"All that they tell you, do and observe" - Jesus' acknowledgement of the Pharisees

sk0rpi0n
@ FlyersFan.... I'd like to see Christians react to your beliefs about Adam, Noah, Moses and Abraham.

Yes .. you are OBSESSED with me. Pretty sick.

Here's the 'reaction' .... ON YOUR OWN THREAD
Statistics on the first three pages.
The 'reaction' from Christians ... at least half of Christianity agrees with me.
You've been told that dozens of times. You refuse to acknowledge it.

reply to post by FlyersFan


it's a groovy kind of love man...

no worries, it's all good

hear the screams and smell the flesh!

This thread is dead. The OP has, once again, been proven wrong.
All it is now is a typical obsession with drive-by insult attempts and a refusal
by the OP to admit that he's wrong (again).

Jesus CHANGED THE LAW and he CHANGED THE AUTHORITY.

Matthew 16:18-19. Jesus passed law-authority to HIS CHURCH and put PETER in charge. Jesus said - "And I tell you, you are Peter and on this rock I shall build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys to the kingdom of Heaven; whatever you bind on Earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on Earth will be loosed in Heaven."

An example of Jesus 'rewriting' Old Testament dietary laws declaring all foods clean - which goes against 'Old Testament Law'

Hear me, all of you, and understand: there is nothing outside a man which by going into him can defile him; but the things which come out of a man are what defile him." And when he had entered the house, and left the people, his disciples asked him about the parable. And he said to them, "Then are you also without understanding? Do you not see that whatever goes into a man from outside cannot defile him, since it enters, not his heart but his stomach, and so passes on?" (Mark 7:14-19)

An example of Jesus rewriting Old Testament Sabbath laws - which goes against Old Testament Law

Jesus went through the grainfields on the Sabbath; his disciples were hungry, and they began to pluck heads of grain and to eat. But when the Pharisees saw it, they said to him, "Look, your disciples are doing what is not lawful to do on the Sabbath." He said to them, "Have you not read what David did, when he was hungry, and those who were with him: how he entered the house of God and ate the bread of the Presence, which it was not lawful for him to eat nor for those who were with him, but only for the priests? Or have you not read in the law how on the Sabbath the priests in the temple profane the Sabbath, and are guiltless? I tell you, something greater than the temple is here. And if you had known what this means, ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice,’ you would not have condemned the guiltless. For the Son of man is lord of the Sabbath." (Matt. 12:1-8)

THE END

@FlyersFan..... How about you just wait for user Godlover25 to answer the question I posted? Also, those stats you posted only prove that a large percentage of Christians don't believe their own Bibles.

sk0rpi0n
How about you just wait for user Godlover25 to answer the question I posted?

How about you stay on the topic of the thread for a change... and I'm not it.

those stats you posted only prove that a large percentage of Christians don't believe their own Bibles.

1 - Those stats I posted show that Christianity AGREES with me.
2 - Those stats I posted show that Christians understand how to read the Christian bible better than you,who are just a militant muslim.

ON TOPIC -
JESUS CHANGED THE LAW.
JESUS APPOINTED HIS CHURCH AS THE LAW

Your latest "Im a muslim and I'm going to tell Christians how to read the Christian bible' thread is, once again, proven wrong. How about you just stick to your Islam and stop with trying to tell Christians how to be Christians. You fail every time.

sk0rpi0n
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. - Matthew 5:17-18

It actually says; παρέλθῃ - Pass by / Pass away

What Jesus is speaking about here is the passing of the ages which we call 'The pass-over'; when the 'Gate of the Gods' (Babylon) passes over in alignment, to signal the start of each Age.

Every time this happens a new set of writings are brought forward as an 'Addendum' to the Bible.

So until Heaven and Earth 'pass over', not the smallest letter, not the least stroke or a pen, will change the laws.

I've created a picture below that explains the Age alignment which is taking place at the moment.

The new teachings are coming forth as we speak. The theology will be 'updated' and changed over the next 3 years.

The conservatives are going to hate what Francis has been told he has to do.

