Woman has heartattack - everybody stands there filming!

superman2012
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

 

Isn't it legal in the US to sue someone if they try to save your loved one and fail or hurt them in the process of saving their life? The laws make people this way.

In Canada, we have the Good Samaritan Act which would protect us in the event that we caused harm while trying to save a person's life. In fact, when I took my First Aid, we were told not to help anyone that didn't specifically request our help if we are in the USA.


Edit: I feel that if you don't do anything to help someone, when you know you could, you are morally and ethically inferior and you should be carted off to jail for accessory to manslaughter or some other similar charge. I would risk the lawsuit if I hurt someone while saving their life in the US, I would just pray that the person has enough morality to realize where the best intentions were. Unfortunately, this isn't the norm as then you wouldn't have people standing around with their cameras. Poor lady.

edit on 1-12-2013 by superman2012 because: (no reason given)

The Good Samaritan Act is also applied in some states of the US, but always ask if you can help. If they cannot answer given the situation then you can either help them or call 911 for advice. Either way, always call 911 fist if the situation demands it. Clearly if someone is choking on a dinner roll you would do the Heimlich first before anything else lol.

mysterioustranger
Well? Only 1 person at a time can perform CPR

I think it had more to do with them recording it with their camaras rather than just standing around not knowing how to help but transfixed and unable to leave. Recording it with their camaras shows they not only don't know what to do but don't care what they do and in fact are being extremely disrespectful.

I can partially understand this. I once was at a bus terminal asking a guy for a ticket or a schedule and behind me a woman comes running and tells the man to dial 9/11 because there's another woman having a seizure. And then she suddenly gets angry and tells us something like "Why're you not paying attention, what's wrong with you?" I felt like saying "Sorrry, lady, I didn't know." So I went over to where the young lady was having a seizure and I'm no doctor and do not have any training and since I'm stuck at the bus station I really don't know what to do but watch and hope the situation ends well. I'm sorry I don't have all the answers, but at least I tried to be respectful. It's hard when you're caught in a situation like that. It makes you feel helpless, but it also gains you a new respect for people who do know what to do.

I guess another thing that makes the OP angry is the people standing around DIDN'T know what to do and that reflects on their character. It means they have no training and have never considered this situation seriously. It shows they've possibly been drifting through life blindly. It makes them look lazy and unhelpful. In this respect, I'd be guilty because I still haven't received proper training in these things.

Another problem I have is despite not having training I HAVE seen things on TV and read things. Could I do CPR even though I have no training? I probably could. HOwever, I'm the kind of guy that is so critical sometimes he just becomes unable to act. I will analyze something and worry that I'll do it wrong and then not do anything. But this isn't the same for everythig. I think I'd have more confidence in my ability to do CPR than in my ability to help someone who's choking on something. IDK, but I do feel guilty and ashamed of myself that I don't know more about medical things.

What I know about CPR is you follow the beats to the song Staying Alive. I've also read that you give them a breath by tilting their head and pinching their nose every 30 seconds. However, I've also read that giving them the chest compressions is considered more important than the breathes, at least in some countries.

I think it'd be a good idea to give this kind of training to highschoolers. There's the possibility it'll do more harm than good, but considering how hard it's to find fully trained people, it means by the time they arrive the person suffering the heart attack will have not recieved any CPR for possibly several minutes. This means it's logical to instruct people to do CPR even if they have no training. In fact, this logic probably applies in many cases, including people suffering a seizure. The lesson is more damage is done in the absence of ANY help than if non-trained tried to help.

reply to post by mlifeoutthere


Oh my god, that's horrendous. Not only that no one else tried to help (I can understand that because if people don't know what to do and others do, coz they'll get in the way) or that they watched (as a species, we're drawn to disaster) but that they stood filming it! I mean, that woman could be someone's mother or grandmother and they filmed her dying? That's horrific. I can't think of any time where that'd be necessary and that boils my blood.

Good on your parents and yourself for helping though, there's always a few decent people left after all. And I'm sorry to hear she died. That's not the way I imagine anyone wanting to go, and I'm sorry you had to witness it.

PainGod
reminds me of the time when me and a buddy of mine were coming home and we saw a bunch of cars parked under an overpass. On the opposite side of the road there was smoke and a Ford ranger with 1/2 its engine smashed into the passenger side of the truck. Me and my buddy stopped to see what was going on and they said this truck just veered off the road and slammed into one of the support pillars. about 20-30 people just standing around. I asked if there was anyone in the vehicle now which was smoking. no one knew because no one went to check. So me and my buddy went down and sure enough there was a driver but no passenger (thank god because where he hit the pillar was dead on with the front passenger side of the vehicle and no one would have survived fitting on that side of the truck.) the driver was awake but messed up. He was wearing his seat belt and the airbag went off but he was still pretty messed up. car still smoking smell of gas everywhere we decided to get him out of the car and get him away from the vehicle. We did get yelled at by an emt after they showed up because we helped move him. But like we told her we really did not want to watch a man burn alive. We really thought it could go up any second.
To this day I still could not believe that at least 20 people were there some witnessed it and no one went down to even see if the guy was alive. Me and my buddy could have gone along with the "Mob mentality" but the first thing that goes through my mind when I saw that was what if it were me. Would I want someone to come and try to help or stand there like bumps on a log. We acted within moments of learning the basic facts. The guy did survive and about 10 years later I saw him in a store he had facial reconstruction and walked with a limp but was alive and well. Moral of the story is this. If you ever find yourself in a situation where your actions could mean the difference between the life or death of someone just ask yourself...what if that were me?

