Gun Nuts attack singer for no-gun restaurants

reply to post by badgerprints


reply to post by intrepid


I agree. He has every right to do so.

schuyler

The guy has his rights. Good for him. My gun is concealed. What's he gonna do? Strip search me? People also have a right to discuss his decision, just as you question someone who chooses to pack. Both of you have a right of free speech, so have at it. In my view people have a false sense of safety if they believe a "no guns" sign. My reaction is to not patronize the restaurant. So if the perp ignores the sign and comes in blazing away, good luck to you. I'm sure hiding under the table will help.

edit on 1/1/2014 by schuyler because: (no reason given)

a. I agree on the concealed weapon part. How many people carry concealed and never is a single person the wiser
b. Yet, I prefer not having people drink alcohol whole carrying a gun
c. someone carrying also has a false sense of security. weapon retention, accurate aim UNDER DURESS (I dare say that some 'yukety yuk' who has a gun is MORE LIKELY to hit an innocent bystander than the target,

Ever hear of "caught in the crossfire"? this is my concern.

That MOST people with guns ----- are NOT CAPABLE of ADEQUATE utilization.

AND if my family is in a restaurant with some bonehead who starts a shootout with an armed robber just took a bad situation a MADE IT WORSE -- exponentially.

IMHO, only former military and police should be allowed to carry in a public place. All other should be FORCED to undergo similar training before EVER allowed to carry in public.

There are instances where EVEN trained police hit innocent bystanders when in a shootout. And they have SIGNIFCANT training and undergo ROUTINE practice.

Some average never served Schmoe is MORE DANGER to EVERYONE..

Why? because usually, an armed robber will NOT USE HIS GUN during a robbery. Until the 'yukety yuk' pushes the issue.

Oh, and where are these documented cases of someone going into a restaurant and shooting the place and it's patrons up?
for every ONE, it is EASY to sight 100 cases where OTHER risk factors are more a concern... namely DUI's alone.

reply to post by HanzHenry


I dont know about your state, but in most you have to complete and extensive background check and complete a CCW course. Which actually does teach you to pick your battles as well as adequate marksmanship.

Although you may not need a class and background check to OPEN carry, its not as though you can just walk right into a store that bans guns with your weapon just hanging out. And if you do, then most in the gun community wont defend your actions.

It seems to me that most people are ignorant to the fact that the majority of "gun nuts" are actually fairly intelligent and understood at a young age to respect your tool.

Chickensalad
reply to post by HanzHenry

 

I dont know about your state, but in most you have to complete and extensive background check and complete a CCW course. Which actually does teach you to pick your battles as well as adequate marksmanship.
It seems to me that most people are ignorant to the fact that the majority of "gun nuts" are actually fairly intelligent and understood at a young age to respect your tool.

That CCW course and background check are a lame excuse if you consider that adequate training.

I can't believe you even think it is adequate??

it is a joke, a go through the motions type thing.

If you were never an agent, officer, or military person then sorry, you haven't received adequate training to USE the weapon in a 3 dimensional environment.

1st dimension -- self
2nd dimension -- target
3rd dimension -- other unrelated parties.

Have you been through a CCW course? they are a COMPLETE JOKE in terms of proper usage of a weapon.

3 afternoons or a weekend is NOT EVEN CLOSE to adequate, and where is the YEARLY quals.. where if you fail you, you must retake before allowed to carry for that year.

for someone not possessing this VITAL (imho) training, you are completely ignorant to it. no offense, ignorant to be taken in the raw non-insulting form.

Had I never been in LE and military capacity, I too MAY feel that it isn't necessary, But since I have been through it, I can guarantee that in a firefight, those without it WILL put innocent bystanders in much greater peril. this is a guarantee and promise.

Wait and we will see this come to fruition. There is NO WAY around it. Bystanders WILL get caught in the crossfire of a needless shootout by some "do gooder" with a gun.

reply to post by HanzHenry

While I agree with you that a CHL, CCW, CCL should not be considered the "end" of one's training, I would ask you the percentage of bystanders injured in police shootings vs the percent injured by a "do gooder" say last 10 years - that justification for your argument feels like needless fearmongering with no basis in real stats, though without the numbers it's speculation, no?

