Comet ISON sweeps near sun, shows signs of life

reply to post by TheStev

It is possible to respectfully dispute the opinions of experts.

Something that we should start to do more often than we have.

I have been keeping track of all the Ison threads and have learned a great deal. If I had fallen in line with where the experts wanted me, I would not have learned a thing.

reply to post by TheStev

I think you are guilty of black and white thinking with this statement. Is it not possible to question the experts, and discuss the possibility that they are wrong, without 'writing them off' or belittling their training and experience? The way you write that, you make it seem like anyone who was unwilling to accept the assumption that ISON had died was claiming total intellectual superiority over the scientists involved.

That isn't exactly what I meant, and that wasn't directed at anyone specifically. And... it was an only an opinion/observation... you don't have to agree with it.

I have seen many people on here do exactly that, some even using quotes out of context to write off anything else they had to say about ISON.

"But even the experts say predicting comets is like predicting cats! Seeeee! Even they have NO IDEA what they are talking about!"

IDK.. I'm out until later when I'm feeling better.

About the tail. Those who like to see how that might behave:

I did a little amature study with a particle simulation; one for solar wind and one for gravity: So the actual tail will be in between, here is the result:

( Disclaimer: No scientific luggage involved) Solar wind influence:



Gravity influance:

reply to post by daryllyn


I had a feeling that wasn't exactly what you meant, but you did direct your comments at 'the ATS community at large'. As a member of that community, I felt compelled to respond.

Certainly there are members who are guilty of what you describe, I wouldn't disagree with that for a moment, but there are also members who will blindly accept anything 'official' as gospel. Ultimately both approaches are equally dangerous, going into anything blind is a really bad idea. But personally I can't help but think that those who blindly question are far more likely to come up with new perspectives and revolutionary ideas than those who blindly accept.

Hope you feel better soon

Back on subject, I really wish Karl would let us know his theory on why ISON didn't show up on SDO. Sure, the SDO guys know their equipment better, but clearly Karl knows the phenomenon of sun-grazing comets better - so I would think they are both well placed to theorise why ISON didn't show up as expected.

I'm not on Twitter, but it might be worth shooting a Tweet his way to see if he might give us a hint on his theory - since he's far more vocal and active than the SDO team and we're all hungry for information!

reply to post by TheStev

Hope you feel better soon

Thank you Migraines are horrible. Now that I am able to eat.... I'm feeling a lot better

Back on subject, I really wish Karl would let us know his theory on why ISON didn't show up on SDO. Sure, the SDO guys know their equipment better, but clearly Karl knows the phenomenon of sun-grazing comets better - so I would think they are both well placed to theorise why ISON didn't show up as expected.

I'm not on Twitter, but it might be worth shooting a Tweet his way to see if he might give us a hint on his theory - since he's far more vocal and active than the SDO team and we're all hungry for information!

I'll shoot him a tweet. He answered my last one, so maybe he will this time, too.

Edited to add: I sent a tweet but then I went to SDO's website and they have posted something about it. I skimmed it, but am going to back to have a proper read now.

sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov...

daryllyn

IkNOwSTuff
Phage was fairly certain it was dead.

I hope to God it is dead as Im pretty sure Phage being proven wrong is 1 of the signs that the apocalypse is upon us

edit on 29/11/2013 by IkNOwSTuff because: (no reason given)

I see A LOT of people giving phage a hard time because he said the comet was dead... but for quite a while... every single source available said that ISON didn't make it.

Absolutely right about that , The man once made an error and they pin em down on every ISON thread .. if people like him weren't around and they're more of the scholar types around here then this site would be just like all other UFO sites where they bluntly shout and would impose something you had to believe without your legs still on the ground.

I'm not always happy of what he says but he still keeps me thinking about other possibilities from other perspectives .

I sometimes also see threads were they literally ask of his opinion, well if he want to clear things up you don't have to ask for him because he would show up just as quick he left..

daryllyn
reply to post by TheStev

 

Back on subject, I really wish Karl would let us know his theory on why ISON didn't show up on SDO. Sure, the SDO guys know their equipment better, but clearly Karl knows the phenomenon of sun-grazing comets better - so I would think they are both well placed to theorise why ISON didn't show up as expected.

I'm not on Twitter, but it might be worth shooting a Tweet his way to see if he might give us a hint on his theory - since he's far more vocal and active than the SDO team and we're all hungry for information!

I'll shoot him a tweet. He answered my last one, so maybe he will this time, too.

Edited to add: I sent a tweet but then I went to SDO's website and they have posted something about it. I skimmed it, but am going to back to have a proper read now.

sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov...

edit on 29pmFri, 29 Nov 2013 15:25:01 -060013FridayFriday1311 by daryllyn because: (no reason given)

I don't understand much of what the article says that you linked to but it would be interesting to know how comet's "sneak by" as stated in this paragraph. Did it turn invisible for a minute?