edit on 2-12-2013 by PainGod because: (no reason given)

Interesting they scolded you for moving him. I do remember hearing about this exact scenario in my CPR/1st aid course last year - don't move a victim if there is no immediate danger but if the is immediate danger, and you have time, try to get them away from it. But....never risk your own life. Its weird the lesson was on this scenario - a burning or soon to be burning vehicle. Maybe it came up in Red Cross classes because of what you did :-). I applaud you for removing him from the potential of a worse fate.

I would like to just state this one more time, so it is clear:

The entire United States is covered by the Good Samaritan Act!

You will not be successfully sued in the States for trying to help someone by performing CPR (no one EVER has). Consent is implied with an unconscious person...so obviously, someone who is dead can not give consent. It is okay to help them.

If someone is unresponsive and NOT breathing, call 911 (or have someone else call) and begin CPR immediately. This is the greatest chance they have of surviving. The brain begins to die after 6 minutes without oxygen and it starts to become permanent after 6-8 minutes.

(ETA: I should add that I was a EMT/FF for over eight years and have been a certified CPR instructor for over ten. Still am. I know what I am talking about.)

When I lived in Tokyo, I was standing in Shinjuku Station and waited for my train to arrive a a drunk guy fell down onto the rails on the other side.
Everybody, even the really old people there, instantly grabbed their phones to film it instead of pulling the emergency break button.
I did not speak Japanese at that time, but I went mad and screamed they should rethink their f*cking attitude and get a live and how horrible this people are.
I hope that at least some of them have understood me.
The train fortunately stopped lik 20cm in front of that guy, so it did not end in a mess.
Sad part though is, the guy died anyway, because he hit his head on the rails in an unfortunate way.

reply to post by Violater1

You did not get my feeble attempt at humor there. I teach CPR. And I am an EMT/ERT and certified Advanced Disaster Life Support specialist in Medical Triage.

I am a first responder for FEMA as well.

Thank you though. Everyone should take a First Aid and CPR class. Contact your local city's Emergency Management Department/Fire/EMS/Police depts, local Red Cross, Citizen Corps or hospital and take some training...if only for your own family in case of emergencies.

Additionally, as a 1st Responder and all kidding aside here...we've become a society of indifference. Dont get involved. It'll be ok because someone else will jump in. Ill just stand back here and film on my cell-pho ...hey! Maybe I can post this to YouTUBE!!!.

Indeed, its sad. I carry a full ER kit in both my cars, everywhere in my gym and work bags...you name it. If I never need them? Wonderful. But, if I ever do? Im ready.

In this thread-point? Its like that old saying: no one wants to see a car wreck scene....but no one can keep from looking. And while leaving help to someone else...to keep filming.

Yes, its sad.

mysterioustranger
Well? Only 1 person at a time can perform CPR

You know, I'm gonna second this remark. I think it is valid. If you don't think you have the knowledge base or skill set to help, or you think it may be a "too many hands in the kitchen" situation, then it is better to stand back. I think many people make that assessment in an emergency (myself included), and may stand back and watch. I'm sure at least some of those people dialed 911 before they hit the record button. I will say filming it is disrespectful, and weird... It also could be distracting in case you are needed and you're too busy recording. Personally, I wouldn't do that (for the record). I can see why you are angry, but it may not be quite as bad as you think.

reply to post by mlifeoutthere


I understand your frustration but, if there were two people working on her, any more could be a problem. If they were doing CPR, that's about all u can do...(and calling ETMs). It's the world we live in. Camera phones are part of it. You could move off the grid but then, she probably would have died.

mlifeoutthere
Right now, i personally hate the human race.

Today in town, an elderly woman collapsed with a heart attack, there were tons of people near by as its a busy shopping center (trafford center manchester).

Besides for my parents, and a couple of other people who rushed to help, there were about 20 other people around, and almost all of them stood there like dead zombies, holding their STUPID camera phones out.

I got so mad i wanted to smash each and every single one of their phones.

This is what society has become, its all about being soul-less robots OBSESSED with `video sharing` and twitter and the latest gossip, and by and large not giving a crap about one another.

Seriously, i have never been this angry before.

PS the elderly woman was pronounced dead by the way, i know that because my parents were called in for a witness statement afterwards.

edit on 1-12-2013 by mlifeoutthere because: (no reason given)

So... While I am not the person that pulls out his camera phone and starts filming; but rather seem to feel I am more the person that calls 911 and proceeds to rush to help, I feel it's necessary to state that As that person, I don't particularly mind people pulling out their phones to film.

