to sweep it under the rug and no it is far from unique as there are many objects ranging from figurines to cave paintings that are seemingly of odd sights that perhaps there makers could only express by trying to carve or paint them as they may have had no relative terminology to explain them.
The army of alexander whitnessed UFOs on several occasions that seemingly interfered in the course of human event's such as the ones which struck the wall of tyre enabling the almost giving up macedonians to storm the city or the time his army where held up at the river border of india by two flying disc's or as the they were described on both occasions shining shields (which struck the wall of tyre with lighting and were described as golden discus on that occasion but silvery shields at india so not the same).

Harte I have the utmost respect for you as you know but on this occasion you are wrong except you may be right as we do not really know the interpretaion as it may be a warrior in a tubular reinforced space suit with his head missing on a spear or arrow head with three rocket motors at the back.

Between India and SriLanka are a set of shoal like islands that are made of small loose rubble and may if the mahabarrata is correct have been the foundation of the piers of a huge bridge said to have been build 500.000 years ago.


Then on the moon here are some ROCKs or are they.






Sure as hell looks like an ancient oblique crash site to me

and her are a few more to wet your appetite

Expedition frame that was recovered through freedom of information request so this is not the public release image and you might notice it is a colour frame.


A BOULDER that stopped in its tracks long ago and has sat there for a very long time.




Some unusual cratering on phobos

Woodcarver

Harte

Woodcarver

Plaster decorative architectural cornerpiece laid on its side.

You've been had.

Could you expand on this opinion or perhaps post something that supports it instead of just throwing out an interjection like a four year old?

edit on 4-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

edit on 4-1-2014 by Woodcarver because: (no reason given)

Not an opinion.

Here's a link. It's in Turkish. Use a translator.

Or, you could use this translation: English version

Harte

edit on 1/4/2014 by Harte because: (no reason given)

This is directly from your own link

After this event the competing firm of Magazin 2000, G.A.R.L. sent their editor to Istanbul and he shared his findings with the public.

But almost all of the research and what was presented to the public was written in this manner:
“It is confirmed that the space ship that is now in the Istanbul Archeological Museum was found in a archeological dig made in 1975 in the old city of Tuspa that is also known as Toprakkale. It is in the northeast of the Van lake where the Urartu Kingdom spread between 830-612 BC.”
After these allegations were made it was written that it was in the Istanbul Archeological Museum but not on public display.

This article is describing how one person from the museum says it is a fake but it was later proven to actually been dug out of the ground in 1975.

Only if you quote selectively.
From the second link:

The space module which was found “matchless” by museum curators, found as a three thousand year old space module of the Urartu Kingdom many headlines to news in the western press. But conclusions of the Ministry of Arts and Culture Memorial and Museums department chemical and petro-graphical analyses proved that those theories didn’t agree with historical reality.

There is various and contradicting information concerning how the artifact came to the museum.



One of the theories is that an antique merchant brought it to the museum. The space module, which has five engines is 23 centimeters long and 9,5 centimeters high. The General Director of the Museum Ph. D. Alpay Pasinli said that, the artifact could not be from three thousand years, but rather from 25 years the most.

Pasinli, who said that we should remember that the western press convinced their public that the space module was three thousand years old, added that they have confirmed that this artifact was made out of plaster and marble dust through the results from analyses.

From the first link:

Author had conflicting information about where the museum. According to this view, one of the module to the museum brought an antique dealer. 23 cm in length and 9.5 cm in height space module 5's engine. Monuments and Museums General Director Dr.. Alpay Pasinli of the work, three thousand years ago, but that he might have made more than 25 years ago. Western scientists wrote in their articles and writings to their public space module Pasinli reminded that he introduced three thousand years, "Review As a result of this work is made from plaster and marble dust've identified." He said.

Both are translated with online translation software and as such are somewhat confusingly phrased.

Science (except in Turkey where the artifact is and the claim was made) hasn't bothered with such a ridiculous claim so you won't find anything real about this object that isn't (originally) written in Turkish.