...Wait and we will see this come to fruition. There is NO WAY around it. Bystanders WILL get caught in the crossfire of a needless shootout by some "do gooder" with a gun.

reply to post by HanzHenry


Yes I have been through military training and yes I have been through 2 CCW courses and I still uphold my original statement.

Though I do see your point and understand it, I still disagree. It seems you may have been subject to some very unsavory history with weapons. I too have, but still hold mankind and my fellow gun owners to a better standard than is portrayed on ATS right now.

I would trust every CCW I know with my life and my families. Fortunately, I wont have to

And I can honestly say that the courses I was in were more than adequate. Maybe not the case in your area. But that is an issue right now nationally.

Who's courses are adequate enough to be recognized in other states?
I believe thats the topic of the debate your looking for.

CB328
Am I the only one who thinks that calling someone an America-hater for not wanting weapons of destruction in their business is crazy?

No. You're not the only one. But I personally think fly poop is a more interesting topic to debate.

intrepid
I'm finding this argument amusing... once again. I see all these folks saying, "If something goes..." Life is full of "ifs". If(pun intended) you feel that you aren't safe without a gun you've got a lot more to worry about than getting shot. Like enjoying your life without fear.

Do you wear a safety belt when you drive out of fear, or because there is a small chance you might get in an accident any given day and it might save you? Do you lock your doors when you leave your house because you are always fearful?

There is a big difference between being fearful of something and preparing for any of life's risks that may or may not come.

LadySkadi
reply to post by HanzHenry

 

While I agree with you that a CHL, CCW, CCL should not be considered the "end" of one's training, I would ask you the percentage of bystanders injured in police shootings vs the percent injured by a "do gooder" say last 10 years - that justification for your argument feels like needless fearmongering with no basis in real stats, though without the numbers it's speculation, no?

this whole gun carrying thing is something sort of new. I recall growing up with a rifle rack in the back window of pickups, but those gun never came inside a restaurant.

The justification is that it IS coming, just wait. Some over zealous 'gun nut' will make a bad situation much worse when they start a shootout with someone.

Yes, police have hit bystanders. Imagine how much more that would have happened had they received only marginal training and routine practice.

SHooting at a paper target in some shooting range or cans in some field is NO WAY adequate for a real situation involving an armed robber/attacker.

AND my family hopefully wont be near one ever..

I rail on cops all the time, it is for love of my nation. BUT, they do receive a pretty significant amount of training and CONTINUING training for the exact circumstances perceived.
The average 'gun nut' who has never been military or LE.. imho, until they complete an intense 160 hr course. have NO BUSINESS carrying in public.

If someone involved in a shootout screws up under PANIC, then what?

Chickensalad
reply to post by HanzHenry

 

Yes I have been through military training and yes I have been through 2 CCW courses and I still uphold my original statement.

Who's courses are adequate enough to be recognized in other states?
I believe thats the topic of the debate your looking for.

Awesome! I hope I didn't cone off wrong. I meant IF you had never.. since you have.. super.

carry on.. (pun..lol)

I still feel that those lacking this VITAL training have NOT the capacity to carry.

And YES, there is a HUGE variance in the quality of CCW training.

And if you had some free time, maybe look into some of the adverts/flyers offering the training.

Many gun stores have stack of CCW training options. yet NONE of them really require a skillset for returning fire. (meaning someone shooting AT you)

If everyone had to undergo military/LE level training then my concern would be vastly muted

Xtrozero

intrepid
I'm finding this argument amusing... once again. I see all these folks saying, "If something goes..." Life is full of "ifs". If(pun intended) you feel that you aren't safe without a gun you've got a lot more to worry about than getting shot. Like enjoying your life without fear.

Do you wear a safety belt when you drive out of fear, or because there is a small chance you might get in an accident any given day and it might save you? Do you lock your doors when you leave your house because you are always fearful?

