Forget Hitler's Holocaust - Evil Britain's pet Holocaust is just as horrible !

RadarOReilly

Lazarus Short
Cracked.com? Seriously?!

This is ATS; that's a completely valid citation here.

It's funny people quibble over Cracked.com because no matter where it comes from, doesn't make the story any less real. It's easily a historical fact that's verifiable.

JohnPhoenix
So you thought Hitler was the only sick bastard on the block huh? Guess again.. looks like those British are just as evil.

No...you are the sick one! What a load of nonsense! Written by someone who obviously has no idea what it meant to live in Britain during WWII and the huge sacrifices that ordinary men, women and children had to make every day.

Not only did we endure rationing of food which actually started in January 1940 and lasted until some time after the war in 1954 and rationing of other non food essential's...but we were attacked on the home front. During the "blitz" there was much carnage, huge loss of life, even greater injury, hundred's of thousands made homeless. Ordinary people had to do anything and everything to survive and life was about staying alive and doing everything possible towards the war effort so that Britain would not fall.

And survive they did....despite huge personal loss for many....and they did it with great strength and courage. Hitler was never able to break the peoples moral as he had wrongfully anticipated.

My dear old great Grandma told me many stories about life for ordinary men, women and children in Britain during WWII, including the loss of her brother. And I am extremely proud of the sacrifices that those people made in their day to day lives.

So evil British...no
But they sure as hell did what they had to do to survive...and I couldn't be prouder!

So excuse me if I care more about the civilian men, women and children ....than I do about the fact that some pet's may have been euthanized rather than the owners have to worry about keeping them fed, safe and alive during great times of hardship and carnage.

And stop quoting the fact that the government issued this advice just prior to food rationing starting...the advice was pre-emptive because they were preparing for what was coming....and as it turned out they weren't far off the mark! So the timing issue that you keep getting hung up on is a non argument!

JohnPhoenix
Er.. check the facts. This was initiated because of a fear the government had BEFORE anyone was starving at all.

And to put your thread into context:

At the start of World War II (1939), the United Kingdom imported 20 million long tons (20 Mt) of food per year (70%), including more than 50% of its meat, 70% of its cheese and sugar, nearly 80% of fruits and about 70% of cereals and fats. The civilian population was about 50 million. It was one of the principal strategies of the Germans to attack shipping bound for Britain, restricting British industry and potentially starving the nation into submission.

As I said, British High Command were well aware of the risks facing the UK as War was declared - this was pre-emptive advice and, as it turned out, a very accurate assessment of how things would go down. Whilst in Sept 1939, there was no shortages, it would only be a matter of a few months before there were.

JohnPhoenix

ProfessorChaos

JohnPhoenix

LiveForever8
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

As for your Hitler comparison...what are you on about? These weren't cold, heartless murderers slaughtering millions without a second thought.

Er.. how do you know? Seems to me murdering your beloved pet by order of the government is just as cold and heartless as Hitlers actions. No.. in many ways this is much worse than Hitler's holocaust. The government didn't want people to be humane and take care of their pets. They deemed pets do not deserve to live so they made the owners kill them. (I wonder how many children wound up eating their pets!) They turned all Britains citizens into murderers. That's worse.

Normal people do do things just as evil as Hitler and yet - we tend to think nothing of it and or forget it quickly. That's my point.

You may be right.. perhaps they were not cold and heartless.. just stupid.

BTW folks, I have nothing against the British. In fact I love them and have many friends from across the pond. I'd have posted the same thread if this happened in America or any where else.

edit on 1-1-2014 by JohnPhoenix because: sp

So by your logic, it would have made more sense to let all of those animals die of starvation? I was expecting something FAR different when I clicked on this thread.

By the way, it was a government recommendation, not an order. If anything, it was the most humane thing that could have been done; these were domesticated animals that were not necessarily prepared to fend for themselves in the wild, and what do you think would have been done to a starving dog caught snacking on a dead human body? Yep, they would have been shot on the spot.

I'm sure a great many of those families (particularly the children) were absolutely brokenhearted to know that this was indeed the only true option for the situation.

