Arrested Because He Joked About Mandela

reply to post by crazyewok


Deluding myself? Please....

The UK is the MODEL for BIG BROTHER.

Talk about delusion.

Swills
reply to post by crazyewok

 

Deluding myself? Please....

The UK is the MODEL for BIG BROTHER.

Talk about delusion.

Yes you are deluding yourself if you think the USA is the "land of the free" and hasnt got the same problems as the UK right now.

Im not denying that. We have problems, BIG ones.

But I have been to the states. It going the same way and faster. NewYork makes London seem like...well a very free place... I never felt more oppressed than new york and I hear from freinds in other citys its the same.

You have problems like us. Accept it and deal with it. Or you can keep sticking you fingers in your ears and humming the national athem while your country to goes to hell.

reply to post by crazyewok


I'm gonna keep going back and forth with you about whose country is better/worse but the fact is this is dumb (except for the making threats parts, that's I agree with),

5 Harassment, alarm or distress.
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he—
(a) uses threatening, abusive or insulting words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour, or
(b) displays any writing, sign or other visible representation which is threatening, abusive or insulting,

And that's all there is to it.

I'm done, but feel free to keep replying.

Swills


I'm gonna keep going back and forth with you about whose country is better/worse

Im think you missed my point. I wasnt saying the UK was better.

I was saying we are both in deep S***.

And yeah its a crap law you quoted. Its bad. And I can quote a few terrible US laws like the patriot act.

I knew the Daily Mail (or The Nazi Fail) was full of rubbish.
As this post below shows, digging around and actually finding things out, shows that this man was not arrested for "sick jokes" about Mandela at all.
But the Daily Mail being the scum they are, had to twist it that way and most of the people posting in the thread just start going on about free speech and the US consutution and just spouting off without realising that this man was NOT arrested for a Mandela joke.

alfa1

So I seem to be the only person that actually bothered READING the news article in question, before commenting on it.


He was one of two men interviewed oby police following a bitter, ill-tempered feud over plans for a mining memorial

The memorial dispute sank to new depths at a Rugeley Town Council meeting last week, when police ejected Mr Christopher.

He was enraged by public allegations that some of those involved in the miner's tribute were 'thugs and fascists'.
One council official admitted: 'It didn’t come to fisticuffs, but it was close.'


One was of a shocking image of decapitation, another featuring a wheelchair-bound individual, both posted by Mr Phillips.
He said: 'They are vile and deeply offensive, anti-Muslim, anti-disabled.'

Despite what the article says, I doubt (as you worded it) "posting a joke" had anything to do with being questioned by police. The issue goes MUCH deeper than that simple story.

edit on 9-12-2013 by alfa1 because: (no reason given)

reply to post by stargatetravels


Like I have stated, he was still arrested for his views on the internet. Anti disabled anti muslim, who cares his opinions/views are what he was arrested for so this does concern freedom of speech. Whats so difficult to understand?

As for the gun debate and the UK vs US feud which seems to have taken place, this is not the thread so i would appreciate it if you cease this please.


King

VoidHawk
Until we all stand up together and put a stop to this nonsense it will just continue to get worse, then when we decide we ought to do something it'll be too late.

Perhaps we can all post a tasteless joke about a current or former world leader. They can't arrest us ALL, right?

reply to post by kingears


Well actually there are laws regarding hate-speech & hate crimes so no, it's not just his harmless opinion.
Free speech and hate speech can't always coexist and you cannot just say anything any time you want and damn the consequences, words have consequences.
Making a joke and humor is one thing, abusing or discriminating and insulting based on sexuality, gender, race or religion is pretty much a no-no these days

reply to post by crazyewok


Your entire post is superficial and could easily be picked apart but you are right about one thing, America has lost many of it's guaranteed rights of late, actually for a little better than a decade but there is one thing you're missing.

If voting doesn't right the ship which it seems like it won't and if demands for regresses of grievances go unanswered or non-actioned then our founding documents give us the right, a natural right to use our second amendment rights to correct things as best we can as a last resort.

If you think that is extreme, think again. Our Constitution is Americas supreme law, it can not be undone by any other means than what the Constitution allows for. Should any government at any time in control of the United States operate willfully and openly against the Constitution then they cease to be a legitimate government. Ultimately and unfortunately, the remedy for that problem should all other avenues fail is direct resistance of tyranny through violence. Make no mistake, this is why the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution exists.

If you want to make an argument about governments becoming usurpatious, you can take that argument up with history because it's not I who came up with that idea, it is has been happening since the dawn of civilized man, it's not a conspiracy theory, it's historical fact.

And this post has everything to do with guns, every thread about tyranny does. Take this story for instance, what would you do to protest, what is the worry of the government to do something like this where you live? Obviously they do not fear an armed revolt, you don't have arms............. Where is the checks and balances and what leverage do you have to ensure this type of thing does not become rampant and expanded to violate even more of your "Tolerated allowances" I'd call them rights but that would be inaccurate, wouldn't it.

