Questioning Conditioning

When was the last time you questioned your own reasoning?

It is rather common to come across a reply on this website that presents itself as an objective universal truth, when in reality it is just another highly regarded opinion of the author. This is not to say that the advice given lacks substance, just that the person dispensing the advice has themselves been a victim of conditioning in one form or another.

Even the author of this thread has fallen victim to conditioning. Why do I think the way I do? Why Do I express my ideas in this manner? Why are my thoughts and feelings the way they are? Why do I feel it is important for people to acknowledge that their opinions are the product of conditioning and not some objective universal self-evident truth?

The next time you come across something that feels objectively true, ask yourself whether the reason for it feeling that way might be due to conditioning.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


I don't think I do it enough, unfortunately. Meta-cognitions (thoughts about your thinking) are things that pass me by, most of the day as I go about doing everything that needs to be done.
It's rare to get the opportunity to sit down and really assess your thinking, although I could argue that this site does exactly that, and that most members seem to be quite good at it.

When you say 'conditioning' I think of the behaviourists like Skinner and Pavlov, and I think most would argue that psychology agrees we are a bit more sophisticated than that. But we do conform to norms and cultural values to help us fit in with our community, whichever that might be. It starts from childhood, when we listen to fairy-tales, which serve as moral and ethical compasses and let us know what is ok and what is not acceptable. Cultural tales follow, you could include religion here for many, and we begin to internalise a lot of these values as our own. After all they are useful, and help us to integrate with our communities.

But it's when we accept them blindly, or hang onto unhelpful thoughts and beliefs that they can start to be noticeable. It's a good idea to have a mental 'spring-clean' every now and then, which is what your post has led me to think about. On the whole, I would agree with you, we don't challenge our thoughts and beliefs enough.
S&F for the reminder.

I analyse my reasoning quite often. My mind is still very much in its infancy, and I've got a lot of growing up to do before I can positively affirm anything beyond doubt. For now, I can only question. Question myself and question others. That's how I learn.

I don't believe in universal truths, period. The very concept seems nauseating to me for some reason. Universal truths positively reek of conditioning. They're prepackaged ideas, more or less. And I don't buy.

I'm not sure just how much of my thought patterns were shaped by conditioning. Probably a large part. I know lots of people would say that all human behavior is conditioned, that free will is an illusion. But I'm not so sure about that. Most of my thought patterns are radically different from those of my social environment. If I was conditioned, then just who (or what) conditioned me?

Very interesting point, in this day and age we have all been pulled from the natural habitat of the jungle and are now roaming around a concrete world polluted by sublimal messages, thought control and everything else that may be considered UN-natural.

It's up to the individual to break free of the polluted environment, it's up to the individual to harness their natural feelings (the ones they've had since birth) and not those feelings that this system has incorporated into their souls.

reply to post by Dark Ghost

When was the last time you questioned your own reasoning?

Yesterday. And I will probably question it again today in some form or another. A few years ago, I was introduced to Cartesian Doubt. I have used a form of it ever since. Though it really boils down to "question everything". Including yourself.

Social engineering and conditioning may be the biggest, and most powerful weapon ever used on humans. And becomes even more effective when you consider the technology available as a medium. TV, radio, print, etc. If we do not question our own thought processes, reasonings, and beliefs, on a regular basis. We become the zombies hollywood has frequently portrayed us as.

Society conditions people. Some conditioning is good and some is bad. Religion has a lot of good conditioning in it but it also contains a lot of bad conditioning derived from it's ties to past and present governments and the belief in economy and society itself. It is almost impossible for a conditioned person to break away from the conditioning that is governed by society and still live respectably in society. Our society here in America has a norm that is distorted but people do not see it is distorted because the distortion is so widely accepted. It has always been that way as long as I have been alive and It was probably that way when my father grew up. We are influenced by what is accepted in our society and to go against this means you are shunned and placed into another class of society. There are many classes or groups.

I have no knowledge on how to fix this. Our country is getting more and more polarized. People cannot see this, they are blinded by their beliefs and interpret evidence to fit their beliefs. It is a mess, but this mess is not only in the USA. It is worldwide. What happened to being brothers. But then again, many brothers can't even get along anymore.

reply to post by Dark Ghost


A seeing thru Platos cave thread. . My idea that is not original is:
Seek within and restart all from scratch and rebuild a new you once in a while, where you think thru every part and fit it to one single piece of understanding that fit all things you have experienced yourself.

And if you notice synchronicity follow it if it part of the you that you have created.

I can see that really although, many layers beginning at childhood and depending on Who's doing the Thinking 4U is the question I ask myself!

Now back 2 yrs ago, everything started showing itself so I learned to start question everything! At the get go of doing this, you find yourself going nut's. Since tearing down what you yourself actually thought was a Fact is nothing more then a story passed down from another. Finding nothing to hold onto them more only brings many more questions later.

Since most of the thoughts you do have do bring Feeling into said questions, then one needs to actually find out Where and Why them Feeling were created in the first place. Some have claimed Childhood problems are the cause to many problems in Life and that is all one needs to Fix Themselves.

A ball of yarn in your head to unravel; most turn away after seeing this, for to actually use your Own Mind is something forgotten or is not Allowed anymore. You can, and it is Good to actually see all the parts connected as Knots rather then being Freely connected. As one does go deeper into the mess of things; your head anyway, you will find a list of people waiting to be there to Change you back!

Then the Real questions come for one to look at. Not only having an open mind and staying away from the Placing things as Facts, a box you created anyway.

It is Okay to say, I Do Not Know and leave it at that.