Comparing this to Hitler's holocaust is silly at best.

Er.. check the facts. This was initiated because of a fear the government had BEFORE anyone was starving at all.

I would not have let my pet into the wild. I would not have murdered my pet. I would have kept my pet and fed it whatever I could find to keep it alive. My pet is like Family. I would no more let her out of my sight in a war any more than I did for Hurricane Katrina ! I still have my girl.

I'm sure most of the cats people did let loose fared just fine.. cats will thrive in the city outdoors in 1939 just like they do today. Those cats had a much better chance in the streets than getting murdered by the hand that raised them !

And no one gets the Hitler point.. LOL.. you guys are funny. Hitler is a Monster we all agree but so what, we can All be Monsters. They made monsters out of every person that shot their pet. People DID have better choices but 750,000 of them didn't bother. They allowed themselves to become The Monster.

edit on 1-1-2014 by JohnPhoenix because: sp

You are making vastly wild comparisons here, and yes I love my pets and care for them, none of them are human, or would take anything from a human in my household. Your comparison to Hitler, would cause me pause, and should cause you pause as well, maybe a call to mental health line would not be out of the question.

HanoiLullaby
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

You would have been better advised to do some quality research before your insensitive and inappropriate rant. This 'article' - I use inverted commas because the article you linked to was taken almost word for word from a BBC article so I ought to use the word 'plagiarism' - and much of the factual side of what actually happened has been left out by what I can only assume is some attempt at anglo-bashing.

I am restraining myself to not point out the innumerable hypocrisies in your pointless diatribe but suffice it to say you are so far off the point as to establish a level of personal ignorance which makes it astonishing that you manage to find a job that pays enough so you can afford a computer to publish your ill conceived nonsense.

Your post is ignorant to the point of offensive.

Now this is the funniest so far. It is nor here or there that the Cracked article came from a BBC article - I had no way of knowing this nor does it matter. You claim there are details left out but I see you do not supply the details or BBC link. It was my job to report on the Cracked article, and that is what I've done.

As for your 2nd paragraph's attempt at baiting me with frivolous drivel - you fail to expound on any "innumerable hypocrisies " which would lend a modicum of meaning to your criticisms.

Oh btw, no job, fully retired at 46 with two houses, cars, all paid for, wife, kids, money " in the bank". I can pretty much do whatever I wanna do till I'm 100. Posting on ATS is Great fun so I think I'll keep at it for your enjoyment.

BubbaJoe
Your comparison to Hitler, would cause me pause, and should cause you pause as well, maybe a call to mental health line would not be out of the question.

Really.. so.. it's now NUTS to show how a monster can be in all of us just as it was for Hitler?

Doesn't anyone have good reading comprehension skills these days.. i never implied killing animals were worse than killing humans - everyone here is missing the point. It was Never about Humans vs Amimals !

JohnPhoenix
Now this is the funniest so far. It is nor here or there that the Cracked article came from a BBC article - I had no way of knowing this nor does it matter. You claim there are details left out but I see you do not supply the details or BBC link.

No, but I supplied the BBC link earlier, which just shows you don't read other people's posts.....

stumason

JohnPhoenix
Now this is the funniest so far. It is nor here or there that the Cracked article came from a BBC article - I had no way of knowing this nor does it matter. You claim there are details left out but I see you do not supply the details or BBC link.

No, but I supplied the BBC link earlier, which just shows you don't read other people's posts.....

Yeah.. some posts I skim over. I can do that. it's my thread. LOL.. if a post looks interesting enough to me in the first or second sentence, I keep reading, if not, I may come back to it later.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


Ah right, so the big-arse post I did on page 1 basically pointing out the fallacies behind your OP, you "skimmed over"...

Righto... At least we know how your mind works..

"That one's too tough for me to argue, moving on...."

ok now iv'e calmed down WE the english love our pets.
this would of clearly been a last desperate measure that i doubt would of been followed through.

still think this is a bait thread though.

