Astrologers welcome!

reply to post by onequestion


By 13th i assume u mean this,,




the "here part was in relation too Comet ISON,, which came out of Cancer,,,lower right near,, foot of guy holding Serpent,, crossing the galactic plane,, as i understand it.

Any more info on this,,13th Zodiac,, interests me as well.



my red dot was a bit too high,,,

should have been in middle of Cancer.

onequestion
reply to post by midnightstars

 

Thanks for the info. I am busy all day so it takes me time during the weeks to get to ATS i usually dont log in till about 9-10. But trust me i appreciate it.

OK. I understand that it can be difficult to make time for ATS.
I just didn't want to do your chart, only to discover that you had abandoned the thread.

I am googling everything you've talked about and trying to learn about it as you read this.

Spoken like a true Gemini. Geminis tend to be info junkies. As I said before, your Gemini Ascendant is loaded -- you're very Gemini (a Mutable Air sign). Plus your Mercury in Gemini is very strong, it owns the sign.

Ive never heard of sidereal astrology until you spoke about it in this thread. I am very interested in learning about it and i am curious about astrology with 13 zodiacs.

Do you find this is more accurate or relevant?

Yes, a Sidereal natal chart is much more accurate than the Tropical in almost every case.

Let me give you the quick & dirty on Sidereal vs Tropical:

Ptolemy (the father of Western astrology) used a zodiac that started on the Vernal Equinox. The Aries Ingress (0° Aries) began when day and night were of equal length (between March 19 & 21). This is called the Tropical Zodiac.

The Tropical zodiac and the Sidereal zodiac were identical in 221 AD. These two zodiacs have diverged at the rate of 1° every 71 ½ years. Unlike the Sidereal or Vedic (Hindu) astrologers, European astrologers did not adjust the Aries Ingress for the “Precession of the Equinoxes.”

Today, the divergence between the Fagan-Bradley Sidereal zodiac and the Tropical zodiac is almost 25°. That’s almost one sign off.

There’s plenty of detailed info online on the “Precession of the Equinoxes.”

As for the 13th sign (not 13 zodiacs), that's more difficult to explain. I'm about to explain it to BobAthome, since he expressed an interest. Read my response to Bob, hopefully that should explain it to you.

BobAthome
reply to post by onequestion

 

By 13th i assume u mean this,,

(pic deleted)

the "here part was in relation too Comet ISON,, which came out of Cancer,,,lower right near,, foot of guy holding Serpent,, crossing the galactic plane,, as i understand it.

Any more info on this,,13th Zodiac,, interests me as well.

my red dot was a bit too high,,,

should have been in middle of Cancer.

Ophiuchus – again! Let me try to explain this “13th sign” as simply as I can:

During a conference in 1930, the International Astronomical Union (IAU) decided to “align the IAU zodiac with the 1875 northern Vernal Equinox which took place on 21 March 1875 at 00:35 hrs when the Sun was at seven (7) degrees Pisces on the Fagan Sidereal Zodiac.”

Note that this was a conference of astronomers, not astrologers.

The IAU zodiac with its 13 signs was never meant to be used for Astrology.

The constellations Scorpio and Ophiuchus parallel each other.

The astrological sign of Scorpio has always incorporated the meaning of Ophiuchus, which is why healing and the serpent has always been associated with the sign of Scorpio, along with the eagle and the obvious scorpion.

Note that the astrological sign of Scorpio is not the same thing as the constellation of Scorpio.

I can’t emphasize enough that the astronomical IAU zodiac used by astronomers was never meant to be used by astrologers.

Astronomers are not concerned with reading meaning into the constellations.

Astrological zodiacal Signs mean much more than the literal star constellations, they may or may not encompass.

It is no accident that the astrological zodiac is divided into 12 signs (of 30 degrees each) to create a 360 degree wheel.
The numbers used have meaning.

The astronomical IAU zodiac of 13 constellations is irregular. But it does not matter because astronomers are not concerned with reading metaphysical or symbolic meaning into the star constellations or using astrological aspects.

However, for the purposes of Astrology, a perfectly symmetrical zodiac is imperative for a mathematical system of aspects to work.

What has created so much confusion about Ophiuchus, is the work of British astrologer, Walter Berg.