There is a big difference between being fearful of something and preparing for any of life's risks that may or may not come.

edit on 1-1-2014 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

Interesting point.

Does owning a fire extinguisher constitute fear as well?

HanzHenry
The average 'gun nut' who has never been military or LE.. imho, until they complete an intense 160 hr course. have NO BUSINESS carrying in public.

If someone involved in a shootout screws up under PANIC, then what?

What is the average "gun nut"? How many in the last 50 years have killed innocent bystanders by panicking? ( guessing you mean shooting wildly or something along those lines)

Most that do carry also see guns as their hobby and I would put money on that many shoot a lot more per year than your typical cop, and many seek combat courses too as part of their hobby. Even with my 28 years in the military and what I do professionally as a civilian now, I shoot a hell of a lot more on my own than what would be needed to maintain proficiency on any job requiring to carry.

reply to post by intrepid
C'mon sir, even the Boy Scouts preach "being prepared" the "if" factor isn't about fear IMHO but about evaluating risk and making the adjustments to better manage that risk - is it really any different than a pilot carrying an emergency kit or Joe Schmo carrying some extra gear in the truck in case it breaks down? That's not fear, just prudent planning.

*Though I also agree that alcohol and guns don't mix

The problem with the gun nut will start trouble is that all the pieces are in place today and we don't see it happening very often, it at all. Not saying a person can't control guns on their property but people are not having daily shoot outs with bad guys in restaurants. I think these type of businesses are low on the target list.

beezzer

Interesting point.

Does owning a fire extinguisher constitute fear as well?

Personally I don't carry all the time, kind of a pain, but when I drive across country or any kind of wilderness hiking/camping I'm packing... I also have 4 extinguishers on my boat and two in my house too..

I'm a "gun nut" as you say. I dont like Toby Keith, I dont like his restaurants. This is the same Toby Keith that right after 911 came out with that song with the words " we'll put a boot in your arse,it's the American way". Then I would call Mr.Keith a hypocrite. And I would'nt eat at a hypocrites establishment to start with.

roadgravel
The problem with the gun nut will start trouble is that all the pieces are in place today and we don't see it happening very often, it at all. Not saying a person can't control guns on their property but people are not having daily shoot outs with bad guys in restaurants. I think these type of businesses are low on the target list.

A lot depends...location, time of day etc...Typically if I carry I really hate to leave my gun in my car, I have had my car broken into before.

The reality to consider is CC means a reasonable person can not tell you are carrying, if they can tell then technically you are not concealed carry. What this means is many people go anywhere packing because no one can tell...and in the case of a business all they can do is ask you do leave.

So at the end of the day it doesn't change a thing if a business has a no gun policy or not since CC person doesn't really care.

CB328
Am I the only one who thinks that calling someone an America-hater for not wanting weapons of destruction in their business is crazy? Really the obnoxiousness and downright stupidity of gun worshippers has gotten so far out of hand I think it is irreparable. Mad Max here we come:

Toby Keith under fire for no guns policy at his restaurant chain

social.entertainment.msn.com...

It really depends on how dangerous that neighborhood is, and how quickly the cops can arrive when called out. If you've got a gun-free restaurant right next to neighborhoods where the locals thing it is fair game to raid businesses at gun-point. Just look at what happened to Kelle Hunnewell

www.wistv.com...

How would suggest such people defend themselves from muggers, robbers and other murdering terrorists when they are alone at night?

reply to post by Sovaka


Breasts don't kill people, people kill people. I've heard that before... oh wait, NO I HAVEN'T! How is this AT ALL related to breast feeding in public?

Literally, a gun has almost NOTHING in relation to a tit. You realize this, right? A nursing mother can't get pissed off and end your life by spraying you in the face with breast milk.

reply to post by CB328


This seems less like an actual problem and more like a reason for you and those like you to paint us all as a bunch of toothless hillbillies because we own guns.

A post on facebook does not an attack make.