How time does not exist, what it really is and how it limits our life.

reply to post by AliceBleachWhite

AliceBleachWhite

While it's a fun exercise from a creative writing and facilitation of imagination aspect to make up one's own rules about the nature of the Universe, Space-Time, and anything else one might desire to imagine while sitting in the garden smoking, in reality, there are branches of science already dedicated to understanding and modeling Space-Time.

So say your paralyzed, blind and deaf, what can you perceive? Therefore what is reality without electrical signals. Now with the consciousness just floating, how will the person ever know they died? With no concept of time or space?

If a person was born this way there would be no concept of time to perceive. They may not be able to perceive anything. This would mean that it is just the now, there is nothing past the moment or behind it, this means that anything that happens is within one moment and not many.


I understand people have means and models to look at space-time and they are people that only look outside of themselves, not in. The only model iv come across that I agree with is hafele and keating experiment.
They basically almost show what I mean but the only proof you have is a clock on your wall.
www.cartesio-episteme.net...

A English person could argue with a French person that the true name of the colour red, is indeed red and not rouge, but the reality their is that reality is purely perceptual.

As I said before, time is not an actual force. If you take way the clock, you take away time. What your calling time, I refer to the motion of matter/flow of matter/motion.

Time does not effect you, what effects you and makes you age, is particles vibrating, particles bouncing off us, us absorbing bad energies, a combination of different frequencies but what truly is, is far more incomprehensible than what a clock can measure. Time is a man made thing, the actual fabrics of the universe are not.

The universe also works like this btw..
Big made small, small grew big, and made small, and grew big...
Finite comes from the infinite.
The unlimited gives the limited.
A tree created a seed and the seed created a tree.
The immaterial give...

The universe only exist because of opposition, if there was no opposition between forces, no disorder, for if forces oppose each other that are not equal one will always triumph, it has to be 4 take away 4 in order to get 0, because right now purely in conceptual form its going 14324535545564245654345676543. For the universe to be one again there must be an equilibrium, like cold and hot are the same thing just on different ends of the same pole, temperature, but i prefer to see hot and cold as the same thing, in a different form, freezing and scorching burn but just a different kind of burn, where as when they meet an equilibrium you cannot tell whether it is hot or cold because it is neither, it just is.

I hope this helps anybody who wants to know how the universe works.

The lips of wisdom open only to the ears of understanding.

reply to post by Jukiodone


So I am picturing people wearing hats that are recording the body's planck values and then displaying their "time" on a digital panel.
I know it might sound silly but is that the sort of time that is being discussed? I am trying to get my head around planck values and how time would be perceived if it were calculated that way.

Time is the shackles that imprison us, strange the ancients went to great lengths to embed this into their architecture. Perhaps the "Gods" taught us the importance of time for that reason. A slave to the clock, a slave to the seasons. Without the understanding of time we wouldn't know when to harvest.

reply to post by Wisdomer


The problem with these theories is that we can actually record time. Clocks stop, they run fast or slow but time recorded does not change. Think of a video tape with time code. It is there forever, never changes as long as the tape is kept in good condition. No, time does not change, perceptions change often though and that is normal part of life so long as cognition exists anyway.

I have no issue viewing time in mechanical terms though. Another example: you plant a seed (in a small pot) on your own accord...you provide the dirt, the water, the sunlight. Nothing is going to happen without time. Does not matter what you do from that point, you can stare at it, you can talk to it, you can close your eyes and hope all you want that when you open them something will be sprouted out of that dirt but it's just time that it needs.

All that said, our lack of ability to physically interact directly with time perhaps may give false impression of it being "super natural", but that is only our perception. Time is a primary element of nature. As far as i am aware, time code is our best visualization.

Time is a measurement of movement yes, partially. No matter how small that movement is, time would always be.

If we take for granted that nothing exists as well as everything, and one copy's the other then, time would be a mirrored image of no-time, whether negative or positive.

If we were to step outside of the world and look upon it from outside, time would for me, in my mind appear as only now. For nothing is infinity, while the world would seem endless while observing from the inside.

Time of course is, but we cannot measure it accurately, for we only look for references in the world to look upon it and measure it, we now use atoms, hence atom clocks. Maybe we will find something more precise on our way as a collective, Higgs boson or whatever it may be.

The same is with distances.

To me, the world is like:

The biggest is as small as the smallest, and the smallest is a big as the biggest, for they are the same, yet opposite.

Hot and cold: only our perceivance of the two make up what we call and describe them. The hottest is as cold as the coldest, the coolest is as hot as the hottest, for they are the same, yet opposite.