Helious
Your entire post is superficial and could easily be picked apart

Dont see how? Everything I said was fact:
1)) the US received invaulble aid in th form of Weapons/Ammo/Supplies from france that it wouldnt have survived without.
2) Someone will alway supply arms to a population in rebellion no matter what.

Helious
If voting doesn't right the ship which it seems like it won't and if demands for regresses of grievances go unanswered or non-actioned then our founding documents give us the right, a natural right to use our second amendment rights to correct things as best we can as a last resort.

Then why arent you doing it? Why are you just spouting rar rar nonsense online, go pick up your guns and do something. If you dont you may as well not have them. Least in the UK we have the balls to hold a good riot still.

Helious
If you think that is extreme, think again.

No not really. Id join you. Im sure as soon as the USA goes up in rebellion the UK will. Not much point if the UK does it alone as armed or not your goverment would intervene and back ours up to put us down.

Helious
Our Constitution is Americas supreme law, it can not be undone by any other means than what the Constitution allows for.

Well it seem to have aleady. Until you american grow a pair and stand up it will remain undone.

Helious
Should any government at any time in control of the United States operate willfully and openly against the Constitution then they cease to be a legitimate government.

That ship sailed over a decade ago with the patriot act.

Helious
Ultimately and unfortunately, the remedy for that problem should all other avenues fail is direct resistance of tyranny through violence. Make no mistake, this is why the 2nd Amendment to the Constitution exists.

Then why are you not takeing the streets with your guns? It should have been done like yesterday?

Helious
If you want to make an argument about governments becoming usurpatious, you can take that argument up with history because it's not I who came up with that idea, it is has been happening since the dawn of civilized man, it's not a conspiracy theory, it's historical fact.

Well duh.

Helious
Take this story for instance, what would you do to protest, what is the worry of the government to do something like this where you live?

The same as your forefathers did in the years building up to 1776. Peacefull protests,ramping up the pace to unarmed riots, the colonists didnt wake up one day and decide it would be fun to rebel, it was a slow build up. If the need arises to be armed?.....well someone always supplies were there is a demand.

Helious
Obviously they do not fear an armed revolt,

If they dont they are fools. History has shown a unarmed population can find itself armed very quickly if the need arises. May be a advantage, USA they expect a armed revolt our goverment (if they are as dumb as we think) wont, will be a nastly surprise when they find out how easy it is to actually supply someone with illegal arms.

Helious
you don't have arms.............

Nope. By choice actually, it really easy to get a illegal firearm in the UK surprisingly, but they are just not that popular, only the hard core gangsters buy them, the police found 100 AK47 dumped in a river near me cause the local crime bosses couldnt sell them. But if the times comes and a market appears illegal guns (which are the best in a revolt) will flood in like they always do. Infact Im betting Russia, China and Iran who would love a unstable west would supply the rebels with not just small arms but heavy weapons and some advisors to boot to train us, infact Im betting they have agents in the UK and USA on standbye now for that very reason.

Helious
Where is the checks and balances and what leverage do you have to ensure this type of thing does not become rampant and expanded to violate even more of your "Tolerated allowances" I'd call them rights but that would be inaccurate, wouldn't it.

Well the USA checks and balances dont seem to have fared any better so far.


Anyway what with this dick waveing anyway and finger pointing? We are both on the same side (IE hate our corrupt goverments) and both our countrys have the same problem. Rather than calling out who goverments worse or who can stand up the better we should be working together.

reply to post by crazyewok


The very reason the current manufactured boogeyman in America right now is "domestic terrorists" is because the federal government knows just how far they are operating from lawful guidelines. You're right, the Patriot Act in essence did remove our Constitutional protections but it did so not by lawful means, it did so by manipulation, shock and awe and conditioning , the kind of conditioning you can provide on a limitless fiat budget. One of the many reasons if not the biggest America finds itself in trillions of dollars in national debt.

This was done for a specific reason and that reason was to quell the inevitable unrest from American citizens in response to blatant and outright tyranny. The systems that are in place currently would have you branded a terrorist, dangerous and as an out of control anarchist should you cross one toe over the line. The media in America has become nothing more than political theater akin to North Korean style reporting and they would be just as quick to demonize true patriots as the federal government.

Should I just take to the street with my guns, you and I both know what would happen and I find that statement offensive personally, we are both smarter than that. In that same line of thinking, I think you knew what I was saying about resistance and guns and a revolution would be fought two ways, states vs states or a mass exodus of citizens unifying in civil disobedience, it would and should never involve individuals taking to the streets in acts of random and unassociated violence.

