Controversy Over 5th-Grader’s Religion Speech

Isn't this a scrummy tidbit?
A 5th grade student wins a regional contest with an essay claiming that religion is being used to justify murder in the world and it needs to stop.
5th grade?
I applaude this young man.
That's fantastic news...but the school didn't think so.
They stripped him of his ribbon.
Embarassed the child in front of his peers and marginalized his "award winning" efforts.
They reduced the boy to tears for daring to speak the truth.
Why?
Because he actually understands it?

“She started talking to me about how she thought my speech wasn’t appropriate for 4th and 5th graders and she thought that probably I would have to rewrite my speech, take the religion out or not compete,”

This is deplorable and utterly dispicable.
Go against the will of the flock and you will be punished.
Leading the world in bullying, ignorance and intolerance since 0 anno dominae.
Like it isn't bad enough that the church ruins their lives, now they have to ruin their education too and make sure they finish the job?
Way to go Christianity...take a bow!

tampa.cbslocal.com...

-Peace-

reply to post by Eryiedes


Freedom of the press and freedom of speech trump school policy. I'd say to the kid "Go grab that ribbon back, with no apologies".

Hopefully some school personnel stand with him. A memory: As a kid I was going to a school pet show, and picked up a grasshopper along the way, made it my entry, and won a blue ribbon for "Greenest Grasshopper".

reply to post by Eryiedes


I feel sorry for that boy. It must have taken him so much courage to give his speech, and then to be this humiliated is disgusting!

He is way ahead of his time.

Eryiedes
Isn't this Way to go Christianity...take a bow!

tampa.cbslocal.com...

-Peace-

the article you linked actually says this was nothing to do with religion but with the mass murder aspect.
But even if it was, why are you claming all of christianity for the the choices of one teacher in a school.
Was she even Christian, or just someone worried about offending other people?

This is one of those times where it is important to read the article instead of assuming that religion is to be blamed. The point of contention is with the discussion of mass murder in front of 4th and 5th graders? There's a difference between expounding on the moral implications of philosophies condoning or encouraging such actions, and playing a slideshow full of riots and beheadings. This is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

reply to post by WilsonWilson


“She started talking to me about how she thought my speech wasn’t appropriate for 4th and 5th graders and she thought that probably I would have to rewrite my speech, take the religion out or not compete,”

Taken directly from the article...so now I ask you:

"What on Earth are you talking about?"

-Peace-

Eryiedes
reply to post by WilsonWilson

 

“She started talking to me about how she thought my speech wasn’t appropriate for 4th and 5th graders and she thought that probably I would have to rewrite my speech, take the religion out or not compete,”

Taken directly from the article...so now I ask you:

"What on Earth are you talking about?"

-Peace-

Separation of church and state. We shouldn't be mentioning religion in schools--or is it only cool to have anti religion in schools but not pro religion in schools?

Eryiedes
Isn't this a scrummy tidbit?


This is deplorable and utterly dispicable.
Go against the will of the flock and you will be punished.
Leading the world in bullying, ignorance and intolerance since 0 anno dominae.
Like it isn't bad enough that the church ruins their lives, now they have to ruin their education too and make sure they finish the job?
Way to go Christianity...take a bow!

tampa.cbslocal.com...

-Peace-

Heck my son came home from school the other day telling me they are not allowed to use the word god in class. Not that anyone was preaching mind you. Some kid said "oh god" and the teacher gave them all a lecture and told them they couldn't use that word in a public school.

Why to go speech and thought police! Politically correct overreachers!

Oh yea they couldn't call their club the "wolf pack" because it was to violent. Can we say "another brick in the wall".

Genghis Khan was religious? From what i read, he was philosopher who took good ideas from every parts of the world.

9/11 is obviously debatable but i don't think a 5th grader is actually going to research much about it.

Crusades is however, could be religious.


There is better stuff he could have used as an example.

5th Grader using such topics.. definitely had outside help or influence.

NavyDoc

Eryiedes
reply to post by WilsonWilson

 

“She started talking to me about how she thought my speech wasn’t appropriate for 4th and 5th graders and she thought that probably I would have to rewrite my speech, take the religion out or not compete,”

Taken directly from the article...so now I ask you:

"What on Earth are you talking about?"

-Peace-

Separation of church and state. We shouldn't be mentioning religion in schools--or is it only cool to have anti religion in schools but not pro religion in schools?

Well yea. A lot of it is purely and simply anti religion namely anti christian hiding behind the mask of one sort of thing or another. They don't mind so much when parents of christian persuasion write those big fat tax checks every year to fund the monkey show.

Logarock

NavyDoc

Eryiedes
reply to post by WilsonWilson

 

“She started talking to me about how she thought my speech wasn’t appropriate for 4th and 5th graders and she thought that probably I would have to rewrite my speech, take the religion out or not compete,”

Taken directly from the article...so now I ask you:

"What on Earth are you talking about?"

-Peace-

Separation of church and state. We shouldn't be mentioning religion in schools--or is it only cool to have anti religion in schools but not pro religion in schools?

Well yea. A lot of it is purely and simply anti religion namely anti christian hiding behind the mask of one sort of thing or another. They don't mind so much when parents of christian persuasion write those big fat tax checks every year to fund the monkey show.

