Carrying Out Orders Is Mind Control.

I have decided to put this thread in the Philosophy and Metaphysics forum because I am viewing this subject generally in terms of human behaviour, socially and psychologically. Please move Mods if there is a better forum.

I ask you my fellow members to consider this:

Whenever we do what another human being wants us to do as an order we are allowing ourselves to be controlled by another. In any situation where we are not allowed any course of action, but to follow and carry out the dictates of an external agency we are delivering ourselves into bondage. We can either choose to be mind controlled or sometimes it can be forced on us.

I offer you some examples:

Those who hijacked the planes and flew them into the towers had been indoctrinated to the point where they were prepared to die horribly and take many others with them for the sake of what they considered to be a holy act for Allah and all Muslims of the world.

In the military one is trained to obey orders without question. Soldiers have to do some horrible things when on active duty.

Thirdly, even I am mind controlled by an external source. As a follower of a Spiritual discipline I have willingly given myself over to carry out the wishes of another. They are indeed controlling me on a very deep level and this affects my behaviour and what decisions I make.

Observe your own existence and discover what aspects of your own behaviour and decision making are influenced by external agencies. The sources of control come in many forms; relationships, peer pressure, work duties, spiritual and religious doctrine, certain public and private societies and clubs. How much of your daily existence is controlled externally?

Can you now see how often we are controlled externally? It is surprisingly a huge part of everyone's life.

On this basis we can start to perhaps comprehend how these covert Mind Control Operations like MK Ultra, etc, could easily have met with much success. Humans are vulnerable to it and it is a big part of our every day lives. Pushed to the limits I am sure some pretty serious brainwashing can occur. As far as I can see the most effective ways to control somebody else is to have blackmailing evidence on them or to threaten them or their families. That is the control at its darkest.

I hope my philosophical musing here offers an interesting perspective to some members here interested in such studies. I would love to discuss this more here if anyone is interested.

Thank you for your time ATS members.

reply to post by Revolution9


Well, now after that the question you have to ask is "are we ever free?", and what does it mean to be free ? What is free-will, and does that even exist ? We are always under some pressure of some kind, because there is always something or someone around us. There is always an environment. So depending on your definition of "being free", the answer to "are we ever free?" can be yes or no.

gosseyn
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Well, now after that the question you have to ask is "are we ever free?", and what does it mean to be free ? What is free-will, and does that even exist ? We are always under some pressure of some kind, because there is always something or someone around us. There is always an environment. So depending on your definition of "being free", the answer to "are we ever free?" can be yes or no.

Exactly, are we ever free?

We are indeed 100% free to do anything within the laws of physics and possibility. What controls us is the external forces of consequences. We learn about consequences very early on in life. PAIN is the controlling factor. The reasoning is that if you do certain actions they bring painful consequences now or in the future. In education we are threatened that if we do not succeed our lives will not be as comfortable and others will not have as much respect for us.

PAIN controls much of our behaviour. Later we make other choices of what agents we choose to be an external influence on our behaviour. As an example I follow a Teacher. The main reason I do this is because my life is better for me and less painful. Experience has taught me that an external source of control is doing a better job at governing my life than I could do myself. As a result my behaviour towards myself and others is better than it would be with me at the helm with no Counsellor.

Yup, I am a subject of mind control. The cat wants me to build a fire in the cookstove. The wife wants me to make soup today. I am the remote starter and robot that scrapes the frost and snow on the wife's car in the morning before the wife goes to work.

Mind control is not always bad. If you defy it and do not do what you are told sometimes, it negatively effects your life. You get fired from work if you do not do what you are hired to do. You must show progress in what you do to get ahead in society or you are not accepted as well. Society usually structures mind control to some extent. Society is off tilt though, the rules are not always sensible.

S&F for the thread. Remember though that not all mind control is bad, some is necessary.

rickymouse
Yup, I am a subject of mind control. The cat wants me to build a fire in the cookstove. The wife wants me to make soup today. I am the remote starter and robot that scrapes the frost and snow on the wife's car in the morning before the wife goes to work.