Harte

reply to post by Harte

Anyways. Its def not worth argueing about. Is there anything you find especially convincing on this topic?

Truly i am not a devotee to sitchin. But his work was where i started many years ago. Along with Van Dannicken. I really liked the premise of their work, but they both go way off to la la land real fast. And their need for recognition is obvious.

I find when i read the old stories alone, with no one imposing their own meanings, i can really let my mind build its own narrative. (Which is just what everyone else does) i am listening to the illiad on audiobook right now. And even in that book i can hear stories which are portrayed in the modern bible, but attributed to characters with different names. To me that seems to put emphasis on how important it is to compare all these documents to each other. I feel like if we could match the stories up and graph it somehow, then we can follow the trail and see more into the meaning and get a slightly clearer picture of what is fact and what is fantasy.

As for now, i hold that they are all works of fiction with a noticeable bit off sharing going on.

Woodcarver
reply to post by Harte

 

Anyways. Its def not worth argueing about.

True.
Just another in a long string of lies told by people trying capitalize on the ignorance of the masses.

Most people are not aware of these obscure things and never will be. After all, are you willing to learn Turkic so that you can find out the results of Sitchin's claims regarding this particular plaster "artifact?" LOL

Woodcarver ...Is there anything you find especially convincing on this topic?

Rearding the AAH, not a thing. I've never seen a single claim for evidence of this hypothesis that couldn't be easily explained by other, more mundane, facts. I've come to the point that I'm absolutely convinced that there is no such evidence. Everything I've seen over the last 30 years now has just been the same old claims recycled, with a few rare - and idiotic - exceptions (the "map of the Creator" for example.)

Now, there have been plenty of finds that need explaining or confirmation that I would love to see resolved. Hueyatlaco comes immediately to mind. I'd like to see that find vindicated (unlikely.) I've always contended that H.Erectus or one (or more) of its' descendants could have been a maritime species, sailing around on rafts or whatever. But this has nothing to do with the AA hypothesis.

Woodcarver Truly i am not a devotee to sitchin. But his work was where i started many years ago. Along with Van Dannicken. I really liked the premise of their work, but they both go way off to la la land real fast. And their need for recognition is obvious.

I sympathize with you, having myself been introduced into this morass by EVD - before Al Gore invented the internet. Back in those days, it was practically unthinkable that a person, on their own, would be able to check that old fraud's claims.

EVD is pretty bad, but Sitchin, IMO, is worse because he could write in a way that seemed very academic to people in normal walks of life. This utterly convinced a great many people that he knew what he was talking about. It takes more to refute Sitchin's claims because, unlike EVD, he picked areas to make his claims in that are quite arcane and difficult to research.

WoodcarverI find when i read the old stories alone, with no one imposing their own meanings, i can really let my mind build its own narrative. (Which is just what everyone else does) i am listening to the illiad on audiobook right now. And even in that book i can hear stories which are portrayed in the modern bible, but attributed to characters with different names. To me that seems to put emphasis on how important it is to compare all these documents to each other. I feel like if we could match the stories up and graph it somehow, then we can follow the trail and see more into the meaning and get a slightly clearer picture of what is fact and what is fantasy.
As for now, i hold that they are all works of fiction with a noticeable bit off sharing going on.

I'm more interested in what they tell us about the culture, myself. I'm sure that a great many myths in differing cultures are related, and I'm sure that many of these links between the myths of differing cultures have been pointed out and hypothesized about by a great many classicists, or comparative mythologists, that are far more learned in the subject than I am. I take it as a given that the older a myth is, the more links between cultures it can display.

But really, I think I just like the stories themselves more than anything else.

Harte

reply to post by paranormal78


I think it's possible. Imagine an alien species that was advanced enough for interstellar travel which visited earth... They likely would be very classy aliens because you don't develop interstellar travel by being bloodthirsty barbarians. They could have presented technology and created a space program on the Earth for the Earthlings.

