America divided: Our Iraqi Nightmare

America truly is divided; but, not along the lines that the mainstream media keeps telling us. America is divided between bloodthirsty warmongers, greedy sociopaths, religious zealots AND those of us who seek to live in a nation/world ruled by sanity, reason and compassion.

I just read an article (one of MANY) on the annihilation of Fallujah. I am so tired. Tired of our sons and daughters killing and dying to enrich the war profiteers from hell. Tired of our wrecked economy. Tired of all the hatred and lust for vengeance. When is it gonna be enough? When will the beast get his fill of the blood of our young? When will the America I once was so proud of stand up and demand our government be responsive to we the people?

I'm starting to think America is truly gone... for good.

Our country will pay dearly - and soon - for the atrocities our government and military are committing in our name. When that day comes, we will have ourselves to blame. God will never protect the unrepentant.

On Fallujah...

Pacifying populations, 'making' elections

By Larry Chin
Online Journal Associate Editor

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November 13, 2004�In the first speech following his second coup d'etat, the malignant and deeply criminal George W. Bush vowed that he "earned political capital," and that he "intended to spend it." His adminstration's first expenditures: the annihilation of Fallujah, mass slaughter in Iraq, and the destruction of what is left of democracy within the United States.

Fallujah

While the US corporate media continues to broadcast and publish Pentagon/CIA-sanitized, jingoistic and violent Bush administration propaganda, front-line dispatches of independent reporter Dahr Jamail (also available at Flashpoints (Pacifica Radio), and the coverage of Al-Jazeera, The New Standard News, Occupation Watch, Empire Notes, and media outside of the US confirm that violence is spiraling out of control across Iraq.
www.onlinejournal.com...

its all about oil baby

and the benjamins
anyway

and it will never be enough, until supplies are safely in our control again.
i dont think the americans will be that divided for much longer on the war.
the ugly truth about how dependant we are on oil will come out, and it wont matter whose president, bush, kerry, hillary, gary coleman because we are destined to keep fighting for whatever is left.

everyone will see this soon, i know i didnt when the war first started, but now i see it and i cant not notice it anymore.

The deed is done and is not turning back, once our leader committed themselves to be bougth by the few "interest groups" we are all gone.

Iraq is a nightmare, our soldiers are losing reputation around the world, and we the family members have to pick our pieces when our troops come home and explain what happened because they don't know what kind of mess our country is on right now.

And yes our government will have to stand in front of the people he has killed be Iraqis, afhganistanis and our own troops and answer to the questions as why and if the price was worth it.

I guess I will never understand these anti-american , anti-Bush threads. Do you know that throughout history we have heard the same crap over and over again. If we had CNN at the beaches of Normandy do you think we couldve dealt with all the dead at that slaughter. Falluja is hardly a slaughter. Do people not realize what a war really is? People die, mistakes are made, crimes will happen. Its funny that most people criticize Americans fighting in Falluja yet, these people never mention anything about the beheading's of international citizens by the very people the Americans are fighting. Its really funny that America can be criticized over and over again by everyone, yet I dont see anyone else trying to make a difference.

Dreamz

Before you critized the thread remember the reason why we are in this mess in Iraq and see what happend after that.

Originally posted by Dreamz
I guess I will never understand these anti-american , anti-Bush threads.

Bush is not America. Being anti-Bush is not being anti-American. I don't like the way the Republicrats are shredding the Constitution and running this country into the ground.

I'm a Constitution Party member btw.

Originally posted by marg6043
Dreamz

Before you critized the thread remember the reason why we are in this mess in Iraq and see what happend after that.

Remember Germany after WWII, what about Japan? Things dont happen overnight, I dont see why people think you can take a rogue regime and oppressed citizens and make them understand democracy overnight. Do you think Syria and Iran arent sending troops in to inflame the situation, because they are. That will only complicate situations and take the removal of troops from Iraq longer than what they need be.

In those time US was not fighting for oil now we are our fight is one of greed and interest for certain groups in this country they careless of our troops and the people that are dying in between.

The wars of the past were wars of honor. Tell me the honor you see in Iraq.

Originally posted by Amethyst

Originally posted by Dreamz
I guess I will never understand these anti-american , anti-Bush threads.