Mind control is not always bad. If you defy it and do not do what you are told sometimes, it negatively effects your life. You get fired from work if you do not do what you are hired to do. You must show progress in what you do to get ahead in society or you are not accepted as well. Society usually structures mind control to some extent. Society is off tilt though, the rules are not always sensible.

S&F for the thread. Remember though that not all mind control is bad, some is necessary.

Thanks! That's a great humorous response and makes some great points. It's quite staggering how much we do for the sake of others. It is the very glue of a society to have control mechanisms. In this modern age these mechanisms are manifold. I think it is a good idea to be aware of this.

Again the pain of consequence comes through in your reply. If we don't do that, then the consequences will be bad for us and those we care about.

Be sure these intangibles exist. You cannot see them or feel them. There are entities of control that we manifest in group behaviour that are fuelled by us all as long as we perpetuate their significance and existence.

I stopped reading at hijacked planes.
Firepiston

Psychologically it is inbuilt as part of the herd mechanism and familial commitments.The stinger is that it has been misused and abused by certain organisations as governments and unscrupulous factions and companies for a very long time, humanity is now socially conditioned into acceptance.

Waking up to this and realising there are few real ways of throwing the shackles long term is something that is happening more and more. Global consciousness should lead to Global conscience and perhaps from there, real progress will be made in ensuring true order and truth becomes a focus as does the family unit and societal integration.

All should have a place, doing something that is worthwhile and relevant and all should adhere to certain human codes of conduct. Until universal basic codes of behaviour and ethics are ascertained and adhered to then the best we can do is have individual morals, as well as national morals and ethics.

As for certain nations and peoples lacking those, who knows how that can be solved, save for a game changing event like aliens flying the skies in broad daylight for all to see, or something of such nature.

FirePiston
I stopped reading at hijacked planes.
Firepiston

I would hope you might read on. That is just an example. I am not asking you to believe anything here.

However, now you can see how ideas can be slipped in on a sublime level. That info slipped into a thread about another subject would have gone straight through into the unconscious of some readers here and been a valuable psychological bolstering tool to encourage a perception of hijacked planes.

You reacted to that because you have an already formed alternative perception of those events. Others have informed you as you cannot claim to know first hand what happened there in truth. They have controlled your perception of those events. I am in the same position because I was not there either and I have allowed others to control my perception of events.

See how vulnerable we both are?

The question is- what do most mean when they use the term?

I think many (including myself) will use that term when refering to an unwilling influence or subconscious manipulation- an exterior agent influence which manipulates me to take actions or have behaviors that are against my own will or intent.

If I want to learn how to do a discipline or art of some sort and seek the guidance of a professional, I have willingly chosen to temporarily project my will upon them- to relate to them as if they are my internal guide, and obey them as such. I have chosen that, I know why, I know when, and will consciously take back that projection as the integration of knowledge and experience is achieved.

We have, in those cases, an agreement between us for this exchange.

On the other hand, the sorts of control or influence which seeks to "detour" my conscious choice and will, and hijack my internal guide in a way which is not agreed upon consciously, I do not like and will try to percieve and avoid when I can.

I can be open to all kinds of exchanges, if mutual respect is part of the underlying agreement.

reply to post by Revolution9


Yes yes. Vulnerability. It is a double edged sword. You are vulnerable if you dont do what is expected of you and if you are ill informed then you are vulnerable to be taken advantage of. This i think is why we search so hard for the truth and why some cling to the ideas that they have.

This is a great thread.

reply to post by theabsolutetruth


Thank you for that informative addition. It's very refreshing to appreciate your perspective.

I think what you are suggesting is that we will evolve to a level where abusive control is no longer part of our collective psyche. Roll on that day of World Consciousness!

Stay awake my friend, you're shining bright.

reply to post by Revolution9


Sorry to interupt. But what do you mean by world conscience?