In 1995, Berg published a book, “The 13 Signs of the Zodiac” wherein he used the IAU zodiac for Astrology, a purpose the irregular astronomical IAU zodiac was never designed for.

If for some reason you want to identify with Ophiuchus instead of Sidereal Scorpio, you can do what you want.

Some believe that those most affected by Ophiuchus were born between Nov 29 to Dec 15 (using the Sidereal zodiac).

reply to post by midnightstars

You have provided a very detailed and useful explanation of the two astrological systems and argued in favour of the sidereal system which you use.

I myself will stick with the tropical system which I am more comfortable with. I am more interested with the space behind the constellations rather than the constellation themselves. The sidereal system ties the constellation with the zodiac sign but the tropical system does not. Both system seek mathematical symmetry and geometry. This is shown by the division of 360 degrees into 30 degree signs in both cases.

Both systems adopt the geocentric view (i.e. Earth is the centre and the Sun revolves around). This is a scientific fallacy as we all know but nevertheless it has symbolic validity.

If we were doing the chart of the cosmic consciousness we would probably use an Heliocentric method (with Sun as centre). If we are charting the progress of a human being on earth , the geocentric view is natural. All symbolic !

crowdedskies
reply to post by midnightstars

 

You have provided a very detailed and useful explanation of the two astrological systems and argued in favour of the sidereal system which you use.

I myself will stick with the tropical system which I am more comfortable with. I am more interested with the space behind the constellations rather than the constellation themselves. The sidereal system ties the constellation with the zodiac sign but the tropical system does not. Both system seek mathematical symmetry and geometry. This is shown by the division of 360 degrees into 30 degree signs in both cases.

Both systems adopt the geocentric view (i.e. Earth is the centre and the Sun revolves around). This is a scientific fallacy as we all know but nevertheless it has symbolic validity.

If we were doing the chart of the cosmic consciousness we would probably use an Heliocentric method (with Sun as centre). If we are charting the progress of a human being on earth , the geocentric view is natural. All symbolic !

No argument, crowdedskies. You do what's comfortable for you. I started out using the Tropical zodiac, as most Western astrologers do.

Most astrologers in the West have been very resistant to the Sidereal zodiac. If a person has invested many years (sometimes a lifetime) to studying a particular system, they don't want to hear that that system may not be the best.

In any case, the Universe is large enough to encompass many different kinds of Astrology and it's not my mission to convert people. I don't have the time or energy.

Peace.

wow ive gotten more then i could have hoped for in this thread this is great!

Thank you both i am learn from your discussion am not as versed as either of you i am just a curious soul.

Thanks again and i rereading all your post now.

reply to post by onequestion


I come to this thread very late and have read the other posters' very appropriate interpretations of your chart.
I find your chart very difficult to read as it's presented here and have not time enough to re-draft it in my formula.
So my interpretation is very superficial because of that. As I said, these are only additional comments.

What stands out to me is a sense of narcissism and superficiality. It could also be the chart of a con-person, but this action will not set you free. You have to be careful not to roll over the backs of others for your own gain.

It's interesting that you would seek guidance at this time: this is your 'Saturn return', which occurs at roughly 27-29 years old, when Saturn completes its full cycle, returning to its natal position. This is a time of reckoning, when it could signify to many either their own death...OR...a renewal and start of another 28 year cycle of their life. This is a very important crossroads in our astro charts. This is when one must fess up to behaviors that one's psyche doesn't really agree with, and to remedy those attitudes that lead to these unwanted behaviors. It's the time to finally GROW UP and take responsibility for whatever one's life stands for.

I do so wish that there was an Astrology section on this site. We sure could do with one. So thank you for bringing this up
OneQuestion, why don't you get onto some of the astrology forums, where you could get a more substantial interpretation of your chart by professionals and other avid astrologers?

reply to post by Starling


My life is changing so rapidly its incredible. Thanks for responding.

What can i be expecting astrologically with this saturn return? Im interested in this because its happening.

onequestion
reply to post by Starling

 

My life is changing so rapidly its incredible. Thanks for responding.

What can i be expecting astrologically with this saturn return? Im interested in this because its happening.

Starling is right about your Saturn Return.

Transiting Saturn will be exactly conjuncting your Natal Saturn on 29 Jan 2014 & 20 Oct 2014.