Bush is not America. Being anti-Bush is not being anti-American. I don't like the way the Republicrats are shredding the Constitution and running this country into the ground.

I'm a Constitution Party member btw.

Republicans are trashing the Constitution?? Last time I checked there is a thing called check and balances and ANY law can be stopped or changed. Republicans alone cant pass laws, maybe you should do a little history on how the American Government works. What exactly is trashing the constitution anyways? My life hasnt changed at all.

Originally posted by marg6043
In those time US was not fighting for oil now we are our fight is one of greed and interest for certain groups in this country they careless of our troops and the people that are dying in between.

The wars of the past were wars of honor. Tell me the honor you see in Iraq.

In freeing oppressed people. Thats honor. If it was all about oil, we wouldnt of allowed election to occur, which are coming up by the way. So any time a regime that has large amounts of oil poses a threat are we to concur its about the oil?

What checks and balance the republicans own the three houses now, and they are doing a great job on spending the capital the president gain.

Why the USA is so evenly divided :

www.zearle.com...

Originally posted by marg6043
What checks and balance the republicans own the three houses now, and they are doing a great job on spending the capital the president gain.

You dont know much about politics do you? It takes 60 votes to pass a bill and any bill can be fillibustered at any time, last time I checked there is 55 republicans in the senate.

Originally posted by Dreamz
In freeing oppressed people. Thats honor.

Sorry to disapoint you that reason has become old and meaningless. To many Iraqis had die for the freedom US wanted them to have.

TextYou dont know much about politics do you? It takes 60 votes to pass a bill and any bill can be fillibustered at any time, last time I checked there is 55 republicans in the senate.

And the last time I check The republicans still own the 3 houses.

Originally posted by marg6043

Originally posted by Dreamz
In freeing oppressed people. Thats honor.

Sorry to disapoint you that reason has become old and meaningless. To many Iraqis had die for the freedom US wanted them to have.
As opposed to the hundred of thousands Saddam kille din torture chambers or by gassing them?

TextYou dont know much about politics do you? It takes 60 votes to pass a bill and any bill can be fillibustered at any time, last time I checked there is 55 republicans in the senate.

And the last time I check The republicans still own the 3 houses.

Any bill still cant be past without approval from BOTH sides so the republicans owning both houses and the presidency still is meaningless without bi-partisan support.

And any bill to help the president agenda like raising the deficit limit so the president can spend more money that he does not have and we do not have has been pass with not problem.

I see a lot of opposition on the house now.

By the way keep the letter normal I can read them very well.

Originally posted by Dreamz
I guess I will never understand these anti-american , anti-Bush threads.

Dissent is AMERICAN. NOT anti-American. It is covered by the 1st Ammendment to the U.S. Constitution. Read it. Then you will understand that.

We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty. When the loyal opposition dies, I think the soul of America dies with it. - Edward R. Murrow

Naturally the common people don't want war; neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in America, nor in Germany. That is understood. But after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is to tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country. - Hermann Goering

To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. (1918) - Theodore Roosevelt

Do you know that throughout history we have heard the same crap over and over again. If we had CNN at the beaches of Normandy do you think we couldve dealt with all the dead at that slaughter. Falluja is hardly a slaughter. Do people not realize what a war really is?

I have seen war. Have you? Generally, statements like these come from those who have never witnessed it themself. And it's thoroughly offensive. To say that Fallujah is not a slaughter is naive in the extreme. And as for the battles of WW2, as Marg pointed out, WW2 was a very different war. There's simply no comparison. The invasion of Iraq was/is an illegal war of aggression. What we've done is no different than what Hitler did. I feel sorry for you folks who are too blinde or stubborn to see and acknowledge that. That is exactly what I meant when I said God will never bless or protect a nation that uses such wanton aggression. Woe to us, for our sins will be counted and answered with equal measure.

these people never mention anything about the beheading's of international citizens by the very people the Americans are fighting. Its really funny that America can be criticized over and over again by everyone, yet I dont see anyone else trying to make a difference.

Beheadings.. you should really look into U.S. and Israeli covert operations in Iraq and elsewhere. There you will find the responsible parties for many of these gruesome acts. It's called PSYCHOLOGICAL WARFARE. Something else you may want to consistantly ask first and foremost is.. who stands to gain? Things become much more clear when you approach it from that angle.

