Harpers conspiracy to end senate

Yes, yes, there is more to Canadian politics than Toronto's crack smoking mayor.

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In 2007, Prime Minister Stephen Harper went on record, saying he wanted to reform the Senate and make it elected, or end it all together: “Mr. Speaker, I very clearly said that this party’s preference is to see a reformed and elected Senate, but the Senate must change; if the Senate cannot be elected, then it should be abolished. Those are the choices.” Now that was six, getting on seven years ago now, so some time has passed, but never underestimate Harper. Harper’s political enemies and friends have both made that mistake. A great illustration of Harper’s conniving abilities are found in allegations made by Sen. Mike Duffy, if there is any merit to what he has to say. But at this moment in time, the RCMP is investigating his claims, so it would seem that there is some truth to it.

This is a pretty interesting column talking about PM Harper's involvement in the Senate Scandal, and looks at the deeper tones behind this situation. What does the gang here on ATS think?

The US Senate was originally elected by the State Houses--usually from their members. But TPTB had us change that to popular elections---where their MSM connections and money for advertisements could more easily elect their preferred candidates.

Sounds like what Harper has in mind?

reply to post by tribaltrip


Might be a good idea...

They should reform what they pay politicians/senators in Canada as well...

Pay them what their worth... about $5 an hour should do...

and that's being generous

reply to post by Akragon


lol, and apply chargebacks when money is wasted... I'd love to send an invoice to Dalton Mcguinty for the power plant scandal. The party should really be forced to pay back money they've lost.

reply to post by tribaltrip


Somehow I don't think that in his scheming and plotting, he thought to include the tenaciousness of Thomas Mulcair and the effectiveness of his questioning. The barrage from Tom and the 'el stupido idiotica' replies from the conservatives have weakened the party brand a lot, I think. The Harper brand began to take a hit way back when Marjorie Lebreton looked so smug when she finessed a non-discussion of an omnibus bill some months ago. It was obvious then that the senators were only doing Harper's bidding rather than giving the bill any kind of sober second thought at all. To me they proved themselves to be redundant and of no importance.

So do I think he plotted and schemed? Of course. That is his way. He denigrates and hopes to sway people to his aggressive negative opinions.

It will be sadly interesting to see how it turns out.
Did he appoint fools to senate appointments purposefully?

Did his strategists expect them to naturally implode upon themselves?
If Duffy was a true journalist why didn't he take a recording device to all those decisive meetings?

Does dismantling the senate remove one more "hurdle" Harps has to deal with?

Hard to figure out Sneaky at times.
Going to take this spot to say it again - Pam Wallin (because she hails from the home province - we used to be so proud of her) you should be ashamed.

They all should be.

reply to post by ItsEvolutionBaby


Well put!

Good catch! I had always thought that these expense scandals were part of a larger conspiracy to eliminate the Senate. I am glad someone else made that connection and put it to paper.

reply to post by Akragon

The Senate is one the most important aspects of the three houses of parliament. Members are appointed by the prime minister of the day. These are usually people that have risen to the pinnacle of their chosen career or profession whether it be politics, financial, business, sports, media....ect. The Senate is supposed to offer sober second thought before legislation is enacted. What an appointed senate can offer that an elected body cannot is wisdom. The wisdom of experience of being the best and not just good looks, a financed agenda and a forked tongue needed to command popular choice. Certainly Senators are worth their weight in gold and not the 5 bucks suggested by Akragon. Sadly they couldn't prevent Harper from coming to power.
The Canadian people dismissed this party into oblivian once before and will dispose of them again....... Just the crap stuck in the drain floated to the top.

reply to post by brice


Thank you for helping to explain the senate, and their purpose.
I knew Harper wouldn't be into dismantling them to save taxpayers money.

We've been shammed for so long in so many ways by lying politicians - I can't answer for Akragon, but their comment re: being worth 5/hour I would bet is part of our collective frustration.