It’s a major milestone in a person’s life, and can be a very difficult period with a lot of potential shake-ups.
Possible divorce, change of living circumstances, change of career, etc. Usually there’s a re-evaluation of one’s identity and previous life choices. It’s considered the point where most assume the mantle of adulthood. You’re not a kid anymore.

Right now you have Transiting Mars going thru your 4th House (Sidereal Virgo) and squaring everything in your 1st House.
It’s also affecting your 10th House of Careers. It has already hit your Rising Degree, and today is exactly squaring your Sun.

Your Natal Mars conjoins both your Sun & Mercury anyway, so there’s a definite “feistiness” in your character that can create situations of conflict & even possible violence – most probably thru your words. You’re a “smart mouth” who can sass back to cops & other authority figures, not wise. (These natal conjunctions are not all bad in themselves; Mars can add energy to the basic personality and sharpness to the mind).

However, this Transiting Mars can forebode danger. Be alert to potential fires in your home. Don’t run electric space heaters on high, certainly not for more than a few minutes. Most electrical fires start at the outlet. Don’t use the oven to heat your home. Don’t leave candles burning. Be aware of where you’re burning incense, etc.

Avoid nasty, fighting words at home & in the workplace. Drive with caution, especially during this period. Avoid areas where fights can break out, bars or sports arenas for example.

I don’t have time to look at all of your transits for the coming year, never my intention anyway.
I haven’t even started writing out my thoughts on your natal chart yet.

reply to post by midnightstars

Your Natal Mars conjoins both your Sun & Mercury anyway, so there’s a definite “feistiness” in your character that can create situations of conflict & even possible violence – most probably thru your words. You’re a “smart mouth” who can sass back to cops & other authority figures, not wise. (These natal conjunctions are not all bad in themselves; Mars can add energy to the basic personality and sharpness to the mind).

Wow, spot on. I am definitely a fiesty character. Interesting the mars

Right now you have Transiting Mars going thru your 4th House (Sidereal Virgo) and squaring everything in your 1st House. It’s also affecting your 10th House of Careers. It has already hit your Rising Degree, and today is exactly squaring your Sun.

I love this type of analysis. I like to go and try and read up on all these and try to understand it better!

Thanks i really appreciate it midnight!

reply to post by onequestion

It is important to say a few words about the hard natal aspect between Jupiter and Saturn. They are at an angle of approximately 90 degrees to each other which is considered a difficult aspect in astrology.

As mentioned by the other posters, the Saturn return is a time of reckoning; a time to learn lessons. The return of transiting Saturn to its natal position will enhance this affliction between the two planets and this is happening to you at this moment.

One basic interpretation of a natal affliction of Jupiter and Saturn is the seesaw effect of over-optimism and despair. You swing between the two. Therefore I hope it will make you feel better to know that it is all down to these two heavyweights and there is nothing wrong with you.

The position of Saturn by astrological house suggest feelings of inadequacy and the need for approval . It also suggests bad judgement in business and speculation. This is also confirmed by the affliction with Jupiter. In addition, the conflict of these two planets within the psyche leads to a swinging between honesty and dishonesty ; good and evil. Be careful not to sell your soul and put practicality before meaning.

The poster Starling mentioned that the chart gave the impression of being that of a conman. I would agree with that to the extent that the chart has a lot of fluidity within ; not to mention the very visible opposition between Neptune (Greek god Poseidon) and the Sun at birth. How this fluidity is expressed depends on your outlook. It is therefore important that you analyse your motives and reconcile the conflicts within you so that you emerge from your Saturn return with the strength to build success.

reply to post by crowdedskies

One basic interpretation of a natal affliction of Jupiter and Saturn is the seesaw effect of over-optimism and despair. You swing between the two. Therefore I hope it will make you feel better to know that it is all down to these two heavyweights and there is nothing wrong with you.

Wow that was dead spot on. Thats exactly what im going through. You can even see it in my post on ATS.

When is this over?

onequestion
reply to post by crowdedskies

 

One basic interpretation of a natal affliction of Jupiter and Saturn is the seesaw effect of over-optimism and despair. You swing between the two. Therefore I hope it will make you feel better to know that it is all down to these two heavyweights and there is nothing wrong with you.

