NSA Can't Investigate Extent of Snowden's Leaks, Because Lack of Surveillance Ability

From today's New York Times:

Investigators remain in the dark about the extent of the data breach partly because the N.S.A. facility in Hawaii where Mr. Snowden worked — unlike other N.S.A. facilities — was not equipped with up-to-date software that allows the spy agency to monitor which corners of its vast computer landscape its employees are navigating at any given time.

Six months since the investigation began, officials said Mr. Snowden had further covered his tracks by logging into classified systems using the passwords of other security agency employees, as well as by hacking firewalls installed to limit access to certain parts of the system.

“They’ve spent hundreds and hundreds of man-hours trying to reconstruct everything he has gotten, and they still don’t know all of what he took,” a senior administration official said. “I know that seems crazy, but everything with this is crazy.”

NY Times link

Sorta kinda like, the Pentagon can't protect its own headquarters even with over an hour's notice, because, 'what anti-aircraft missile batteries?'

One truly has to wonder if the MIC has all gotten so big and expensive, it just trips over its own shoelaces, over and over and over again.

reply to post by signalfire


Even Snowden is, in an extant, crazy. He himself didn't even know what he took but he published (through the Guardian) it anyway. What if he published (through the Guardian) the private info of innocent citizens? Or security codes for nuclear weapons? The guy didn't even know what the heck he stole.

I know I will get flamed for saying this, but I don't think he's an hero at all. Smells too much like a fifth column to me - it happened before, it can happen again.

I just feel he's either incredibly genius, or incredibly insane. Or, more likely, he may be acting under orders of someone else (and taking the heat instead of this someone else).

reply to post by swanne


Snowden didn't publish anything. He gave it to the Guardian, who are/were vetting everything very carefully to make sure that no operatives' lives were put in jeopardy, etc. Now that the Guardian's offices have been raided and their computers smashed, I'm not sure who is doing the vetting, but it's not Snowden and probably not Greenwald.

But that's off-topic. We've now been told by top sources that the NSA can't even investigate its own employee's activities while they're on the job...investigating us. Talk about Achille's heels. Add in that they apparently can run the computers at their new site in Utah, or the cooling equipment for the computers, but not both, and it's like the Keystone Cops with a few trillion to spend.

signalfire
reply to post by swanne

 

Snowden didn't publish anything. He gave it to the Guardian, who are/were vetting everything very carefully to make sure that no operatives' lives were put in jeopardy, etc.

I don't really trust newspaper with our privacy - all newspapers, even the Guardian, are in search of sensationalism. The new power in this world is not politics anymore, it's media - any political figure will fall if enough media effort influences the votes.

The Old Order has to fall for the New Order to come in. And the New Order must appear like the good guy, like rebels who fights the Bad governments with their honour. Marxism 101.

What if some leaked documents were fakes? There was such an occurrence in the past, with Quebec politics. The documents looked so real, it duped the government itself (see FLQ), let alone the media. We see here an anomaly: the NSA supposedly can see everything, but also has low level of surveillance on its own side. Perhaps the answer lies in the possibility that its overall power was slightly... exaggerated?

reply to post by signalfire


Well it is ran by these same two people in this 2002 video. Fast forward to 8:30.



Police themselves because they are generally honest?

Now here is another video.



Ebay had a policy of squashing bad press about crimes on Ebay. Which included attacking the victim and even suing them for bad press.

So who is trying to fix the NSA mess with HP Meg Whitman tied to the leaks? Her old partner from Ebay he is buying off Greenwald with the documents.

And if you want a good read that will point out some of the things nobody is supposed to know about. Read this.

cryptome.org...

Here is another good article.

www.blacklistednews.com... 8/38/Y/M.html

This leads me to the classic questions of: is ignorance really bliss?

Would we have been better off not knowing the information that was released because of him?

Same thing with Manning - Because of his work, the public was able to see the true apathy of United States soldiers in a certain situation. You may know of the one I'm specifically talking about - if not, look it up, it's pretty brutal. Would the masses be better off without knowing this information?

Don't you feel we have a right to transparency - not sensationalism and half-truths?

CosmaAndromeda
Would we have been better off not knowing the information that was released because of him?

What's to know? That in a war, soldiers are killed? I already know that.

So far all these leaks changed nothing, just helped to make the people really angry and anti-american. And as far as we know, some of these leaks could be fakes - it already happened in the very recent past. Maybe it should stop being leaked to a public which is doing nothing about it (just sitting in front of the TV and boiling inside), and instead start being leaked to an assembly of court judges/PIs which CAN investigate and actually do something. Or maybe both: Leak the thing to the judges, and open the case to the public. Maybe then the truth will actually have an impact.

swanne

CosmaAndromeda
Would we have been better off not knowing the information that was released because of him?

What's to know? That in a war, soldiers are killed? I already know that.

So far all these leaks changed nothing, just helped to make the people really angry and anti-american. And as far as we know, some of these leaks could be fakes - it already happened in the very recent past. Maybe it should stop being leaked to a public which is doing nothing about it (just sitting in front of the TV and boiling inside), and instead start being leaked to an assembly of court judges/PIs which CAN investigate and actually do something. Or maybe both: Leak the thing to the judges, and open the case to the public. Maybe then the truth will actually have an impact.

edit on 15-12-2013 by swanne because: (no reason given)

Soldiers are killed, yes. How about innocent civilians- children even, by United States troops and others, and for what? Let's not forget the reason the war in the middle-east was started was false information about supposed "weapons of mass destruction" which were never recovered.