Peace

rickymouse

I have no knowledge on how to fix this. Our country is getting more and more polarized. People cannot see this, they are blinded by their beliefs and interpret evidence to fit their beliefs. It is a mess, but this mess is not only in the USA. It is worldwide. What happened to being brothers. But then again, many brothers can't even get along anymore.

Duality creating flocks of humans against each other and for instance Religion is used as a divider. I cannot understand people who can use Jesus or Buddhas message as a divider. Just weird to me since they seem to say the same with different words.

But from my point of view life here seem to be a crazy mmorpg and sometimes a very boring one. Whatever happens it can be repaired, but it takes a lot of effort to do it.

reply to post by infoseeker26754

Then the Real questions come for one to look at. Not only having an open mind and staying away from the Placing things as Facts, a box you created anyway. It is Okay to say, I Do Not Know and leave it at that.

So wake me up when it's all over
When I'm wiser and I'm older
All this time I was finding myself
And I didn't know I was lost

Didn't know I was lost
I didn't know I was lost

I am obligated to do it all the time. I am living in a foreign land. Cultures have different world views, different perspectives and values and beliefs so deeply conditioned that go unquestioned by their people- unless they step out and come face to face with opposing views.
I came to the realization long ago that nothing I think or believe to be true can be relied upon as universal. So I dropped all attempt to hold such things. Everything I think is just that- what I think, right now. It could change tomorrow, it could be mistaken... but you have to start somewhere, and it is impossible to have no thoughts and also engage actively in this world.

But it was very traumatizing to lose that illusion of safe footing. I got used to it with time though.

reply to post by Cathcart

I don't believe in universal truths, period. The very concept seems nauseating to me for some reason. Universal truths positively reek of conditioning. They're prepackaged ideas, more or less. And I don't buy.

Are all men not mortal?

reply to post by Klassified

Social engineering and conditioning may be the biggest, and most powerful weapon ever used on humans.

Correct. Though still frighteningly imprecise.

We're working on it.

reply to post by Dark Ghost

When was the last time you questioned your own reasoning?

It is rather common to come across a reply on this website that presents itself as an objective universal truth, when in reality it is just another highly regarded opinion of the author. This is not to say that the advice given lacks substance, just that the person dispensing the advice has themselves been a victim of conditioning in one form or another.

Even the author of this thread has fallen victim to conditioning. Why do I think the way I do? Why Do I express my ideas in this manner? Why are my thoughts and feelings the way they are? Why do I feel it is important for people to acknowledge that their opinions are the product of conditioning and not some objective universal self-evident truth?

The next time you come across something that feels objectively true, ask yourself whether the reason for it feeling that way might be due to conditioning.

I'm not sure I quite understand how conditioning makes us victims. What kind of enemy is conditioning that it makes us victims of it? Who conditions who? Who allows us to be conditioned? Who is leading us lambs to sacrifice? The individual is not a victim. He is that enemy.

Klassified
reply to post by Dark Ghost

 

When was the last time you questioned your own reasoning?

Yesterday. And I will probably question it again today in some form or another. A few years ago, I was introduced to Cartesian Doubt. I have used a form of it ever since. Though it really boils down to "question everything". Including yourself.

Social engineering and conditioning may be the biggest, and most powerful weapon ever used on humans. And becomes even more effective when you consider the technology available as a medium. TV, radio, print, etc. If we do not question our own thought processes, reasonings, and beliefs, on a regular basis. We become the zombies hollywood has frequently portrayed us as.

THIS ^^

reply to post by Dark Ghost

Why do I think the way I do? Why Do I express my ideas in this manner? Why are my thoughts and feelings the way they are?

Ah, indeed.

These are the big questions that every living human needs to address in order to have good "mental health".

If we never examine the foundations/sources of our point of view, we can not grow. It is, in my thinking, the "main event" - to understand one's own narrative, and to examine why one has "bought in" to certain concepts, ideas, thought patterns, and behaviors as 'appropriate.'

The most profound pain of being human often springs from "cognitive dissonance". One will always do well to question oneself and one's environmental and social "input". When life becomes "unbearable" and one discovers that what once worked just fine (seemingly) as a world-view or set of coping skills no longer results in positives/growth, but instead causes angst and despair and loss of 'ability to function' comfortably and successfully (a subjective measurement), it is time to review one's worldview.

Excellent post.
S/F

reply to post by wildtimes


Agreed, absolutely. Sometimes it can be really helpful to ask yourself in whose voice do you hear a certain phrase (as your thought) being said, or who springs to mind when you have a particular thought. Unpicking our personal narrative is a lifelong job, I guess.

.......on the other hand...

... dont get trapped chasing your own tail. it really is a bottomless expanse.

better to just keep your eyes on the road.

Astyanax
Are all men not mortal?

Yes, all men are currently mortal. But that doesn't mean they will forever be.

Aphorism
I'm not sure I quite understand how conditioning makes us victims. What kind of enemy is conditioning that it makes us victims of it? Who conditions who? Who allows us to be conditioned? Who is leading us lambs to sacrifice? The individual is not a victim. He is that enemy.

I believe it makes us victims because it significantly narrows the chance we can form opinions that are free of some type of external influence. This can be both a positive and negative thing. Being conditioned to fear heat is a good thing otherwise we might put our lives in danger by getting too close to a flame. Being conditioned to hate people with opposing ideological views is less helpful as it narrows our thinking and limits understanding of the opposing position.

Usually it is those in positions of authority (government, police, media, parents etc.) whom condition those under their control to think and act in certain ways. Like I said before, this can be both positive and negative, but my issue in the opening post is with negative external conditioning. Of course, determining which type is which is in the eye of the beholder.