Wow that was dead spot on. Thats exactly what im going through. You can even see it in my post on ATS.

When is this over?

edit on 6-12-2013 by onequestion because: (no reason given)

I have not read your other ATS threads as it would influence my thoughts.

You asked when will it be over. Saturn will be lingering around its natal position for quite a while. As Midnightstars mentioned, it it about to touch its exact natal position . Then it will go in reverse for a little while (called "retrograde ") and then forward again and hit the natal position once more in October 2014.

Since Saturn appears to rule both your self-expression and partnership matters in your chart you should expect these areas to be affected. In addition Jupiter is transiting your first house giving you over-confidence in new project.

As Saturn is the great teacher and diciplinarian, it goes without saying that if you learn your lessons this time round the next 29-year cycle will be good. If not then the same lessons will need to be learned.

Any difficulty that you experience around this time will be self-generated. The conflict is very much inside rather than outside but it gets projected to the outside world (people and circumstances) .

The lesson to be learned is that you need to find your true identity. You have been trying too hard to please and succeed. Not knowing who you truly are will not bring success. It is time to stop seeking applause or measuring success on the basis of what others think. You need to find your own road to success.

The real identity that you need to find is like a pearl deep in the ocean. You will need to dive deep and luckily for you Pluto is there to help

reply to post by crowdedskies


That really does sum up what im going through.

Interesting about the identity part, howd you come to that conclusion? Is there a way to read more about that?

reply to post by onequestion


Some things I need to make clear before launching into the reading.

Instead of being forced to spell out Sidereal every time, I will simply use a capital “S.” I will use “T” for Tropical.

As an example, onequestion’s Moon is in T Cancer, but in S Gemini.

I will use Asc for Ascendant and Desc for Descendant.

I will use MC (Medium Coeli, Latin for “middle of the sky”) for the Midheaven.

I will use IC (Imum Coeli, is Latin for “bottom of the sky”) for the Nadir.

(Note to other astrologers, all the cardinal points I use in this chart are the same for Placidus, except it’s on the Sidereal zodiac.)

I use both the traditional counter-clockwise (CCW) numbering system for the houses and the Dorsan clockwise (CW) numbering system. That means most of the houses will impact at least two areas of life.

As an example, onequestion’s Venus occupies both the CCW 11th house and the CW 3rd house.

This is the Clockwise House System proposed by Jacques Dorsan and popularized by Robert Powell. Dorsan was and Powell is a Siderealist.

I do not have the glyphs for the planets and aspects on this program, so they will be spelled out.

As an example, onequestion’s natal S Gemini Sun opposes (opposition 180°) his natal S Sagittarius Neptune R.

I will use “R” after the planet name to indicate Retrograde, onequestion has a retrograde Neptune.

Seconds will be rounded off to the closest minute, except for the most important factors.

The following are onequestion’s luminaries, planets, and cardinal points on the Sidereal zodiac using the Lahiri ayanamsha:

Ascendant S Gemini 3° 35’ 34” 1st House

Descendant S Sagittarius 3° 35’ 34” 7th House

MC (Midheaven) S Aquarius 19° 32’ 25” CCW 9th House, CW 4th House*

IC (Nadir) S Leo 19° 32’ 25” CCW 3rd House, CW 10th House*

Sun S Gemini 5° 22’ 53” 1st House

Moon S Gemini 28° 8’ 34” 1st House

Mercury S Gemini 20° 2’ 1st House

Venus ♀ S Aries 19° 50’ 11th CCW House, 3rd CW House

Mars ♂ S Gemini 13° 39’ 1st House

Jupiter R S Capricorn 22° 56’ CCW 8th House, CW 6th House

Saturn R S Libra 28° 47’ CCW 5th House, CW9th House

Uranus R S Scorpio 21° 47’ CCW 6th House, CW 8th House

Neptune R S Sagittarius 8° 41’ 7th House

Pluto R S Libra 8° 24’ CCW 5th House, CW 9th House

North Node (True) S Aries 23° 52’ CCW 11th House, CW 3rd House

East Point S Taurus 22° 4’ 57” CCW 12th House, CW 2nd House

AntiVertex S Aries 19° 7’ 5” CCW 11th House, CW 3rd House

Chiron S Taurus16° 49’ CCW 12th House, CW 2nd House

Part of Fortune S Taurus 10° 49’ 52” CCW 12th House, CW 2nd House

Ceres S Gemini 10° 52’ 7” 1st House

*Note to astrologers, I’m using the ancient Whole Sign Houses, but also use the MC to delineate 10th House matters, even when & if it falls in a different sign from the WS 10th House. I also use the IC for 4th House matters, even when & if it falls in a different sign from the WS 4th House, as in onequestion’s chart.