I hate to be cynical (some may even say a realist) but nine times out of ten the individuals or group who claim to make a change typically don't, I would think it would be up to us.

As for most people sitting around the TV, boiling inside - That's an understandable statement. There are some of us that take the time and educate others, and try to share information. It is up to us as individuals, and thus us as humans to speak up for such atrocities. The question is, how are we to do this when most truths are glossed over or covered up?

Believe me, there was an overwhelming amount of people "Anti-American" even before these instances - with good reason.

I also would request an example of "leaked" information by either of these two gentlemen or which turned out to be false. Fox news doesn't apply (haha).

reply to post by CosmaAndromeda

Believe me, there was an overwhelming amount of people "Anti-American" even before these instances - with good reason.

Never miss a chance to bash America?

By the way people are pouring into our Country....I don't think everybody hates us.

whyamIhere
reply to post by CosmaAndromeda

 

Believe me, there was an overwhelming amount of people "Anti-American" even before these instances - with good reason.

Never miss a chance to bash America?

By the way people are pouring into our Country....I don't think everybody hates us.

I didn't state everybody.

The above statement wasn't intended to bash America - I'm being frank.
After all, we are the first nation to actually use nuclear weapons on humans - as opposed to testing.
We also have bases in more areas than most people think.
Just a couple examples on why America would leave a bitter taste in someone's mouth.

I would consider myself very much American but not in a consumerist or imperialist fashion.

CosmaAndromeda
I also would request an example of "leaked" information by either of these two gentlemen or which turned out to be false. Fox news doesn't apply (haha).

Google "Front de Liberation du Québec", check Wikipedia's entry, scroll down a bit.

A photocopy of the forged "CIA document" was "leaked" to the Montreal Star in September 1971. The operation was so successful that Canada's prime minister believed that the CIA had conducted operations in Canada.

en.wikipedia.org...

signalfire
reply to post by swanne

 

Snowden didn't publish anything. He gave it to the Guardian, who are/were vetting everything very carefully to make sure that no operatives' lives were put in jeopardy, etc.

And I'm sure the Guardian is completely trustworthy, and there is no danger at all that it has been penetrated by foreign intelligence agencies, nor is there any possibility that they could release something without understanding the full extent of the consequences. Because if there is anything at all British journalists are known for, it is their deep love of the US Intelligence Community, their rigorous security practices, and their strategic analysis of disclosure issues.

HAHA

How many Billions have been spent on the NSA

I mean my last place of work could do that

NSA = National stupidity Agency.

swanne

I don't really trust newspaper with our privacy -

But you trust the NSA? Ok then

reply to post by whyamIhere


Agreed, sick of all the bash America crap. Hey if you attack us or harbor or train those that do you will get what you have coming. It is OK for them to kill women and children and innocents but when it happens by accident from America it is the end of the world.

Collateral damage happens, at least we are not doing it on purpose. Oh and does that not happen occasionally yes. But what do you expect. These terrorist are evil incarnate, they cut the heads off people. What do expect to happen to normal people confronted with evil like this.

I don't think Snowden knew what he had. Maybe somewhere down in there we might have some answers, like why Kennedy was killed, the truth about ET, something like that lol.

I think calling him hero is bit much, but he is not the villain they make him out to be. He brought out their dirty little secret and now they have egg on their face. As far as the loophole that allowed it to happen you better believe it was plugged.

Listen as someone who had clearance and worked in DOD I can tell you some horror stories. These systems are vast. Take the biggest office you ever worked at and then multiply it by thousand fold. That is just one military installation or govt office. These systems are incredibly vast and all interconnected in one way or another.

In one place there maybe thousands of computers with miles and miles of network lines. Each computer may have multiple users and multiple clearance levels and each user has files there. One day they forget to logout and you have access to their data and their network, which could be connected to anywhere in the world.

Now you begin to see the problem and the issues we face with security. But, that should not give them the right to spy on the citizens of the United States. Everybody else well you are fair game lol....

Just kidding unless you are our enemy.

The Bot

reply to post by signalfire


What unmitigated nonsense.

They've monitored ALL electricity based circuits with literally acres of computers for more than 40 years.

That's like a drunk saying, after drinking 2--6 packs . . . that the reason he couldn't walk straight is because he didn't have enough beer.

What manipulative greedy tyrannical bustards they exalt in being.

swanne

signalfire
reply to post by swanne

 

Snowden didn't publish anything. He gave it to the Guardian, who are/were vetting everything very carefully to make sure that no operatives' lives were put in jeopardy, etc.

I don't really trust newspaper with our privacy - all newspapers, even the Guardian, are in search of sensationalism. The new power in this world is not politics anymore, it's media - any political figure will fall if enough media effort influences the votes.

The Old Order has to fall for the New Order to come in. And the New Order must appear like the good guy, like rebels who fights the Bad governments with their honour. Marxism 101.

What if some leaked documents were fakes? There was such an occurrence in the past, with Quebec politics. The documents looked so real, it duped the government itself (see FLQ), let alone the media. We see here an anomaly: the NSA supposedly can see everything, but also has low level of surveillance on its own side. Perhaps the answer lies in the possibility that its overall power was slightly... exaggerated?

edit on 15-12-2013 by swanne because: (no reason given)

Swanne I have a flash for you. privacy! That is yesterday. NDAA took care of that word. Their has been no private info in this former capitalist country since Slick willy was in office. If you think you have any of that. Just go ask LIFE LOCK. They can get everything ever written down about you in just a matter of a couple days. Sorry dude we the people are not privileged of that right. Just my humble opinion.