Hypocrisy on both sides of the political fence

As always, mods please move if this is in the wrong area

I'll make this brief but as poignant as I can

I haven't been here in a while but to those who remember me it is no secret I am a hardcore left winger. Socialist in fact...but I have a real problem with well most people on BOTH sides who argue politics

It isn't that they blame the other side. I think that's natural because let's be honest here...

Bush, Obama, Carter, Reagan, blah blah blah...they've all screwed us some way or another.

No this isn't my problem. My problem is this magical force field the pundits, trolls, flamers, or even genuine supporters of a party seem to have during their argument.

Simply put, I am sick and tired of members on each side telling the other how they are blind sheep and followers and accuse each other of misdoings and seem completely blind themselves to the fact that their own supporters do the EXACT SAME THING

Some examples I absolutely love (see also: loathe)

The right accuse Obama supporters of voting for him because he was black. Right because their is now way there weren't conservative supporters who specifically didn't vote for him because he was black

Or let's pick on my own side here

"GWB lied about everything and you're stupid for believing his BS" Right, because Obama is squeaky clean and we must blindly follow his every word

I get really tired of the supporters on each side telling the other side how hypocritical they are when they are being EXACTLY as hypocritical as those they accuse

Don't star or flag this. I am not looking for accolades. All I am saying is look in a friggin mirror when you post how the 'other' side is acting poorly...because I can guarantee you your side (maybe even you) is acting the same way

It's so blatantly obvious...hell I've even been guilty of it in the past but I am choosing now to grow up and start looking at the world as a real entity with patent hypocrisy in each seedy corner of politics

I may be a Socialist but come on am I really stupid enough to think that there aren't staunch Social Reform supporters who aren't full of utter crap?

Guess what folks, each side sucks

That's my stand

Somewhat true, but as a right leaning American, I smell a lot of crap.... The real problem lies in washington, we must fire every one of them, all of them, for the pending crash and burn of the once great country. Just today the glorious government sold a stake in GM for a 10 Billion dollar loss. the loss was taxpayer money so bailout someone else quick. We are being sold out bit by bit, losing freedoms, little by little, chipped away at till there is......nothing.

reply to post by KyoZero


While not really a 'leaner', I agree with you. The substance of most partisan arguments is non-existent. It's all theater. I guess that is what most Americans get into. He-said, she said sort of stuff.

I would really love to know why. With so many significantly risky issues out there facing this nation, why does the lure of nonsense misdirect so many? We can call them sheep. We can call them stupid. In the end, I am not sure it matters.

The problem is that there isn't much of what passes for intelligent discussion or actual intelligent decision making that goes on the nation these days.

I do actually know of at least one person who may actually have voted for Obama because of the "historic" nature of the act, in other words, because of his skin color ... oh, and because he wasn't Bush and an evil Republican. I would normally give people more of the benefit of the doubt, but that's about the average level of this person's discourse.

I also have some relatives, dad's sister, her husband, their daughter, who proudly support Obama even to this day. For them, I think it's more to do with him being part of "their team," but since I rarely interact with them on a meaningful level, I don't know for sure. I do know my uncle-in-law is in the media though.

I have a relative on my husband's side who wouldn't have anything to do with Romney for religious reasons and sat it out.

Most things really don't get beyond that level for a lot of people. Likely more than you realize.

How about the right give us some decent candidates?

How many republicans on here really backed McCain or Romney wih a straight face?

Oh, thats right there are no republicans on ATS we are all "Libertarians".

reply to post by KyoZero


I was once where you are. I found the anger and frustration only hurt me and all of us. Then I found that seeing the virtue in the positions of others helped me understand the flaws in my own positions and to have more respect and appreciation for different perspectives. For example, I can appreciate both the war hawk who is willing to risk life and limb to protect the innocent; and I can appreciate the war dove who thinks war is always the absolute last resort (if ever). But "truth" lies somewhere in the middle of the extremes.

It isn't fixing the world's problems, but it does help me deal with the world in a more positive manner. And maybe -- just maybe! -- one day enough people will see where our present path has taken us and look for new answers.

reply to post by Boadicea


Well, there isn't any point in getting angry about it. If you get angry when you're talking about it, then you don't take the time to try to see where the other side is.

Every so often, you find that one person who is able to articulate the opposing view in a novel way that makes you see things in a slightly different light and re-evaluate what you thought before. I admit that I'm getting to that age where it's getting harder and harder to find an opposing viewpoint I haven't seen before, but they still exist, so I keep looking.

The real key is to approach things with the idea that you aren't going to change anyone. You're there to understand them, not change them. Sometimes, you can find a middle ground where you both can agree and work out from there. But usually, you're going to have to agree to disagree in the main and carry on from that point.

ketsuko
reply to post by Boadicea

 

Well, there isn't any point in getting angry about it. If you get angry when you're talking about it, then you don't take the time to try to see where the other side is.

Exactly. Anger is sometimes the appropriate response, but not in discussions. I now reserve my anger for the critters who put the rest of us into this mess, not my fellow Americans, who are just doing the best they can under the same duress.

ketsuko

Every so often, you find that one person who is able to articulate the opposing view in a novel way that makes you see things in a slightly different light and re-evaluate what you thought before. I admit that I'm getting to that age where it's getting harder and harder to find an opposing viewpoint I haven't seen before, but they still exist, so I keep looking.

