What do you think? US National Flag Ordered at Half Staff for Nelson Mandela

My questions for ATS ...
Are we a nation in mourning for Nelson Mandela?
Is it appropriate for the US National Flag to be flown at half mast for a former foreign leader/figure?
Our flag was put at half staff for the death of Pope John Paul II as well. Was that the correct thing to do?
Our flag was put at half staff for the Christmas tsunami victims. Was that the correct thing to do?
When do you think our flag should be at half staff?

MY OPINION - it's appropriate for things like Sandy Hook and 9/11 and Pearl Harbor, but when we start lowering it for world leaders or former world leaders, no matter how much some folks admire them, then it'll be lowered all the time and the 'half staff' will lose it's real meaning. We are supposed to be a nation in mourning when it comes down to half staff. And I don't think that the death of Mandela or John Paul II or Ted Kennedy (etc) have reached that 'nation in mourning' mode.

Now before someone comes along and says I hate Mandela or something ... I'll say this .. don't even go there. The guy had a rough life and put up with a lot. He inspired a bunch of folks. And just having to deal with that ex-wife of his is enough to admire him for. So no .. I don't hate Mandela. This is purely a question of when should our flag be at half staff.

Obama Ordered US Flag at Half Staff for Nelson Mandela

When does the US Flag Get Flown at Half Mast

In the United States, the President can issue an executive order for the flag of the United States to be flown at half-staff upon the death of principal figures of the United States government, and others, as a mark of respect to their memory. When such an order is issued, all government buildings, offices, public schools and military bases are to fly their flags at half-staff. Under federal law (4 U.S.C. § 7(f)), the flags of states, cities, localities, and pennants of societies, shall never be placed above the flag of the United States; thus, all other flags also fly at half-staff when the U.S. flag has been ordered to fly at half-staff. It is important to note that there is no penalty for failure to comply with the above law as to enforce such a law would violate the First Amendment.

Governors of the several U.S. states or territories are authorized by federal law to order all U.S. and state flags in their jurisdiction flown at half-staff as a mark of respect for a former or current state official who has died, or for a member of the armed forces who has died in active duty. The governor's authority to issue the order is more restricted than the president's and does not include the discretion to issue the order for state residents who do not meet the criteria stated. Since a governor's executive order affects only his or her state, not the entire country, these orders are distinguished from presidential proclamations.

I think it is the least he deserves, he changed the face of the planet and for once for the good of all.
I think we all should pay out respects anyway we should.

Innappriate to lower the u.s flag for a foriegn citizen or foriegn leader.

I think it's inappropriate.

I get that he is a great man, and he should be honored as such.

However, our national flag only flies at half mast for heroes of the nation or in times of national tragedy. The death of a hero of South Africa signifies neither no matter how great he is or was. He was not ours. I would not expect the South African flag to fly at half staff to honor MLK, for example, but I would expect ours to.

Oh ... and I disagree with the rule that the flag should be lowered for when a former US President dies. I don't think we are a nation in mourning over the death of a former president. IF the president is killed in office like JFK .. then yes, lower it. But not for former politicians. Ditto for senators and govs etc. If their individual state wants to lower their state flag back home ... fine ... but not the national one.

Since a moment of silence from a politician is nearly impossible to obtain, I think lowering the American flag to half-staff at the death of world leaders, current and former, is ok. I don't think that would cause the flag to be half-masted all that often for such circumstances.

I do see what you mean, FlyersFan, and it could easily get out of hand. But I think as a sign of respect for the death of other nations' recognized head, its ok.

Nelson Mandela is a shining example of a democratic leader that tied together a nation in a time where bloodshed was almost a certainty.

He is a shining example of what democracy stands for, as he was able to convert a country to a democracy with almost zero bloodshed.

He is also a shining example of what it means to be a leader working against racial divides.

I support flags at half staff for Mandela for this reason. His actions over his lifetime are quite possibly one of the shining achievements of Democracy, and demonstrates why it works.

If US leaders lead by his example, we would probably not be in the mess we are in now.


Additionally, just look up the US Flag Rules to see that this is not "diminishing the effect" of half staff. It is exactly WHY we have half staff.