Just look at the interior of the atom which make up our world: 0.00000000000...........1% matter, 99.9999999..........9% empty or plasma(non-matterish energy) or whatever it may be.

So you see by that observation, we never touch anything as there is always the same amount of space between things, it is only the energy transferring the 'will' of the neurons in our body's that make our movement. And for other material things, only energy.

As some dr. said: 'God' made the intervals(imagine a ladder, or a guitar fret board or piano keys).
So we use those intervals and what is stored on them and comes from them.

Hence we can see, the world is dependent on movement which is dependent upon time which is, and the other way around, and both are dependent upon energy(vibration as everything vibrates).

Just look at our brain hemispheres...

crowdedskies

Harte


Will you now claim that distance is illusory as well?

Harte

Yes it is as well.

So, can you see over the counter?

How?

Harte

you do understand the you can keep track of time with the sun right?

if you only "now" exsist. then now im impssible to describe. now being, the 1 hour that your thinking about, the second, the millionth of a second? from the moment you have a thought it is now a memory. you can measure time down to the smallest number indenfitatly means EVERYTHING that is happeing "now" is a memory. but i digress, time very clearly exsists, as complicated as it is....its there.

reply to post by Wisdomer


These are interesting thoughts. I view the concept of "now" as the singularity between past and future. I guess 1 unit of Planck time is the theoretical time measurement for "now"- which is 10^-43 seconds in duration. Maybe so...

Regardless, time does in fact exist as a fundamental dimension of this universe. It has to, otherwise we wouldn't be here. Sure, give the universe a length, width, and height, but without a time dimension, when will it exist?

IOW, I can tell you to meet me at the building on the corner of Elm St and Main st., 4th floor. But what good is that without the when?

reply to post by amurphy245


I'm not in any way, I'm just enjoying the topic discussed in this thread.

I do understand your point of view.

reply to post by NorEaster


Damn!! you have to throw in with with logic and formula? LOL

I'll shut up now, thanks

reply to post by NorEaster

Time is the progression of each quantum of Now replacing the previous quantum of Now. At the Planck Time rate or at whatever Unit Rate of Change it actually is that this progression is happening. It's the common rate of synchronization within our universe, and it's what allows all that exists within this universe to physically interact - thereby establishing this universe as the physical whole that it is.

You just said there that time is really the Now, you say the quantum Now replacing the quantum now. This is what im am saying, time is not split, time is not today, tomorrow, after, soon, yesterday- These things put your mind in a prison.

The way you say it, it is split, because you are trying to still divide it with quantum Now 1 replacing Quantum Now 2 and quantum Now 2 Replaces quantum Now 3. You may as well go 1,2,3.
(Beg my pardon if you didn't mean it that way, you maybe ment it how i say in the next paragraph)

The quantum Now cannot replace the quantum Now, because the shift would have to be so smooth and simultaneously synchronized that there would be no gap/difference between the Quantum Nows making it just one big Quantum Now flowing, Just one moment, not moments replacing moments. Just one now, not stopping, so neither starting.

If the Quantum Now replaces the Quantum Now and there is a gap, the universe would rip apart, there is just a continuously flowing Quantum Now. Just one. But because there is no gap, there is no 1,2,3. There is no -------------------- for they would rip like _____~ . It is just ________________________

Time implies separation between moments and that their is a past and future.
It could been seen as the past, present and future together. Understanding that they are one and not separated.

reply to post by Wisdomer


I'm sure I'll get some goofball feedback but what I'm about to say is the truth. I personally know two Native American shaman (one Lakota and the other Lenape) that have both spoken with and interacted with Star People. Both, in fact, have gone up in vehicles, high above the earth. One has since, disappeared (a long story there). The other, makes it 'back' from time to time, but doesn't know where his family is. Time, it seems, has changed for them, upon their return.

The one that made it back, mentioned to me that time does not exist where they went.

Not sure what he meant. Not yet anyway.

reply to post by PaJoe52


Cool story dude, there's no time or space in the astral plane/afterlife.

NorEaster
reply to post by AK907ICECOLD

 

Are you Wisdomer's girlfriend or something?

Time exists in spite of the impact it has on material things and their structural survival. There is a unit of measure that physicists established when they realized that material reality is based on quantized progression of units - one replacing the previous unit in direct succession - and they realized that in order for quantization to exist in any form whatsoever, it would be necessary that each quantum of whatever it was that was being observed or measured exist within its own existing unit of Now, relative to the unit of Now that was occupied by the previous quantized unit (or quantum, if you prefer). They decided to call this unit of quantized Now, Planck Time, and even offered a formula that they could all agree on for using Planck Time within other formulas.