This can be really confusing to traditional astrologers because the CW 4th House has the same meaning as the CCW 10th House and vice versa.

In the next post I will be discussing onequestion’s Almuten.

reply to post by onequestion


Almuten (Arabic) can correspond with the term Chara Atma Karaka (Sanskrit).

I see the term Almuten is used by some to simply mean the planet exalted in a particular sign,

I use the term Almuten to mean the “Birth Ruler,” the planet that symbolizes the “Soul of the Natal Chart.”

The Almuten is not the same thing as the “Ruler of the Ascendant” or the “Final Dispositor” of the chart.

However in this case, in onequestion’s chart, the Almuten is also both the Ruler of the Ascendant & the Final Dispositor. It gives this planet enormous emphasis and power.

The Almuten is calculated using a Western method based on the Shadbalas, wherein each planet (in this particular chart) is given a numerical value based on the power of the planet according to the Ascendant, the sign that it occupies, the house that it occupies, the affinity with the house that it occupies, the sex of the sign it occupies, and the planet’s motion speed, etc.

The following are the numerical values of onequestion’s planets:

Mercury 30
Mars 27
Sun 21
Saturn 16
Neptune 15
Venus 13
Uranus 13
Pluto 13
Moon 8
Jupiter 1

You can see by this list that Mercury, Mars, and the Sun are by far the strongest planets in onequestion’s chart. Jupiter is the weakest.

I hope onequestion is a man because this chart is overwhelmingly masculine; it will work better for a man.
Six planets in Air. Two in Fire signs. One in Earth. One in Water.

Five planets in Mutable signs. Four in Cardinal signs. One in Fixed. Very fluid, initiatory energy overall. Definitely not stuck in the mud.

Seven luminaries & planets below the horizon, three planets above the horizon.

Onequestion’s Almuten is Mercury.

The native is cautioned to “control his speech and be truthful at all times.” Not an easy command to follow in all situations.

Green emeralds belong to Mercury, and are worn as amulets to remedy a weak Mercury.
The size (at least 2 carats, the larger the better); quality (as clear as possible, this is difficult with “wild” emeralds because they tend to be occluded); and color of the stone are extremely important when used as a remedy (you want it to be as close to grass or Kelly green as possible).

I would recommend real emeralds grown in a lab (this is not a synthetic emerald, a lab-grown emerald has the same crystalline structure, mineral content, hardness, etc. as a “wild” emerald). The only difference between a “wild” emerald and a lab-grown emerald is that one is found growing haphazardly in nature and the other is purposely grown from a seed crystal in a lab. Also a lab-grown emerald has no occlusions and is as clear as glass. Beautiful.

Other green stones can be used, a green tourmaline for example. A translucent grass green Imperial jadeite. But these are not cheap either. The Chinese have treasured Imperial jade for ages and have been buying it up like crazy. Remember jadeite, never nephrite for this purpose. The stone should touch the skin.

There’s tons of info online about the astrological meaning of Mercury, so I’m not typing that out here. But there are some things I want to point out.

Thoth, Hermes, and Mercury were enormously powerful gods of the ancient world.

At it’s best, Mercury (Mercurius in Latin) is the “Messenger of the Gods” and can move freely between the worlds of the mortal and divine.

To the ancient Romans, he was the “patron god of financial gain, commerce, eloquence (and thus poetry), messages/communication (including divination), travelers, boundaries, luck, trickery and thieves.” Like the Egyptian Thoth, he could guide the soul to the underworld.
Like the Greek God, Hermes, the Roman Mercury wore “winged shoes (talaria) and a winged hat (petasos), and carried the caduceus (a herald's staff with two entwined snakes that was Apollo’s gift to Hermes).”

The tortoise represented “Mercury's legendary invention of the lyre from a tortoise shell” and is a reference to his status as inventor of all the Fine Arts, not just music.