[quote= nasa article]

We have now seen two sungrazing comets in SDO data. The first disappeared before its perihelion and Comet Lovejoy broke up after perihelion and eventually dissipated. We have also looked for at least two others. One never appeared, and now Comet ISON, which appears to have snuck by perihelion without a trace. We will work to understand what happened as Comet ISON, either as a remnant or debris, flew by the Sun.

reply to post by drivebricker


That's exactly what we're hoping Karl will speak to. The article you mention is specifically from SDO, therefore when they say 'sneak by' they are referring to the fact that it did not appear at all on the SDO.

I've had a brief read of the article and here is my layperson's interpretation:

The SDO looks at particular spectra of light and records images based on that. We would not have expected to see the same 'clear' image of the coma and tail that we see on SOHO images for example, instead we would see particular elements within the make-up of the comet as they react with the solar atmosphere. For this reason SDO was tuned to view the elements which were expected to react/be visible on the ISON pass.

Needless to say, this comet has consistently surprised the experts for as long as they've been following it. In fact, just before the approach Karl posted this on his blog. I'm not completely sure who 'Matthew' is, but I assume it is one of Karl's colleagues at the NRL

Indeed Matthew just said to me, "I have never seen light-curve behavior like this! It's doing completely different things in the different color filters!

He has looked at well over 1,000 sungrazing comets, so when he says a comet is weird... it's weird!

My (almost entirely uneducated) guess would be that the actual composition of ISON is something we haven't seen before, so SDO was just looking at the wrong spectrum when it was tuned for the ISON pass. But as this is uneducated I'd be very interested to see how others interpret this.

MESSENGER is now in a second extended mission, which is scheduled to conclude in March 2015. Dr. Sean C. Solomon, the Director of Columbia University's Lamont-Doherty Earth Observatory, leads the mission as Principal Investigator. The Johns Hopkins University Applied Physics Laboratory built and operates the MESSENGER spacecraft and manages this Discovery-class mission for NASA.

so i assume it is still functioning???

Three of MESSENGER's instruments -- MDIS, the Mercury Atmospheric and Surface Composition Spectrometer, and the X-Ray Spectrometer -- will be trained on the two comets and will collect as many observations as payload operational constraints will allow.


so where's the beef??

reply to post by TheStev


Interesting Indeed! Many thanks for your layman reply.

This baby KNOWS we're looking at it and it's giving us a show!

reply to post by TheStev


"so SDO was just looking at the wrong spectrum " correct spectrum/filter,, but bad guess,, they called it a PIXEL.


lol which tech. everything in a pic is made up of pixels,, so ya nasa double sqeek,,,i mean speak.

Dont forget it was the Russian Space Agency which "discovered ISON."

YEA nasa,,,,

reply to post by IkNOwSTuff


nobody's right all the time. not even god.

reply to post by maryhinge


And you can't forget to add the veiled doom porn hidden in bad english. Who can't love Cheesy?!?! If there was a One World Government I want Cheesy as President.

reply to post by soficrow


I tried to get on Soho for the Big event but wasn't able to connect until bout noon today!

IkNOwSTuff
reply to post by daryllyn

 

I see A LOT of people giving phage a hard time because he said the comet was dead... but for quite a while... every single source available said that ISON didn't make it.

Im not having a go at him, just having some fun

I personally imagine him not as a person but some sort of experiment consisting of a warehouse full of old PCs that have been rewired and connected then made into the semblance of human consciousness. Computers dont have feelings so I dont think even if he saw it he would have been offended

Damn.....I was trying to figure that out,....And you figured it out for me thank you......

LightAssassin
reply to post by maryhinge

 

And you can't forget to add the veiled doom porn hidden in bad english. Who can't love Cheesy?!?! If there was a One World Government I want Cheesy as President.

edit on 29-11-2013 by LightAssassin because: (no reason given)

I second that motion.............

The polish1

Hey Cheesy, I was down all day because I thought that It didn't survive. I now have a sense of vindication, as you should also.

The Underdog CAN, BUT not always come up on top.

Keep the info comin Bro.....

symptomoftheuniverse


But EVERY source available said it was gone at the time. I thought it was gone, too.... lots of people did.

the experts said it had gone before its close encounter,they did not wait to see if it reapeared. There were lots on ats who said wait and see however even after it reappeared they still proclaimed its gone. People should learn to trust their eyes and not other peoples "superior " eyes.

Be careful, a comment like that will throw you automatically in the crazy, fanatical doom porn crowd..... like it did me.
Don't question the experts, they know what they're talking about...... the perceived object appearing from behind the sun is nothing more a lens flare or sun dog/cat