JohnPhoenix


Oh btw, no job, fully retired at 46 with two houses, cars, all paid for, wife, kids, money " in the bank". I can pretty much do whatever I wanna do till I'm 100. Posting on ATS is Great fun so I think I'll keep at it for your enjoyment.

So based on that, you can pretty much piss on people's entire history, compare their government to Nazis, and do whatever the hell else you want. I am pretty sure there are people on this site that can buy and sell you many times over. I would suggest you get out of the whiskey, and truly figure out what is important in life, or none of what you listed will be yours any longer.

stumason
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

Ah right, so the big-arse post I did on page 1 basically pointing out the fallacies behind your OP, you "skimmed over"...

Righto... At least we know how your mind works..

"That one's too tough for me to argue, moving on...."

Well, yeah.. cus you replied to me but quoted someone else.. to me your post was more toward them so i skimmed over it.

i went back and looked.. I did not read the BBC article. You open with this:

"No one was "ordered" to do anything. This was simply advice given. Get your pets out of the cities in case of wide-spread bombing/food shortages and if not, it really is kinder to euthanise them. "

But that's my point. It wasn't kinder to euthanize them - Before the fact! The point at which you decide you MUST kill you pet is just before it's about to die a horrible death - you do it to shield the animal from the pain you know is going to come. You don't do it because of what MIGHT happen in the future. That's not euthanasia it's murder. They had a better choice.. keep the pets and take care of them as if they were their own children. I'm sure many people did and both pet and owner lived through it.

Remember, this was a year before the food rationing and yet in the first week of this "suggestion" 750,000 pets wound up needlessly with bullets in their heads. I cannot see anything like this being justified at this time.

reply to post by stumason


Related, yet, a little off topic, in the depression a lot of people couldn't afford to buy "meat," so some resorted to buying dog food to eat. My grandad, knowing this, bought a better grade of dog food for that store, knowing the people were too proud to tell him that they needed to buy dog food to get through a hard time. People do desperate things in desperate times, and life isn't always fair. We want to judge others, but don't know what others are going through, which that in itself really isn't fair.

BubbaJoe

JohnPhoenix


Oh btw, no job, fully retired at 46 with two houses, cars, all paid for, wife, kids, money " in the bank". I can pretty much do whatever I wanna do till I'm 100. Posting on ATS is Great fun so I think I'll keep at it for your enjoyment.

So based on that, you can pretty much piss on people's entire history, compare their government to Nazis, and do whatever the hell else you want. I am pretty sure there are people on this site that can buy and sell you many times over. I would suggest you get out of the whiskey, and truly figure out what is important in life, or none of what you listed will be yours any longer.

You BETCHA BUDDY !

Er.. that was funny because you are one of the ones who still have no clue why I mentioned Hitler or seem to understand what this thread is all about.

LOL I'd like to see someone try.. TRY to buy me off of ATS. Not gonna happen.

JohnPhoenix
Well, yeah.. cus you replied to me but quoted someone else.. to me your post was more toward them so i skimmed over it.

Indeed - I have such a mighty intellect, I can reply to two people in the same post

JohnPhoenix
i went back and looked.. I did not read the BBC article.

It was there, though and clearly labelled as such.....

JohnPhoenix
You open with this:

"No one was "ordered" to do anything. This was simply advice given. Get your pets out of the cities in case of wide-spread bombing/food shortages and if not, it really is kinder to euthanise them. "

But that's my point. It wasn't kinder to euthanize them - Before the fact! The point at which you decide you MUST kill you pet is just before it's about to die a horrible death - you do it to shield the animal from the pain you know is going to come. You don't do it because of what MIGHT happen in the future. That's not euthanasia it's murder. They had a better choice.. keep the pets and take care of them as if they were their own children. I'm sure many people did and both pet and owner lived through it.

There was no "might". High Command knew exactly what would happen with the War and they were spot on in their assessment - why do you think we spent the better part of the 30's appeasing Hitler and avoiding War? Because we knew within a few short months, we'd be on our own and under siege.

The advice given was spot and accurate - but that's it, just advice. You have claimed several times in this thread that the Government ordered them to do so, this is blatantly false.