In this case - an elderly woman is having a heart attack; there are people rushing to her aid ( your parents? ) and people calling emergency services. What more would you ask of the 20 people standing around? Simply stand and stare? You don't want them to crowd around her and limit her oxygen. You don't want to flood emergency lines with repetitive calls.

I would not be the person pulling out my camera phone, but moreso the person running to aid the woman in any way I could; but that does not detract from the fact that all of these people you are complaining about probably couldn't have done much more.

Honestly? I'd prefer that someone record my death and the aftermath, to ensure that there was no fowl play involved, and that everyone did what they could. Those 'stupid camera phone recordings' could inform authorities that paramedics didn't perform their due diligence; in the end.

The phones are nothing more than a convenient excuse to do nothing.
We've been trained to be a nation of spectators by television.
People's ability to use logic is sadly in a similar state.
Don't get involved.
Don't stand out.
Do whatever the crowd does.
The 3 commandments of modern America.

Eta: To the poster above - If you are ever injured by "fowl play" please take pictures.
I want to see the size of that chicken.

it's like we lost the capacity of compassion, our humanity over the years. this is not news to me but it's something that is relatively recent (age of the internet). what happened to us? why have we become so hollow inside?

reply to post by mlifeoutthere


Should have broken some phones.

Those pissants of citizens won't have any compassion until they experience a tragedy themselves.

mlifeoutthere
Besides for my parents, and a couple of other people who rushed to help, there were about 20 other people around, and almost all of them stood there like dead zombies, holding their STUPID camera phones out.

Welcome to the age of proletariat celebrity via the Internet.

But, for balance, how many people do you want to help a heart attack victim? What could they have all done  ― pray? How many of them would have had any idea of what to do in that situation, anyway?

Moreover, once you have a heart attack, you're in the hands of the gods as to whether you'll survive or not and rushing you to a hospital is the best you can hope good Samaritans will do.

reply to post by mlifeoutthere


With all due respect,

Post a video or it didnt happen! Simple

And dont tell me there are no vids of it! That would be a paradox!

So what should i search for to find the video? I cant find it anywhere.

reply to post by mlifeoutthere


Its pretty normal behavior for humans and even wildlife animals in there own way and capacity as well. Now a days its just become more obvious, and everybody is detached in our society there is practically no way you can not be detached in one way or another, or in one form or another. And I think it will become more so.

But this is typical behavior, not that different then the vids and pics you got on facebook everytime something happens. Even happened today for me. Its in the news that Paul Walker died, and sure enough people at work were showing me pictures going around on there facebooks which showed his corpse and face, and there all wondering if it was real or not because it did not look like him. Well how else is a mangled corpse supposed to look, like in the movies, nice and pretty like. Freaking ridiculous, it was not pretty that's for sure.

In fact one of the guys I work with, one night found another guy and acquaintance an older man drooped down on the floor in front of the vending machine, turns out the guy is a diabetic and literally passed out trying to get some candybars from the vending machine. Some people would have taken a picture stepped over the guy and went on there way with the daily grind, or gathered around and poked him with a stick. But chances are since it was during the night shift nobody would have found him till morning, and then they probably would have taken a picture with there cellphone, before calling the cops on a bum who seems to be sleeping on the floor in the building.

But this type of behavior is pretty typical, and its not no different then when in middle school everybody would gather around when somebody got in a fight, or something happened. While when you were a kid it was at the very least somewhat acceptable. Its kind of a different ballgame when you got an old lady just falling over all of a sudden. If you think about it, its sort of like vultures gathering over the corpse, just waiting and watching to see what will happen or for some sort of magical moment.

As for the elderly, some years ago was chatting with some people some were paramedics. And this case maybe the least grisly way to go. There are even stats on this but the majority of elderly who die, usually die in there house or apartment, and generally nobody even notices it as there usually more low key and keep to themselfs. But yes in general its only noticeable when somebody notices the smell coming from the place, or its time to pay the bills, and usually when they go in there they find a half decomposed corpse and then they call the paramedics. From all I heard its actually a pretty common way to go.

I agree with everyone that this is incredibly disrespectful. Someone is dying and you're banking on their misfortune to record it for entertainment. First of all, I get really irritated when my wife or I get recorded without our permission. I'm fine with being in the backdrop of tourists or security cameras but we're very selfish and my wife is mine and my wife says that I'm hers and hers only. So, with that in mind, this kind of behavior is unacceptable to us. I honestly wish I could break all of their cameras and punch each and every one of them in the face regardless of gender because they all deserve at least that. Imagine what was going through the mind of that person dying? Oh I'm dying, I hope I'm not dying, why are they recording me? This is a horrible feeling to have them stare like this. I don't want to die like this etc... etc...

I'll add a swift kick to the groin for guys and a falcon punch to the boobs for the girls for making her passing difficult and shameful. > : (

reply to post by mlifeoutthere


Or the let me post this on ATS mentality....


Nothing personal. It is just what humans do.