This is the formula -

That formula basically describes the time it would take a photon traveling at the speed of light to cross a distance equal to one Planck length - within a vacuum, of course.

Planck Length is the smallest spatial measurement, and if you Google it, the Wiki page will help you out with that.

Yes, these measures are arbitrary, but that's actually not the point. The point is that there is direct logical inference that proves beyond any doubt that Time is not an illusion - even if your own personal experience of time progression is undoubtedly illusory (as is all mind perception). Even physicists have to deal with the progression of Time as they calculate and calculate and work to prove that all sorts of impossible things either exist or don't exist as they've been previously defined.

String Theory doesn't work as a bona fide theory that can be falsified due specifically to the fact that they refuse to address the 800 lb gorilla in the room that is Time progression within the confines of any of their hypotheses. And they all know this is why String Theory is struggling so badly now.

Einstein went to his grave upset over what had become of Quantum Mechanics because of the fact that Time progression had been so aggressively ignored by the blackboard junkies and their obsession with math calculations. I guess that Einstein would've been one of those guys criticizing Einstein, if what you suggest is true.

The "Time is an illusion" notion isn't new, and it's not supported by much more than 20-something kids who've just discovered the metaphysics section on Youtube and whatever talking points they've recently picked up on Internet forums like this one. You and Wisdomer are both aging, and you're aging whether you believe in Time or not. Time is the progression of each quantum of Now replacing the previous quantum of Now. At the Planck Time rate or at whatever Unit Rate of Change it actually is that this progression is happening. It's the common rate of synchronization within our universe, and it's what allows all that exists within this universe to physically interact - thereby establishing this universe as the physical whole that it is.

Not difficult or mysterious. And certainly not a projected illusion from some human mind. The human mind is the result of reality. It's not the author of reality.

DING DING DING DING !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Winner !!!!!!

I believe in living in the now, I mean now.....now.....arggghhhhhh......now. My quantums are going by to fast now.....I mean now.

reply to post by Wisdomer

Time is merely a tool in order to keep society synchronized and in order. An illusion.

All good beaurcracys are fanatical on timesheets as a good illusion requires slaves to make the privileged ones live the dream.

Think of a car traveling on a road. As it is travelling the car always exists in the now. However, the road behind it was the now but will not be the now again. The road ahead of it will be the now but not until car gets there. Before someone asks me "what if you stop the car.....derrrrrrr". This is just an example of "living in the now". You are always living in the now.

As for your body, you will age and you will die (environment and climate might speed it up or slow it down). Time is not the determining factor in your death it is just the measure of your life cycle. Your body is a machine. It wears out and it dies. The non-existence of time, or the existence of only the now will not stop your bodies life cycle. The non-exitence of time is not the fountain of youth.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Well said, the best way to take away some ones power, is to make them believe they have it.

reply to post by wdkirk


You say that believing time does not exist is not the fountain of youth(not saying it is), but you have not tried it or found the fountain of youth so i would say you are not in a position to make such a statement and for it to mean anything.

Every little helps in taking away low vibration energies.

Yes we are always in the now, which would mean 10 years is still now, but it is not, now, now, now, now. It is just the now.

What i am saying is, yesterday and tomorrow don't exist. It is always today, this day, the day never moved, just our concept of the former and latter moved it.

Tomorrow never comes, so yesterday never came and made today.. Which would mean we've already died and not even been born yet.

It's an infinite loop of finite as long as tomorrow exists and yesterday.

Personally I find your post a stream of Metaphysics jargon along with your replies to many valid posts in this thread. I will comment on a few things you originally posted.

Wisdomer
Almost 3 years ago i had an epiphany, whilst in the back garden at midnight staring out onto a field, overlooking the town i sat with my friend.. smoking.

Always skeptical of an understanding of something so complex as time coming during a heavy smoking session that induced an almost vegetative state.

Wisdomer
Only the moment is. Only the now.
I said to my friend" Time does not exist, the past is our mind, the future is our mind, neither are there, but the now."

Seems to be the main point of your post. Now exists and everything else is in our mind. It's a philosophy of perception argument...however you are arguing both are valid. Your saying that perceptions of now are external to mind however previous (or future) perceptions of now are only in the mind. Logically you can not have both. If you accept that now is external to mind then everything is external to mind, including time.

Wisdomer
To me that says time counts time, an infinite loop of illusion ed finite.