For the unimaginative and pragmatic, it's obviously possible. Humans evolved over 100,000 years ago science dictates. That would have given them tens of thousands of years to develop a space program before catastrophe struck (changing terrain) which removed the evidence of such a civilization.

amazing people think glass and meatles would disinagrate in just a few 1000 years lol.
Nope high tek we would find burred junk all over the world metal glass wires .
Rocket parts and even roads would still be around concreat steel and so on.
Grante 300 million years from now if there people they will have no problems what so ever finding our garbage dumps full of excamples of our tek.
btw glass will last darn near forever bured and even steel will if buried in the right places.

reply to post by midnightstar


There are polymer eating bugs that seemed to be dorment or native to subteranean ecosystems as we now know life in otherwise solid rock has been found down to a depth of over 2 and half miles and more (they are now taking advantage of the readily available polymer food we have provided in the form of plastics as well as engineered microbes to control oil spills and biodegradable plastics that have caused there numbers and subsequent rate of evolutionary adaptation to go off the charts) and not all single celled, glass is essentially a silica compound and unlike obsidian (Which also breaks down but much slower) glass actually breaks down when exposed in just a few centurys at most becoming more brittle over time as the molecular bonds weaken, buryed glass may last longer but given geological and other natural process remember it is essentially a very high viscosity fluid and can break down into it's individual crystals as does most metal.
None ferrouse metals such as gold would be the most likely survivors as all ferrous (Even stainless steel) are reactive and over time can be broken down by chemical interactions and oxydisation, the earth is a living planet with a recycling mantle and living ecosystems unlike the moon which is still exposed to many environmentaly challenging factors such as partive solar radiations which will break down all but the densents crystalline structures over the millenia and particle bombardmen, when a meteor strikes there is almost no atmosphere and the particulate ejecta are not slowed so rain down with ballistic velocity, then of course heat and cold - expansion and contraction, take a piece of ductile wire and bend it back and forth to simulate the effect of the heat and cold, watch as the moleculare crystals seperate and the weaker atomic bonds break eventually it will snap, now imagine that over an entire structure - it turns to powder as you can see.
I can not believe some people do not think, but then some people wish to hide there heads in the sand with the rest of the sheep, what we must retrieve may be of eminent importance to the future of the human race as we must find out what happened to them as it can and will happen to us but if we are prepared maybe, just maybe we can weather it and save billions of lives and trillions yet to be born.

LABTECH767
Expedition frame that was recovered through freedom of information request so this is not the public release image and you might notice it is a colour frame.

A BOULDER that stopped in its tracks long ago and has sat there for a very long time.

Glad you aren't offended by my gnome photograph - that's just how I see it. The carving is a stylised person, not an astronaut!

As for the above we're obviously not going to agree on the your interpretation - I think they're just rocks, but I have to take issue with the 'Expedition Frame' thing.

I have a copy of National Geographic published shortly after Apollo 17 that has a colour view of that boulder complete with the lunar rover. It's a montage of several photographs, and the only difference between the one in my magazine and that one is that they've used a different astronaut photograph. It's magazine 140here. The images were all publicly available - you could order them from NASA as long as you were prepared to pay for them and they were in the Preliminary Science Reports.

The boulder trails were also well known and are shown in the same National Geographic article - they've also been seen on images taken by the pre-Apollo Lunar Orbiter series. I think they're believed to have been dislodged by impacts from other objects. I'm obviously going to believe this is more likely to have been from meteorites, you might think differently

reply to post by LABTECH767

I disagree, and I have the evidence to prove you are wrong.

Here's one piece of it:
Schöningen Spears - 300,000 year old wooden spears. Link

300,000 years is a long time for wood to hang around.

Many people are not aware that most large (skyscrapers) buildings built today have foundations of huge concrete pillars extending hundreds of feet into the ground.

It's true that concrete will eventually crumble. It is not true that, in the process of crumbling, it will come to resemble the dirt around it.