“Like Hermes, he was also a god of messages, eloquence and of trade, particularly of the grain trade.” I found this interesting since you have your Gemini Asc., Gemini Sun, and S Gemini Mars all conjoined with the major asteroid, Ceres, goddess of grain, in S Gemini. But more about that later.

The Egyptian Ibis-headed god, Thoth (scribe of the gods), was a major god who had the role of “maintaining the universe” (very significant when you consider the power of words to create our worlds). He oversaw the balance between Good & Evil. He gave the power of speech and the written word to Man, and was deeply connected to the Magickal Arts of the ancient Egyptians.

The Greeks gave Thoth the title Hermes Trismegistus, the purported author of the Hermetic Corpus (of which the “Emerald Tablet” is one), a collection of sacred texts that are the foundation of Hermeticism.

To the Egyptians, he was “the author of all works of science, religion, philosophy, and magic. The Greeks further declared him the inventor of astronomy, astrology, mathematics, geometry, medicine, botany, theology, civilized government, the alphabet, and oratory. They further claimed he was the true author of every work of every branch of knowledge, human and divine.”

Thoth, Hermes, and Mercury were the patron gods of writing, astrology, alchemy, and magic. I don’t think I can overstate how powerful a God Mercury is, at its best, and he represents the “soul of your nativity.”

However, I need to warn you about the shadow side of Mercury. Mercury at its worse is a glib con artist, a slippery flimflam man, a liar & a thief – completely untrustworthy. He’s the silver-tongued, handsome, shallow actor who is all image and no substance.

The next thing I’ll post on (when I have time) is your 1st House. It’s complicated. You have a lot going on in your chart. It’s actually an interesting chart.
Later.

reply to post by midnightstars

The next thing I’ll post on (when I have time) is your 1st House. It’s complicated. You have a lot going on in your chart. It’s actually an interesting chart.

Interesting id like to hear more about that.

Between you and crowded this is the most intimate encounter i have ever had with astrology and i love it! Thats so much information its going to take me a while to completely understand it.

It seems like ill be looking at this thread learning about myself and astrology for a while, while i learn and interpret what your telling me.

This is awesome and i appreciate it more then you know.

onequestion
reply to post by crowdedskies

 

That really does sum up what im going through.

Interesting about the identity part, howd you come to that conclusion? Is there a way to read more about that?

The identity part was mostly based on Saturn in the 5th House. If you want to learn more perhaps you can google "Saturn in the 5th House".

reply to post by onequestion


onequestion,

Thank you for posting your chart and thanks also to midnightstars and crowdedskies for answering your questions. It is very helpful to me too.

I have just begun studying astrology this last year and I'm up to my neck trying to get a more clear understanding. I really appreciate crowedskies and midnightstars interpretations and in depth explanations. Very insightful.

I won't venture to answer your request onequestion, because I'm very new to this and I am just learning to read my own chart and understand its implications in my own life. I too am begining to fell the effects of a Saturn return, but I am twice your age and I believe even now that it is manifesting in many changes in my life and my understanding.

These two members are offering you an inside look at youself and you are blessed to get it. To my understanding of the art,it is a large labor of love and a serious undertaking to interpret a chart. You are getting an incredible opportunity to learn about yourself and I know that can benefit you greatly if you take it heart.

That being said, thanks again for the post and thanks to the others for helping with this reading. It is giving me a lot to read and study and I am grateful to have stepped into this thread!

onequestion
reply to post by midnightstars

 

The next thing I’ll post on (when I have time) is your 1st House. It’s complicated. You have a lot going on in your chart. It’s actually an interesting chart.

Interesting id like to hear more about that.

Between you and crowded this is the most intimate encounter i have ever had with astrology and i love it! Thats so much information its going to take me a while to completely understand it.

It seems like ill be looking at this thread learning about myself and astrology for a while, while i learn and interpret what your telling me.

This is awesome and i appreciate it more then you know.

I stopped to look at your Navamsha chart, and I'm glad I did. It has important effects on how your natal chart is read. More on that later. There are a few more things I want to look at before I start writing about your 1st House. If I don't get to it tonight, I will be surprised if it's ready by tomorrow night. Tomorrow is a very busy day for me.

Later.