Time does not count time. Scientists have measured time in various ways, none based on 'time'. They currently count radiation (not decay) from a Cesium atom.

Wisdomer
I will say age is not determined by time, but by depending upon the material ageing, what other substance and materials it is exposed to. We can also say here that age is governed by the behavior of particles and particles vibrate and this vibration ages. These particles undergo a particle acceleration process in our body that regenerate our cells and make us age, we technically rot.

Not only are you going to explain time, your also going to explain the complex process of ageing! Wow are we lucky your dealer supplied enough ganga for you to master Physics AND Biology! Sadly I can't comment on the 'particle acceleration process' you mention happening inside people because it's meaningless jargon that sounds complex.

Wisdomer
If we freeze an apple, it does not age as much, yet you can sit there and count on a watch how long it has been in the freezer and when you get it out time has not affected it or stopped flowing.

Here you are mixing up the 'ageing' process with the passage of time. Clearly 'things' age differently depending on a ton of variables. Your apple in extremely hot sunlight 'ages' differently. None of this interesting ageing process has ANY impact on the measurement of time.

Further you said, 'time has not affected it' which implies time directly acts on things to cause change. Time is a unit of measurement however and doesn't cause anything. You go on to try and prove time and ageing aren't related, when it's obvious they aren't. One, ageing, is a process of change some object goes through due to its environment. The other, time, is a measurement between events.

Wisdomer
Time is merely a tool in order to keep society synchronized and in order. An illusion.

Time is far far more than a simple organizational tool! The measurement of time is CRITICAL to Science and our modern understanding of the world. Nothing you have stated supports time being 'an illusion' whatsoever.

Appreciate you application of philosophy and metaphysics to a fundamental pillar of science, time. I clearly didn't find it helpful to understand the nature of time however.

reply to post by noeltrotsky


I am saying that other people some times mix the passage of time with ageing. I know time is not a force, other things are at work to cause deterioration/change.

That is the misconception i stated.

noeltrotsky
Here you are mixing up the 'ageing' process with the passage of time. Clearly 'things' age differently depending on a ton of variables. Your apple in extremely hot sunlight 'ages' differently. None of this interesting ageing process has ANY impact on the measurement of time.

Further you said, 'time has not affected it' which implies time directly acts on things to cause change. Time is a unit of measurement however and doesn't cause anything. You go on to try and prove time and ageing aren't related, when it's obvious they aren't. One, ageing, is a process of change some object goes through due to its environment. The other, time, is a measurement between events.

I didn't put on here ##SNIPPED## so some egotistical warmongering mindless heathen could come and trample on pearls i have laid down. Instead i would of thought a more understanding approach would have been taken, like i said, is every factor not of fundamental importance?

since everything can be understood. Show some respect, i'm 19 and i'm sure if you had a talk with me about life you wouldn't say jack jones to me like everyone else, ya dig? I wonder if you even have enough processing power and guts to think as deep and open as that 16 year old could.

Time is a measurement, with the tool been the clock. Where is your proof other than a clock?
We need time for physics and science, as an instrument of understanding i know.

Time is a linear unit of measure, where as age is not limited to the linear, so you cannot accurately use a clock to measure age/change. Yes maybe you can use the atomic device, there will always be so many factors when it comes to ageing.

You said.

Here you are mixing up the 'ageing' process with the passage of time. Clearly 'things' age differently depending on a ton of variables. Your apple in extremely hot sunlight 'ages' differently. None of this interesting ageing process has ANY impact on the measurement of time.

Further you said, 'time has not affected it' which implies time directly acts on things to cause change. Time is a unit of measurement however and doesn't cause anything. You go on to try and prove time and ageing aren't related, when it's obvious they aren't. One, ageing, is a process of change some object goes through due to its environment. The other, time, is a measurement between events.
Time is far far more than a simple organizational tool! The measurement of time is CRITICAL to Science and our modern understanding of the world

The measurement of time,
time is a unit of measurement,
time is a measurement,
the measurement of time is critical.

I'd like to rearrange it like so to show time is an illusion, depending on how many brain cells you have left since they've been exploding whilst reading my post i am not sure you will be able to comprehend such a concept, even though you told me time does not count time.

The measurement of time, time is a unit of measurement, the measurement of time, time is a measurement.

So in order to get the measurement of time, since time is a unit of measurement and time is a measurement, how are we suppose to measure this critical measurement?
How old are you.

You have a web of lies spun around your field of vision obscuring it. Think for yourself and stop believing what you are taught things are.