Congress can't even pass a budget, basically, the one thing the Constitution mandates they do and approval numbers for the congress and executive branch are at all time and fighting lows. America is a shambles right now, no argument there.

What is in store for America is yet to be seen, we are as bad off as we have ever been in our entire history as a country and if they do manage to take the guns from the American people my friend, it may not be Americans that suffer the most, it just may be, the rest of the world. You and I both have seen this direction before just not with this type of weaponry.

It's disgusting when you can be arrested for your opinion, no matter how stupid or smart that opinion is.


I think Voltaire said it best:

“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.”- Voltaire

Some other brilliant things he said, which I think apply here, is:

"It is dangerous to be right when the government is wrong."

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

"Common sense is not so common"

"We owe respect to the living. To the dead we owe only truth."

reply to post by kingears

i have never understood why nelson mandela is held in such admiration , the man was held in prison for such a long time when he could have been released years before he was ,

all he had to do was renounce violence , but he refused to do so .

reply to post by tom.farnhill


He did renounce violence when apartheid ended.
Fighting back isn't wrong, it's self defense.

reply to post by roguetechie

So the common core curricula that forces faculty and students to confront each other about their "white privilege" isn't persecution?

There are both good and bad aspects of Common Core. I happen to think that asking people to examine cultural issues is a good thing. White privilege exists, it's good to talk about it, it's not the only racial problem we face, white people are not the only people guilty of racism... however people generally aren't generally pulled over for being white, not arrested for minor crimes, nor prosecuted as frequently or harshly for the same crimes. Persecution? Nah. Apartheid is persecution.

It is uncomfortable as a white person to have a class discussion on white privilege, does that mean I should get angry about it, resent it? Why can't I use the opportunity to state racism isn't just a white problem and if I choose to take that opportunity why must I pretend that institutional racism by white people doesn't still exist? Why must I refuse to acknowledge that a good many white people are still racist and continue to pass it down through generations? I don't have white guilt, most of the white people I know aren't racist and don't look the other way when they see it in any form... I'm proud of my culture, proud of my ancestry. Getting knee jerk defense over the issue? Why should I? It had nothing to do with me, misdirected anger at me can't be resolved by me getting angry back, only with conversation.

So when a white male is more qualified than a black man and a mexican female and he isn't even CONSIDERED for the job or slot in a good school because he's WHITE he's not persecuted?

That so rarely happens above retail it's ridiculous to even try to use it as an argument. The old adage that women and minorities have to work twice as hard for half as much is still very much true. Spheres of influence and money are still very much dominated by white men, you'd have to be willfully ignorant to not know this.

Cool... well I guess I can unsaddle from all this white guilt I'm supposed to be carrying

White guilt is stupid. It's weak. It is a manifestation of a character flaw. It's also largely imaginary. Much like I said in what you quoted from my post further perpetuation of this white persecution myth. If the case is that the minorities you know do nothing but complain about white people then maybe you should tell them that bitching is just lazy and to go do something about it.

So yeah kali you're free to stick your head in the sand and only get mad when brown people are wronged or whatever it is your pet agenda is these days.

We've never agreed on much since we've known each other Rogue, when did you give up on being able to discuss things with people you disagree with and sink to dismissal and insult?

Some points.

1) The source, the "Daily Mail" is a UK newspaper, with an online presence, that is regarded as "The Daily Fail" in the UK, because they are well known for telling half truths in order to misrepresent facts, in order to serve their own political agenda. They aren't really considered credible by most people in the UK. We buy it, more to laugh at their obviously biased stories. Just like a child would buy a comic book.

2) The UK does not have any right of free speech. At all. Online or offline. What we have is a more realistic negative right to the freedom of expression. That means we can do, and say anything we want, provided it doesn't contravene established laws.

As an earlier poster pointed out. They weren't arrested for a joke about Nelson Mandela, but for something unrelated. The daily mail only published part of the facts and let you draw your own conclusions.

M'eh this country is still going to the dogs regardless of the technicalities of the actual offence he was arrested for.

Mods you can close this now if you want. I will not be making any further posts on this subject.

King

reply to post by alfa1


Exactly..

Despite being well-buried in the Daily Fail article, it is clear there was a larger dispute at work here over some memorial and it had been hijacked by Far Right extremists. There is definitely a lot more to the story than the Fail is letting on as they want to put their spin on it.

But, as is typical of ATS (and the holier than though US brigade), they don't bother to read the source, look for other sources or try to find out what actually happened, instead relying on a piece of shabby reporting by one of the worst rags in the country.

Metallicus
Didn't this occur in England?

England doesn't have the Bill of Rights or 1st amendment protection. Not that it means much in the US anymore either, but I assume they have different standards of 'free speech' in England and Europe.

We don't have the Bill of Rights? I think you need to go an educate yourself there fella - epic fail. I think you'll find we had one a good century before you did and you based yours on ours....