Yes, I thought I had heard it all, but realized that I really wasn't listening. "Let those who have ears hear..." I knew all the arguments, but I never allowed myself to understand all the arguments, how people came to the conclusions they did based on THEIR experiences -- not MINE... their hopes and fears -- not MINE. I never saw the virtue they saw, only the virtue I saw... I guess for me it was about expanding my perspective to include the perspective and experience of others. More so, to honor and respect their perspective. That's freedom.

ketsuko

The real key is to approach things with the idea that you aren't going to change anyone. You're there to understand them, not change them. Sometimes, you can find a middle ground where you both can agree and work out from there. But usually, you're going to have to agree to disagree in the main and carry on from that point.

The older I get, the more I know that I don't know. I don't even hope to change anyone except myself. But maybe thru dialogue, opposing opinions can find that middle ground, and find a way to solve problems in the best interests of all. No one will get everything they want, but hopefully we can all get what we need. And if we can be a thorn in the side of the NSA and the PTB at the same time, so much the better!

I love your posts, Ketsuko. I don't always agree, but you express your thoughts so well that I always appreciate what you post

reply to post by KyoZero


We can all agree that politicians are the slime that people scrape off the bottoms of their shoes. That being said they also have about half the intelligence of regular slime. If there's one thing I've learned from being on this planet is that politicians cannot be trusted regardless of their stripe/leanings.

Boadicea


The older I get, the more I know that I don't know. I don't even hope to change anyone except myself. But maybe thru dialogue, opposing opinions can find that middle ground, and find a way to solve problems in the best interests of all. No one will get everything they want, but hopefully we can all get what we need. And if we can be a thorn in the side of the NSA and the PTB at the same time, so much the better!

That is ever so true. I admit that I still have what some would deem extremist views and yeah the hypocrisy on both sides gets to me. What do they say about the first step? Admitting a problem? Well that's me

Maybe this is a turning point for me. Maybe it's time for me to start looking on both sides and finding some middle ground. I guess I am still at a point, albeit late, that I am just so tired of it.

What do I do? I am hitting the point in life where I am starting to realise I don't know jack...but it's hard to get past ego isn't it

reply to post by KyoZero


While i tend to agree with you .. I call your bluff. This thread is simply a way to deflect any blame on 'your team'. Obama is the current president presiding over this failing nation.

In my part .. we call those traitors. ALL of them, including the supporters.

KyoZero

...I admit that I still have what some would deem extremist views and yeah the hypocrisy on both sides gets to me.

Extremist views aren't necessarily all bad, especially when we understand that we can only demand it for ourselves. I think the problem comes when we expect others to do the same. This may be exactly why we have the Republic that we do. The founding fathers argued quite a bit and often quite bitterly. For example, the needs and wants of the extreme north are very different than the needs and wants of the extreme south, so it makes sense that each would have extreme positions on certain issues. No doubt religion would have been another contentious issue. Hence, in coming together to form the Republic, they found the best option is to give each state -- and each person -- as much self-determination and personal sovereignty as possible. I know this doesn't help solve all our problems, but it at least helps me understand the dynamics a little better.

KyoZero

What do they say about the first step? Admitting a problem? Well that's me
Maybe this is a turning point for me. Maybe it's time for me to start looking on both sides and finding some middle ground. I guess I am still at a point, albeit late, that I am just so tired of it.

I like to think that we're all coming to that point -- from whatever outlier point we may be. No matter where we fall on the political philosophy spectrum, we all realize that what we have now is crap and is hurting pretty much everyone (except the ones inflicting the pain and chaos). Few are even happy with their own party's leadership. Maybe this is exactly the slap in the head we needed to see how important for us to work together and take care of each other, put our efforts into the common good and keeping us free to feed our own souls how we see fit, because the ones calling the shots don't give a hoot about any of us.

KyoZero
...but it's hard to get past ego isn't it

Ah yes! That pesky ego!!! I'm still working on that myself. Of course, ATS sure has a way to keep one humble, eh?

LeoStarchild
This thread is simply a way to deflect any blame on 'your team'. Obama is the current president presiding over this failing nation.

In my part .. we call those traitors. ALL of them, including the supporters.

edit on 11-12-2013 by LeoStarchild because: (no reason given)

If only that were true we wouldn't be in such a quagmire. Obama is just the public face. This has been a bi-partisan effort all the way. The "other" team has aided and abetted and enabled and empowered Obama every step of the way. The "other" team gave us the son of Alinsky's good friend and compatriot, who would have also continued the NDAA, MERS and fraudclosure, QE3, etc.

The traitors are everywhere and go by all kinds of names. I won't call those who support either miscreant traitors because I do not know what is in everyone's heart. But I do know that anyone still cheering for either team is either sadly misinformed... or a traitor.

reply to post by KyoZero


I don't fully support Republicans or Democrats. Currently I lean more heavily towards Republicans, but that is only because the Democrats are in the spotlight as the majority party. Once the roles are reversed, I'll probably come off as more heavily Democrat. But the fact is, I am neither. I'm a Libertarian and understand that neither the Democrat nor the Republican party are answers to the nation's problems and both should be dropped from our collective memory like bad habits. We need fresh blood in Washington. New political parties (get rid of all the nonsense preventing third parties from gaining a foothold), term limits in Congress (this should be a mantra repeated by every American until it goes into effect), tie Congressional pay and benefits to the budget (in other words if there is a significant deficit from year to year, it should come out of Congressmen's pay until they fix the deficit), end to lobbying, end to corporations are people (actually, let's dust off those anti-trust laws and start wacking some of these major corporations over the head with them and break them up), and those are just a few of things that need to be changed to fix this dysfunctional government.