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Right now bear with me as I am going off on a tangent here,

You know what an event horizon around a black hole is right, the point at which the space time continuum stops and the singularity begins, now we have no way of knowing if an actual einstein type black hole exists but we do know that super dense bodys do that fit most of the criteria, now I am going to presume that einstein type black holes do exist and show a mechanism that may be opposite to the every outcome exists theory of quantum parrellel universe theory.
Now lets say there are parralle universes and borrow once again from quantum theory as relates of cosmological theory and the idea that gravity emanates from outside our universe in the normal sense of the word, ie from a sub space membrane in superspace and then think on the effect at the event horizon were gravity may very well equal e, now as such an event horizon forms it is not impossible that mutiple parrallel realitys where multiple different historys have occured could be condensed through a gravity wave that would flow out from that event horizon zipping them parrallel realitys in which the same black hole formed together.

What would be the outcome, well you would likely have the prime reality from which the others originally diverged as the only true but not uncontaminated survivor as strong reality elements from many of those parralels would become incorporated into the singular reality that was left, now as a historian I am certain you can envisage the implications to the nature and perception of reality for the denizens of such a combinant reality and how entire technologys could simple be erased while the memory of them could remain among other things.

call it a goblin universe ruled by chaos theory but with a set order that is yet to be defined in human terms.

paranormal78
If humanity were to stop bulding modern technology, everything would be gone in a relatively short amount of time.

Not really. It would be buried and overgrown, but if we all vanished tomorrow a lot of what we created will last millions and millions of years. Particularly the plastics and glasses and ceramics and purified metals (and the holes we dug to get the materials to manufacture them) that are necessary to create a large space program.

reply to post by wirehead


i agree with what you are saying, if we are finding 300 million year old fossils, then surely we would find something from the existence of an industry such as you mention........

There is no theory about every outcome being eventual in a multiverse of infinite universes.

In fact, it's easy to show that this is not necessarily the case.

But even if it were, there's still no mechanism other than passing through your connected singularity to percieve, much less visit, another universe.

This thing you're describing is very similar to the Einstein-Rosen Bridge which, while theoretically possible, almost certainly doesn't occur at your ordinary singularity due to the geometry of the spacetime in the area.

This sort of wormhole would have to be constructed and maintained. And there simply would be no way for anyone to determine even if there was one original the others came from, much less which one it was.

Lastly, your scenario leads to no event that could wipe out even the slightest trace of an earlier civilization. The sort of event you're talking about would wipe out an entire universe, not some speck of dust in one.

Harte

flipflop
reply to post by wirehead

 

i agree with what you are saying, if we are finding 300 million year old fossils, then surely we would find something from the existence of an industry such as you mention........

Exactly.

That's why I said "...and I have the evidence to prove you wrong."

We have all kinds of evidence from hundreds of thousands of years ago and earlier (not to mention the more recent stuff.)

Harte

reply to post by Harte


Ah but harte I am taking both Einsteinien and Quantum mechanics theory which so far have not been properly combined as you know and no this is not a wormhole, imagine if you will that all percieved reality is simple a standing wave form at right angles to the percieved flow of Time space and consider that the possible parrallel universe theory (which is a quantum theory, an atom randomly goes left in one universe and in the parrallel universe it goes right now this can be partially supported with the famous apperture split test where by a photon produces a full interference pattern even when split and one apperture is shut a test which can only be explained by suggesting that the photon which is both energy and wave can somehow jump between the realitys existing in both simultaneously - you might want to check on this as I am not making this up and it has given normal physicists a migraine for some time though there are a few alternative theorys they also rely on pure conjecture).
No what I am talking about is a wave form that acts both at right angles to the TSC and perhaps weakens in effect over distance but then again may be absolute as the external superspace force should be in function greater then the local weak quantum effect, Anyway it is conjecture but puts a spin on all those rains of fishes we read about in the fortean times.