A good example..

Margaret Hassan execution: Anatomy of a CIA-DIA-Mossad Counterinsurgency operation?
.
November 17, 2004
�It is with profound sadness that we have learnt of the existence of a video in which it appears that our colleague Margaret Hassan has been killed. We are shocked and appalled that this has been the apparent outcome of her abduction,� CARE International said in a statement released yesterday. �Through her courage, tenacity and commitment, she assisted more than seventeen million Iraqis living in the most difficult of circumstances.�

More than 200 college professors since April 30, 2003, according to the Iraqi Union of University Lecturers, have been the targets of assassination. In addition, many intellectuals have disappeared. (See Andrew Rubin�s Bloodbath.)

In December, 2003, Julian Borger of the Guardian reported, �Israeli advisers are helping train US special forces in aggressive counter-insurgency operations in Iraq, including the use of assassination squads against guerrilla leaders. � US forces in Iraq�s Sunni triangle have already begun to use tactics that echo Israeli operations in the occupied territories.�
�A new Special Forces group, designated Task Force 121, has been assembled from Army Delta Force members, Navy seals, and C.I.A. paramilitary operatives, with many additional personnel,� according to Seymour Hersh.
Israel funded Hamas, as the UPI�s Richard Sale reported in 2002.
The Palestinian Authority arrested a group of collaborators who confessed they were working for Israel, posing as al-Qaeda operatives in the Palestinian territories, in December, 2002. A PA official said the collaborators sought to �discredit the Palestinian people, justify every Israeli crime and provide reasons to carry out a new (military) aggression in the Gaza Strip.�
Israel currently runs covert ops in the Kurdish area of Iraq (see Seymour Hersh�s Plan B)
A CIA instruction manual entitled Psychological Operations in Guerrilla Warfare, written in the 1980s, states the following: �Bring about uprisings or shootings, which will cause the death of one or more persons � in order to create greater conflicts.�
US military (and CIA operative) officer Major Edward Geary Lansdale�s �psy-war tactics� used in the Philippines against the Huk. Lansdale�s methods �centered on measures of deception similar to those employed in the British and French colonial campaigns in Kenya and Indochina,� including the creation of bogus guerilla units used to discredit the enemy. (See Michael McClintock�s Instruments of Statecraft: U.S. Guerilla Warfare, Counterinsurgency, and Counterterrorism, 1940-1990.)
mparent7777.blog-city.com...

From another post: As far as us Allowing the Iraqis to have an election, I say this: If Allawi actually was in charge we couldn't LET them do anything. He is nothing but a NeoCon puppet.

Originally posted by Dreamz

Originally posted by marg6043
What checks and balance the republicans own the three houses now, and they are doing a great job on spending the capital the president gain.

You dont know much about politics do you? It takes 60 votes to pass a bill and any bill can be fillibustered at any time, last time I checked there is 55 republicans in the senate.

The Republicans control it all now. Look at that slimeball DeLay - he's in hot legal water and what do they do? They change the rules so he doesn't havta step down.

And here's another one..

GOP May Go �Nuclear� On Judges

Republicans Try To Defuse Possible Filibusters

Nov 17, 2004 7:57 pm US/Mountain
NEW YORK (CBS) Senate Republicans are considering taking the rare step of enacting a rules change to disable Democrats' ability to block Supreme Court nominees.

The option has not been utilized since 1975. It is so likely to divide the Senate along the strictest of partisan lines that in Washington parlance it is being referred to as �going nuclear.�
news4colorado.com...

The GOP has lost its mind.

Originally posted by Dreamz
I guess I will never understand these anti-american , anti-Bush threads.

That's a true statement from a Bush supporter fixated on the Bush agenda, and I want to commend its honesty.

Except for this: it is in no way anti-American to be anti-Bush.



* and furthermore.... my apologies.... something happened when I opened the first page of this thread and I did not see the dialogue at all with Amethyst, whose position was very similar to what I just tried to say. *

[edit on 18-11-2004 by MaskedAvatar]

Bush supporters will hang their heads in shame one day for supporting this current fascism. It is the same insanity that allowed Hitler's rise.