I remember back in the 90s they were trying to get some senator ousted because he never attended meetings, especially in the winter. He was too busy receiving "alternative medical treatments" in Mexico.

And there's been a few (cough) incidents of politicians squandering our money before, and since then.

reply to post by ItsEvolutionBaby


Thank you for your thoughtful response. I do also remember a senator that lounged in Mexico collecting his salary. From Wikipedia.........
(Andrew Ernest Joseph "Andy" Thompson (born December 14, 1924) is a former Canadian politician. Thompson was leader of the Ontario Liberal Party and later served as a Senator. He was elected as the Member of Provincial Parliament (MPP) for the west-end Toronto Dovercourt electoral district in 1959. He was elected the Ontario Liberal Party's leader in 1964. His physical health began to fail in late 1966 forcing him to retire as the Liberal leader. He was appointed to the Canadian Senate in 1967, forcing him to resign his provincial seat in the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. He attracted media attention in 1997 and 1998 for making few appearances in the Senate over the past decade. His health issues never really went away, and gave that as his explanation for his truancy. He became the first Senator ever stripped of his office staff, salary and expense account for truancy, in 1998. A month later he resigned in order to receive his pension.)
Sadly, no matter the institution there will always be people that take advantage of loop holes. This does not mean we should abolish the institution but reform it by closing the loopholes.

reply to post by brice


I hate to play devil's advocate here, but I have to ask, shouldn't our parliamentary process function without a need for a second sober thought. Shouldn't the representation be strong enough that appointed critics are not necessary? What good is an auditor if he is bought off from the start?

Again just devil's advocate.

reply to post by tribaltrip

Good question tribal.
There is not a lot one can do if a politician is bought out or sells out. The beauty of a lifetime appointment (I think until 75 then pension) is there is absolutely no fear of loosing one's job for voting their conscious and not along party lines, ideals or the flavour of the day.
Why aren't elected officials enough? As stated in previous post these officials are selected by the Prime Minister and are usually the best in their field of expertize or made some sizable contribution to Canadian society.
An example of this could be a retired politician that has been appointed to the senate. A new piece of legislation is being moved through Parliament. The senator may remember similar legislation the was passed and failed decades earlier because of unforeseen circumstances. He can then make recommendations or amendments so the new legislation can work as intended.
In other words senators bring wisdom. Something new, pretty, young, enthusiastic, whipper snapper politicians fail to bring to office with them.

reply to post by tribaltrip


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reply to post by tribaltrip


The Canadian Senate is entirely useless.

It's a body of non elected 'favorites' who get to deny, modify and make legislation, without any kind of input from our elected house.

It's a HUGE waste of money and should be abolished. It's the ONLY damn thing Stephen Harper will have done right if he succeeds.

~Tenth

Happy New year Fellow ATSers!

reply to post by tothetenthpower



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reply to post by brice


I'm well aware of how the senate works and how it hasn't been a thing that's helped Canadians in a long time.

It's not anti-senate propaganda. Senate activities could EASILY be folded into the existing House Of Commons hierarchy.

It's an entire body of politicians that cost Canadians more than 100 million dollars a year. NOT including their pensions.

The Senate is NOT in the best interest of Canadians if not heavily reformed. It's entirely unlike the US Senate, which serves a proper purpose. If our system more closely resembled theirs for the purpose of the Senate, then I would haven no problem.

~Tenth

reply to post by brice


Happy New Year's as well friend. Great answers and optimistically logical.

I've never paid much attention to the senate, and I probably don't follow federal politics as much as I should...

But I live in Toronto Ontario, we have enough problems at City Hall, let alone the boondogle that is the provincial liberals...

I think a lot more than just senators need to be reformed in this country.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


As someone from Ontario, I know about wasting money (the province just gave away 150,000 in grocery store gift certificates because people lost power for a few days) and a lot of what you say comes down to the lack of fiscal responsibility, which evidently the Senate is not a very good example of.