Woodcarver
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Yes yes. Vulnerability. It is a double edged sword. You are vulnerable if you dont do what is expected of you and if you are ill informed then you are vulnerable to be taken advantage of. This i think is why we search so hard for the truth and why some cling to the ideas that they have.

This is a great thread.

For you it is a great thread. For me this learning experience is happening right now. It was just a lucid moment in consciousness. I am so glad that I have been able to share something with you that has triggered any awareness.

I only bothered writing this because I had the notion that it might be of use to one or two others. You have just crowned this thread and made it all worth while in terms of communication.

Revolution9
I have decided to put this thread in the Philosophy and Metaphysics forum because I am viewing this subject generally in terms of human behaviour, socially and psychologically. Please move Mods if there is a better forum.

I ask you my fellow members to consider this:

Whenever we do what another human being wants us to do as an order we are allowing ourselves to be controlled by another. In any situation where we are not allowed any course of action, but to follow and carry out the dictates of an external agency we are delivering ourselves into bondage. We can either choose to be mind controlled or sometimes it can be forced on us.

I offer you some examples:

Those who hijacked the planes and flew them into the towers had been indoctrinated to the point where they were prepared to die horribly and take many others with them for the sake of what they considered to be a holy act for Allah and all Muslims of the world.

In the military one is trained to obey orders without question. Soldiers have to do some horrible things when on active duty.

Thirdly, even I am mind controlled by an external source. As a follower of a Spiritual discipline I have willingly given myself over to carry out the wishes of another. They are indeed controlling me on a very deep level and this affects my behaviour and what decisions I make.

Observe your own existence and discover what aspects of your own behaviour and decision making are influenced by external agencies. The sources of control come in many forms; relationships, peer pressure, work duties, spiritual and religious doctrine, certain public and private societies and clubs. How much of your daily existence is controlled externally?

Can you now see how often we are controlled externally? It is surprisingly a huge part of everyone's life.

On this basis we can start to perhaps comprehend how these covert Mind Control Operations like MK Ultra, etc, could easily have met with much success. Humans are vulnerable to it and it is a big part of our every day lives. Pushed to the limits I am sure some pretty serious brainwashing can occur. As far as I can see the most effective ways to control somebody else is to have blackmailing evidence on them or to threaten them or their families. That is the control at its darkest.

I hope my philosophical musing here offers an interesting perspective to some members here interested in such studies. I would love to discuss this more here if anyone is interested.

Thank you for your time ATS members.

edit on 9-12-2013 by Revolution9 because: addition.

Awareness of this revolution means you are brainwashing yourself with what is offered to you or what you searched out for.

Its not brainwashing you as you realize it is so you are brainwashing yourself instead of allowing the outside influence to brainwash you.

If you were unaware then it could be said to you by another that this or that is brainwashing you, its the awareness and allowance to brainwash one self that says its different than if one is unaware that their thinking and perception of things is being manipulated.

reply to post by Revolution9


Thank you, I hope the universe can become tuned to good, the sooner the better!

Great thread.

Woodcarver
reply to post by Revolution9

 

Sorry to interupt. But what do you mean by world conscience?

I wrote World Consciousness, but that would automatically imply World Conscience.

I am just hoping for a time when we are all aware enough not to abuse each other, I guess. It is idealistic.

That is not everyone else's wish though is it. Perhaps even an impossible dream.

It appears to me that most people want a functioning world of peace and security. They want a less painful world. They are the humanitarians and philanthropists among us.

reply to post by Revolution9


We are all on our own journey. Im glad ours intersected here. Have you read any of sam harris' work. There are tons of vids of his lectures and debates. He has a lot to say about free will. Although i dont agree with everything he says he sure opened my mind to some new questions. All great ideas should only lead to greater questions.

Peace.

reply to post by Revolution9

I wrote World Consciousness, but that would automatically imply World Conscience.

I am just hoping for a time when we are all aware enough not to abuse each other, I guess. It is idealistic.

That is not everyone else's wish though is it. Perhaps even an impossible dream.

It appears to me that most people want a functioning world of peace and security. They want a less painful world. They are the humanitarians and philanthropists among us.