Benedict wasn't up to the 'command' he was given to reform the Church and replenish the salt; this is why they made him step down; and put Francis in.

reply to post by godlover25

G-d does not change His mind. If He says His teaching in Torah is eternal and to be kept 'as long as the heavens are above the earth' then He is not going to change this. Your 'messiah' acknowledges the Torah as eternal from which 'not one jot nor one tittle' can be changed by anyone. Also G-d does not make mistakes which is how we know Torah is divine. The 'nt' is full of mistakes, even obvious ones. How many people went down to Egypt with Jacob? The 'nt' gets it wrong and even where Abraham is buried. Did G-d lose His memory? Paul claims he is an 'apostle of G-d' but he teaches that Torah is evil. Every single doctrine of Christianity is false and can easily be shown to be false if you read the direct teaching of G-d to Moses.

@PaddyGoLightly...I pretty much agree with everything you wrote except the way you put messiah in quotes. If God doesn't make mistakes (he doesn't), why did he allow 2 major religions to come up teaching that Jesus is the messiah? Also, what do you make of certain Rabbis claims that God made certain mistakes?

reply to post by sk0rpi0n


The so called "god" you're referring to makes mistakes all over the place...

How exactly do you explain man before the flood? Simply put, the OT God made a mistake... and afterword he regrets his flooding the planet... that's another mistake

The OT is riddled with "mistakes" which are always overlooked or just ignored by the faithful believers of said books.

False gods make mistakes...

so do false apostles for that matter... along with those who follow books about false gods

reply to post by Akragon

The so called "god" you're referring to makes mistakes all over the place...

How exactly do you explain man before the flood? Simply put, the OT God made a mistake... and afterword he regrets his flooding the planet... that's another mistake

The OT is riddled with "mistakes" which are always overlooked or just ignored by the faithful believers of said books.

The entire Bible is riddled with mistakes and errors, as a result of passing through human hands. Its amazing how some people dismiss the mistake riddled OT but cling on to the mistake riddled NT.

It only appears that God "regretted" doing certain things, because the writers of the OT phrased it that way.

Jesus ... Says - 'The meek shall inherit the Earth'
'God' of the OT ... Tells Moses to take over 'the promised land' by force.

Jesus ... Mercy incarnate. Forgiveness.
'God' of the OT ... Adam and Eve take a bite from an apple, so they and all mankind are forever punished with illness and pain and death.

Jesus ... Says - 'Love God and love your neighbor'
'God' of the OT - tells Joshua to slaughter whole towns of innocent people and animals for no reason.

Jesus ... says 'forgive seven times seventy times'
Jesus ... says 'But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also (Mt 5:38-39)
'God' of the OT - 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand'
(which just leaves a lot of angry blind lame people )

Jesus directly contradicted the Old Testament 'God's violence -
Jesus Repudiation of Old Testament Violence

Most interestingly, in Deuteronomy Moses goes so far as to stress that the law must not be waved aside out of compassion. “Show no pity,” the text says, “ life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot” (Deut 19:21). Yet, Jesus not only commands people to “show pity,” he replaces the Old Testament quid pro quo ethic with his radical ethic of unconditional love.

For example, while the Old Testament allowed Israelites to hate their enemies and sometimes command them to slaughter them, Jesus forbid his disciples from ever hating or doing any harm to an enemy. Instead, he commanded people to “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Mt 5:43-45). Luke includes the command to “do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you” and “pray for those who mistreat you” (Lk 6:27-28).

Most surprising of all, Jesus emphatically makes loving enemies rather than hating them the precondition to being a child of God. We’re to love, bless, pray for and do good to our enemies “that you may be children of your Father in heaven” (Mt 5:45, emphasis added). Only if we love indiscriminately can we “be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked” (Lk 6:35). Small wonder, therefore, that when Peter drew his sword in self-defense — acting in accordance with Old Testament norms — Jesus rebuked him.

Jesus Without Baggage

But who wrote about God in the Old Testament? Was it God writing his own autobiography, or was it people writing about God as they understood him? I think it was the latter. The Old Testament is a collection of material written by many people, in many situations, over a long period of time. What they had in common was that they felt a connection to God or with the nation Israel.

Perhaps God provided special insights to some of them in some way, but we don’t know to what extent, and it seems that they had a very incomplete understanding of God. The Old Testament idea of God certainly reflects many of the assumptions about gods in the surrounding cultures of that day—things that we no longer believe.

The writers of the Old Testament were bound by the periods in which they lived, and their ideas of an angry, violent, vindictive God were products of their limitations. It is an incredible burden on them to expect that they were perfect in everything they wrote.

FlyersFan
Jesus ... Says - 'The meek shall inherit the Earth'
'God' of the OT ... Tells Moses to take over 'the promised land' by force.