Shrug, if it was a pro-religious speech, the very same members that are angry that he got shut down would be calling for him to be shut down, citing separation of church and state. If it is wrong for a pro-religious message to be in a school, then it is just as wrong for an anti-religious message to be in school. Either both are acceptable or neither are.

NavyDoc
Separation of church and state. We shouldn't be mentioning religion in schools--or is it only cool to have anti religion in schools but not pro religion in schools?

No sir.
You are confusing administrative duties with the educational proclivities of the students.
It's not the school boards place to make this distinction and anyone who did needs to be fired...post haste.

-Peace-

AfterInfinity
This is one of those times where it is important to read the article instead of assuming that religion is to be blamed. The point of contention is with the discussion of mass murder in front of 4th and 5th graders? There's a difference between expounding on the moral implications of philosophies condoning or encouraging such actions, and playing a slideshow full of riots and beheadings. This is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

edit on 16-12-2013 by AfterInfinity because: (no reason given)

I disagree and think this was just back peddling to try and save some face.

She first told the kid to take the religion out not the mass murder.
And anyway, its not like he was talking about Charles Manson or giving gruesome details, it seems he was discussing factual and important historical events.

How old are 5th graders that teachers think they need to be shielded from the fact people kill other people? Its on the news every day for christ sakes.

I wonder if someone gave a speech on the troops if she would have also censored that, the US military are up there with the worst mindless mass murderers of all time

reply to post by Eryiedes


What does the article have to do with Christianity? There are no specifics in the article whatsoever. So where do you get off blaming one specific religion? The boys speech was clearly about "religion" in general. There is nothing in the article that says he was blaming specifically Christianity. Did you hear the speech? Then how did you make that judgement? I'm interested in the script itself to see what points were made. Alot of good ones, I'm sure...but more than likely based off largely accusations and pointing the blame at a religion, when it should be pointed at a politician or ruler of the time. People have no idea that it was never the religion itself that caused the mayhem, but rather the person in charge at the time, trying to further an empire by conquest, and claiming "its all in the name of (insert religion here)."

Besides the point, what 4th and 5th grader wants to hear or talk about this particular subject anyways? Does anyone here have a 10 or 11 year old? Ever talk to them about this particular subject? Doesn't go over very well, does it? They more than likely don't care/know about the subject in it's entirety, or even have enough knowledge to make a firm decision about it. Let alone make a speech.

I cry foul here. Someone else may have influenced this boys speech. I have a hard time believing he wrote the entire thing, and brought this is to win a contest sponsored by a large corporation. Something smells fishy here...we were all young once and I can bet not a single one of us had those thoughts in mind when carrying on a speech.

reply to post by havok


Cry out with all the righteous indignation that you can muster.
It still won't change the facts.

-Peace-

Shrug, if it was a pro-religious speech, the very same members that are angry that he got shut down would be calling for him to be shut down, citing separation of church and state. If it is wrong for a pro-religious message to be in a school, then it is just as wrong for an anti-religious message to be in school. Either both are acceptable or neither are.

I cant speak for everyone but I wouldnt be calling for him to be shut down if it was pro religious.
If he had of just got up there and quoted bible verses like it was the be all and end all I would have been saddened but if he was pro religious and used his own words and mind to express himself I would have been fine with it.

A child being given free reign to pick a topic to talk on and a school shoving religious propaganda down the throats of impressionable children are completely different things

NavyDoc

Logarock

NavyDoc

Eryiedes
reply to post by WilsonWilson

 

“She started talking to me about how she thought my speech wasn’t appropriate for 4th and 5th graders and she thought that probably I would have to rewrite my speech, take the religion out or not compete,”

Taken directly from the article...so now I ask you:

"What on Earth are you talking about?"

-Peace-

Separation of church and state. We shouldn't be mentioning religion in schools--or is it only cool to have anti religion in schools but not pro religion in schools?

Well yea. A lot of it is purely and simply anti religion namely anti christian hiding behind the mask of one sort of thing or another. They don't mind so much when parents of christian persuasion write those big fat tax checks every year to fund the monkey show.

Shrug, if it was a pro-religious speech, the very same members that are angry that he got shut down would be calling for him to be shut down, citing separation of church and state. If it is wrong for a pro-religious message to be in a school, then it is just as wrong for an anti-religious message to be in school. Either both are acceptable or neither are.

I hear you. My opinion is that if he would have kept it to criticizing the crusades as an example of religion being used to justify war.....they wouldn't have said anything. Our culture is all conditioned up on that. No problem. Whos going to disagree with bashing the crusades?

But using 911 as an example of Muslim intolerance just wont fly.

He told her that he would need to think about it at home. There is a brief paragraph on the Crusades, Genghis Khan and the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11 in his speech. He ends it by encouraging the “Golden Rule,” saying that it would “make the world a better place.”

I will bet anything if he had restricted his application of the golden rule to the Crusades there would be no problem.

Eryiedes
reply to post by havok

 

Cry out with all the righteous indignation that you can muster.
It still won't change the facts.

-Peace-

They are your "facts"? Huh?
Indignation from what? Your hatred of Christianity or religion?
I care less for either. I want truth, not someones biased opinion and I'm not starting an argument. I am legitimately looking for where Christianity was mentioned...


Like Twain said long ago...
"Get your facts first then you can distort them as you please."

reply to post by havok


So, pretend it didn't happen if it makes you & your god feel better.
It still won't change reality.

-Peace-