What you're also missing out is the great many pets that weren't euthanised. Clearly, some people thought it would be best - and given the state of some cities in 1940 they would be correct - while others felt otherwise. It was left as a personal choice to make and with the prospect of rationing around the corner, it was a pragmatic solution.

You're judging people on the cusp of an almighty War in the first half of the last century with modern ideals, which is just plain wrong. That said, I'd euthanise my pets if it came to it and if food was that scarce, I'd eat the bloody things too!

reply to post by stumason


I added this to my above post:

Remember, this was a year before the food rationing and yet in the first week of this "suggestion" 750,000 pets wound up needlessly with bullets in their heads. I cannot see anything like this being justified at this time.

JohnPhoenix

BubbaJoe

JohnPhoenix


Oh btw, no job, fully retired at 46 with two houses, cars, all paid for, wife, kids, money " in the bank". I can pretty much do whatever I wanna do till I'm 100. Posting on ATS is Great fun so I think I'll keep at it for your enjoyment.

So based on that, you can pretty much piss on people's entire history, compare their government to Nazis, and do whatever the hell else you want. I am pretty sure there are people on this site that can buy and sell you many times over. I would suggest you get out of the whiskey, and truly figure out what is important in life, or none of what you listed will be yours any longer.

You BETCHA BUDDY !

Er.. that was funny because you are one of the ones who still have no clue why I mentioned Hitler or seem to understand what this thread is all about.

LOL I'd like to see someone try.. TRY to buy me off of ATS. Not gonna happen.

I know all about what this thread is about, it is a I got mine, now you get yours thread. OMG the government is going to control us, what the f ever. Rush has been on for 20+ years, and hasn't got me on board, your sorry post isn't going to either.

I am a pretty astute historian, WWII and Hitler are one of my favorite subjects, I will do you the favor of not exposing your little scam on the less well informed, while stroking your ego. While in my mind, I will ignore most of what you post. Karma really is a ruthless individual, reap what you sow.

JohnPhoenix
reply to post by stumason

 

I added this to my above post:

Remember, this was a year before the food rationing and yet in the first week of this "suggestion" 750,000 pets wound up needlessly with bullets in their heads. I cannot see anything like this being justified at this time.

And yet, you stubbornly refuse to realise that this pre-emptive (and no bullets were involved - dramatic, no?) because High Command knew exactly what would happen.

I have even provided data on just how much the UK relied on food imports at the time and also that the German Kriegsmarine would instantly, upon War being declared, target British shipping as they did in the last War. This was a known plan they would use.

It would have been totally irresponsible of the British Government to advise this after food became scarce as it would have probably made the situation worse before anyone could act. Rationing came into affect in January 1940, just 4 months after War was declared, indicating that quite quickly food supply security was a major issue.

BubbaJoe

JohnPhoenix

BubbaJoe

JohnPhoenix


Oh btw, no job, fully retired at 46 with two houses, cars, all paid for, wife, kids, money " in the bank". I can pretty much do whatever I wanna do till I'm 100. Posting on ATS is Great fun so I think I'll keep at it for your enjoyment.

So based on that, you can pretty much piss on people's entire history, compare their government to Nazis, and do whatever the hell else you want. I am pretty sure there are people on this site that can buy and sell you many times over. I would suggest you get out of the whiskey, and truly figure out what is important in life, or none of what you listed will be yours any longer.

You BETCHA BUDDY !

Er.. that was funny because you are one of the ones who still have no clue why I mentioned Hitler or seem to understand what this thread is all about.

LOL I'd like to see someone try.. TRY to buy me off of ATS. Not gonna happen.

I know all about what this thread is about, it is a I got mine, now you get yours thread. OMG the government is going to control us, what the f ever. Rush has been on for 20+ years, and hasn't got me on board, your sorry post isn't going to either.

I am a pretty astute historian, WWII and Hitler are one of my favorite subjects, I will do you the favor of not exposing your little scam on the less well informed, while stroking your ego. While in my mind, I will ignore most of what you post. Karma really is a ruthless individual, reap what you sow.

Yep.. I was right. No clue what this thread is about. You couldn't be more off.