Jesus ... Mercy incarnate. Forgiveness.
'God' of the OT ... Adam and Eve take a bite from an apple, so they and all mankind are forever punished with illness and pain and death.

Jesus ... Says - 'Love God and love your neighbor'
'God' of the OT - tells Joshua to slaughter whole towns of innocent people and animals for no reason.

Jesus ... says 'forgive seven times seventy times'
Jesus ... says 'But I tell you, do not resist an evil person. If anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to them the other cheek also (Mt 5:38-39)
'God' of the OT - 'an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, a hand for a hand'
(which just leaves a lot of angry blind lame people )

Jesus directly contradicted the Old Testament 'God's violence -
Jesus Repudiation of Old Testament Violence

Most interestingly, in Deuteronomy Moses goes so far as to stress that the law must not be waved aside out of compassion. “Show no pity,” the text says, “ life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot” (Deut 19:21). Yet, Jesus not only commands people to “show pity,” he replaces the Old Testament quid pro quo ethic with his radical ethic of unconditional love.

For example, while the Old Testament allowed Israelites to hate their enemies and sometimes command them to slaughter them, Jesus forbid his disciples from ever hating or doing any harm to an enemy. Instead, he commanded people to “love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you” (Mt 5:43-45). Luke includes the command to “do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you” and “pray for those who mistreat you” (Lk 6:27-28).

Most surprising of all, Jesus emphatically makes loving enemies rather than hating them the precondition to being a child of God. We’re to love, bless, pray for and do good to our enemies “that you may be children of your Father in heaven” (Mt 5:45, emphasis added). Only if we love indiscriminately can we “be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked” (Lk 6:35). Small wonder, therefore, that when Peter drew his sword in self-defense — acting in accordance with Old Testament norms — Jesus rebuked him.

Jesus Without Baggage

But who wrote about God in the Old Testament? Was it God writing his own autobiography, or was it people writing about God as they understood him? I think it was the latter. The Old Testament is a collection of material written by many people, in many situations, over a long period of time. What they had in common was that they felt a connection to God or with the nation Israel.

Perhaps God provided special insights to some of them in some way, but we don’t know to what extent, and it seems that they had a very incomplete understanding of God. The Old Testament idea of God certainly reflects many of the assumptions about gods in the surrounding cultures of that day—things that we no longer believe.

The writers of the Old Testament were bound by the periods in which they lived, and their ideas of an angry, violent, vindictive God were products of their limitations. It is an incredible burden on them to expect that they were perfect in everything they wrote.

So...now that you've resurrected an old thread...explain why Jesus asked his followers to ''do as the Pharisees say'' because they sat in Moses' chair.

reply to post by sk0rpi0n

...explain why Jesus asked his followers to ''do as the Pharisees say'' because they sat in Moses' chair.

This lends authority to a group who in general were responsible for condemning Jesus as a sinner.
This gives meaning to Paul's statement that Jesus was "made sin" for us.
He did not commit sins according to the fundamental law but was imputed as a sinner by those who taught and judged by the old written Mosaic Law.
Jesus being vindicated by God afterwards in effect nullifies that written law in favor of the fundamental law.

sk0rpi0n
explain why Jesus asked his followers to ''do as the Pharisees say'' because they sat in Moses' chair.

Explain why Jesus told his followers to do the exact opposite of the old laws?
Instead of an eye for an eye .. he said FORGIVE.
Explain why Jesus said 'the meek shall inherit the Earth?
Instead of taking everything by force like the old laws said?
Explain why everything Jesus said and did with spirituality was the exact opposite of the Pharisees.
Go ahead ... good luck with that.

FlyersFan....
Explain why Jesus told his followers to do the exact opposite of the old laws?
Instead of an eye for an eye .. he said FORGIVE.
Explain why Jesus said 'the meek shall inherit the Earth?
Instead of taking everything by force like the old laws said?
Explain why everything Jesus said and did with spirituality was the exact opposite of the Pharisees.
Go ahead ... good luck with that.

and..... desite all that, Jesus STILL told his followers to ''do and obey'' as the law obsessed Pharisees instructed.

sk0rpi0n
and..... desite all that, Jesus STILL told his followers to ''do and obey'' as the law obsessed Pharisees instructed.

and .. despite that one sentence, Jesus STILL continually told his followers to do the exact opposite of what the law prescribed. He said show MERCY when the law said to show none. He said BE MEEK when the law said to be aggressive. He said FORGIVE when the law said to exact revenge.