Source: Cornell Law US Code Library Flag 4 USC § 7 - Position and manner of display
In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.

Don't try and make this something it isn't. Get the facts strait first.

FlyersFan
Oh ... and I disagree with the rule that the flag should be lowered for when a former US President dies. I don't think we are a nation in mourning over the death of a former president. IF the president is killed in office like JFK .. then yes, lower it. But not for former politicians. Ditto for senators and govs etc. If their individual state wants to lower their state flag back home ... fine ... but not the national one.

I agree with not lowering it at the death of a Senator, Congressman, or Governor. That should be at the state level that that politician served for, except in extreme circumstances.

I think it should be lowered for the death of a former President. But, hey, that's just me.

reply to post by FlyersFan


I agree with this, too.

It used to be that lowering of the flag was a rare thing, and signal honor. Now we seem to do it for the death of any Tom, Dick, or Harry.

Lowering the flag simply because a President dies risks putting more weight into that office than it was meant to have. Our president was not meant to have any real special significance beyond being the face of the country to foreign nations and some other specific powers. He was just supposed to be another office holder like all the rest.

Sometimes, he could rise to true greatness, but it required more than simply getting elected and doing his job.

The flag should only be lowered for major events in the US. 9/11 is a good example. It should not be lowered for shooting incidents and the death of every minor character in the landscape.

The WH should review flag protocol and stick to it.

reply to post by FlyersFan


Lets put it like this.

When 911 took place I am sure nearly every country throughout the world had their national flag (situated over country HQ/state office etc etc...) at half mast out of respect for those who lost their lives.... and i think that this was also the case for JFK.

Why should the USA not do this for Nelson Mandela, if i remember correctly there also quite a large population of people stemming from African origins in the US no... out of respect for those people too!

Whenever a world leader dies i also believe that most embassies or main offices also fly their flags at half mast.

Kindest respects

Rodinus

I heard a junior officer express similar surprise this morning when he was told to "three quarter mast " the duster for the passing of a foreign political figure. We also touched on the danger of cheapening the practice through overuse. I don't hold any objection in this case, I do however object to the way the BBC will milk this for every possible sympathy rating they can get.

Half Mast, most definitely it should be, this planet is small enough as it is .............. its called respect. Respect for a man that changed the almost impossible in South Africa. RIP Modiba

reply to post by xmaddness


This more than anything. Mandela did more for Democracy than any of our stooge politicians do today. He also did more for racial equality than any of our racial leaders do today (who in fact do the exact opposite of bringing races together). This man deserves to have the flag lowered in his honor. I don't care if he is from South Africa, with the amount of greed, corruption, and apathy of our current politicians, I don't think I would ever respect any of them as much as I respect Nelson Mandela. I would support flag at half mast for Mandala before putting it at half mast for some event like a bomb going off and killing a bunch of our current Congressional politicians.

I think it's a very nice gesture with the right ideas.......but the national flag isn't there to be a tool for nice gestures.

Find another way, is what I say.

the guys who are honoring him are the internationalists, ya know, the power brokers who wish to transform the globe into one world socialist order? those guys?

people keep forgetting nothing done at the top is done for just americans, it's done for internationalists. globalists, in other words.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000

Agreed.

In general, rightly or wrongly, the late Mr Mandela will be remembered for his efforts in the line of freedom, and human liberty in the face of oppression and tyranny.

Now, my point is, the Government (as a collective, not individually) of the USA hasn't really scored that well in recent times in those particular exams.......

Mourn in private with dignity as you wish, it is the choice of the individual, but to have one of the biggest oppressors of human freedom and liberty in modern times honour a man who really went for it along those lines.....

Not USA bashing, hopefully the majority can see what I am getting at.

For the people saying that it is inappropriate for the flag to be lowered for Mandela may want to check up on the flag codes here in the states.

Flag Code

In the event of the death of other officials or foreign dignitaries, the flag is to be displayed at half-staff according to Presidential instructions or orders, or in accordance with recognized customs or practices not inconsistent with law.

Deny ignorance don't embrace it.

reply to post by FlyersFan


The first black U.S president lowering the flag for the death of the first black president of S.A who fought racism and sought freedom for the oppressed.
It's respect and it should resonate with people in the states.