I think it is more complicated than that.
Though it is a rather common concept that some exist who wish to abuse others or be tyrants of one sort or another, which gets in the way of such a "global consciousness" as you refer to...
I think just as many exist who want to be abused and be victims of some sort or another.

In everyday life, I witness the many perks and pleasures of this game, from both ends. No one feels more "good" and "pure" and "innocent' as they do when there exists in the vicinity someone else who is "bad", "stained" and "evil" !

That game is fun on a deep level- a level that needs to stay slightly underneath conscious awareness in order to play the game.


We now have the technology to create these amazing video games, which can make imaginary worlds and characters look real and even 3D in some cases! We can live out whatever we'd like to experience in those!

And what do we choose? What are millions paying money to play every day?

Games in which we fight monsters and villains; games in which the world is being overrun by evil and we have to try to save it. Games in which each of us has to collect energy or experience to gain strength and better survive in a sometimes harsh, sometimes downright hellish environment. War and half conscious zombies... People like this. That might be why we created, and contineu to create, collectively, the gameboard of earth as it is!

Woodcarver
reply to post by Revolution9

 

We are all on our own journey. Im glad ours intersected here. Have you read any of sam harris' work. There are tons of vids of his lectures and debates. He has a lot to say about free will. Although i dont agree with everything he says he sure opened my mind to some new questions. All great ideas should only lead to greater questions.

Peace.

I have not bumped into Sam Harris before. I will look him up. Thanks.

Free Will! The potential of it! The external and internal constraints and restraints! The shaping of it. Free Will is the decision maker of thoughts and actions. Our wills balance on cause and effect, action and reaction, pain and also bliss.

I am a bit naughty really because I have a very free will. I temper it with a brutal whipping from Jesus about how crap I am. Lol, it is the best way for me, believe it. It helps and I am not as naughty as I would otherwise be. Yet I agree with all those people that it is mind control. For me it is both necessary and healthy and a tool that helps me to survive with less painful consequences.

You know the list of external control mechanisms is huge. Alcohol and drugs even are control mechanisms. Users are controlling certain pain and behaviour triggers.

Relating to the MK Ultra thing it is easy to imagine how a combination of drugs, sexual manipulation, blackmail, indoctrination, sabotage by illusion, etc, if used in a sophisticated and premeditated way could easily have very profound effects in terms of control and behaviour response. We are all aware of media, too, as a herding propaganda tool. If that is not enough we have the enforcers of law and legislation to bring about behavioural changes by mandate.

reply to post by Revolution9

Exactly, are we ever free?

We are, but being free is the most difficult way of life if one wishes to share that freedom

Fear helps keep many, the majority in line.

Being free one will be labeled the worst of the worst if they wish to express and show their freedom to society.

Be free and keep that freedom to yourself and you can live in happiness for eternity, share the freedom and be challenged by all there is to be called authority.

What controls us is the external forces of consequences. We learn about consequences very early on in life. PAIN is the controlling factor.

No the fear of pain, pain can be both mental and physical.

Its the fear of those types of pain that controls.

The reasoning is that if you do certain actions they bring painful consequences now or in the future. In education we are threatened that if we do not succeed our lives will not be as comfortable and others will not have as much respect for us.

That reasoning sound like Fear is being used to control, same as the threats about education.

Its fear that is used as a controlling factor

PAIN controls much of our behaviour.

Fear of pain,

One can increase pain thresholds to take more and more.

some enjoy pain, what type of pain are you meaning, an excruciating pain or pain of pin prick or a quick burn?

Pain cannot control if one is free of fear of pain, pain will hurt but a free person has the freedom to take it until their threshold is exceeded and they blackout.

That is not physical strength to take the pain, but a strength in ones beliefs that they are free from the fear.

You put this in the metaphysics and I believe its the fear of pain that creates pain as a way to control.

Pain is real and one will feel the pain when its required, the fear of pain is what controls and maybe makes us pass up lessons that we needed on some higher level.