Gravity the perennial force a theory

Gravity the perennial and mysterious force that has to date evaded the modern human mind to comprehend. Well i dont proclaim to have the answer at all but i just want to propose an idea for thought.

The picture you see (below) is a Vandergraph generator which splits up charge as can be seen in the diagram into plus (+ve) and negative (-ve) charge distributions. I think most people in their life have seen a demonsttation of one of these things so no need to explain its effects.

To start of this theory I propose to consider for a moment that cosmic rays are a form of radatiating heat that holds and its promulgates its energy as the negative (-ve) charge distribution.

The next thing to consider in this theory is that a fundamental until of mass (an atom for argument sake) exists due to a mechansim which takes places at the atomic level. A distinguishing feature of this mechanism is the existance of two poles of charge distribution. This mechanism is analogous and operates at the atomic level on the same principal as the internal mechanism shown in the Vandergragh generator (where we see the +Ve and -Ve charges split between the motion of two wheels connected togther by the pulley).


The comic rays from space hit the atom which divides up the heat energy into two layers of charge, which become distributed between the different +ve and -ve rotations in the atom. Some of the (-ve) is radiated back to the space source, but the rate is not fast enough to prevent an accumalation of the + ve charge which accumulates on the outer energy shell of atom.





This process would start at the gaseous cloud stage and cause cosmic dust to be attracted to the focal point of the accumulating positive charge sounding the atom. In other words a dense region of cosmic dust is forming (spherical in shape) around the positive charge region. This is because the dust in the sphere is dominated by the (+ve) region of charge.

The process is dependant on conversion of cosmic rays to heat, and the heating up of the region where the charge is being accumulated in the dust cloud. Eventually however an equilibrium is reached where the region of mass starts to collapse on its self and cool into a perceivable solid sphere. The equilbrium is reached betwee +ve and - ve charge is the gravity effect we experience.

We dont notice we are electrically charged ourselfs because relative to all objects around us we are at the same potential. If we travel vertically away from the surface of the sphere of (-ve) charge the charge distribution we hold in our atoms, is converted at an atomic level from kinetic motiion to potential engery so we dont notice any electrical effect.

Before all the knockers come flying in, consider a few things i dont necessary believe this is the explanation for gravity its simply an idea i had while looking a the fundamental principal of the Vandergraph, and also reading an article that cosmic rays from space may be the initiators for lighting on earth, just made me start thinking.

Looks like you're just reinventing the old "electric universe" theory.

AthlonSavage
Gravity the perennial and mysterious force that has to date evaded the modern human mind to comprehend.

Because Gravity is difficult, lets just pretend it doesnt exist, shall we?

Heat isn't charge. Heat doesn't carry charge.

eta:

What you take away from a van de Graaff generator is that charge doesn't appear inside a closed conductor. That's what makes the magic. The electrons can't stay inside the metal globe, they're forced to immediately move to the outer surface of the sphere.

reply to post by AthlonSavage


My question to you, if i am understanding you correctly would be, How could anything in the universe come to be if it takes gravity to make cosmic rays in the first place?

reply to post by AthlonSavage


Looks like gravity is pulling down your theory.

AthlonSavage
We dont notice we are electrically charged ourselfs because relative to all objects around us we are at the same potential.

Au contraire.

I think the reason that gravity defies scientific explanation is because it is the one place... In physics that physically represents the unknowable. If you master gravity then the physical universe will become manipulatable, we will learn to use it but I doubt we will ever fit it into the puzzle.

damwel
I think the reason that gravity defies scientific explanation is because it is the one place...

The reason gravity is so difficult is that is such a weak force, almost non existent, that its almost impossible to do big experiments with it.

Cant recall where I read it, but somewhere on the net is a thought experiment:
Imagine that you are on a spaceship travelling between distant places. If you were born on that spaceship, you could actually go your whole life without ever knowing that the fundamental force of gravity even exists.
In the spaceship laboratory, you could do all sorts of experiments with the electromagnetic force, and if you have any kind of radioactive stuff on board (perhaps from your nuclear engines) then you could even study the strong and weak nuclear forces.
But gravity, being so weak, may slip your notice altogether.

As a layman I like your theory. If your theory doesn't explain gravity, then could it possibly be utilised to create an Anti-Gravity aircraft.

Theoretically if like charges repell, then maybe a vehicle with a massive Vandergragh engine could defy gravity. The inner shell being negative and outer shell being positive or vice versa?

Albeit such a vehicle would have to be created from some of the lightest composite materials known to man, yet strong enough to carry a Vandergraph motor of immense power.

Trubeeleever
Theoretically if like charges repell, then maybe a vehicle with a massive Vandergragh engine could defy gravity. The inner shell being negative and outer shell being positive or vice versa?

But of course you would not have to build the entire machine to test the theory.
Test instrumentation is quite sensitive and accurate nowdays. A test rig with 0.0000001 of the power would be enough to test the concept.
In fact, you could probably do it with a 9 volt battery, a few sheets of copper, and a lab balance.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if the concept worked, it would have been discovered by accident a million times over by a million different people already.

But back in the real world...

Therefore a way to test theory is build a electric craft. Craft is treated like one side of capacitor. If gravity is electric force by nature then the sun can treated as a power source and earth capacitive circuit element. All energy is locked in some form inside the circuit path (as shown in drawing). An electric craft would be constructed to allow charging its top half, and then once fully charged flicking a switch to connect to lower half of craft (both super conducting metals with no resistance). The charge movement would make a movement of charge so the earth has a potential different to craft causing an electric force that moves craft up wards (the motion converting kinetic engery to potential energy) which allows craft to me elevated to height above earth not falling back, unless the crafts power generation is reversed to the reduce charge effect on craft skin causing craft to fall back to earth like a slink spring losing its energy.

Cosmic rays are also atoms, or more over can be either, electrons, protons, alphas that originate from outside the solar system. Solar wind is not the same as cosmic rays.

Anyway Id also like to point out that while there are a lot of misconceptions about gravity I come across on this forum many misconceptions about how charge works too.

Do you know how much cosmic rays would be required to heat an object?

At energies of the order 10^11 we observe 1 particle per second per square meter, But it is logarithmicly increasing to lower energys, so from a spectrum it peaks at around 10^9 with about 100/second.

Lets for argument sake say that the average energy per particle is 10^10 and we get 500 a second fair? Now lets assume ALL that energy is deposited and comes out thermal.

1ev = 1.602x10^-19 J

we have 1.602x10^-19 x 10^10 * 500 = 801 nW/m^2

The solar flux is roughly 1.4kW/m^2

I think you can see were I am going with this already... the energy deposited by cosmic rays per meter square is about scale factor of 5.7x10^10... for all intent and purposes we probably get more extra energy reflected from the moon per meter square than we do cosmic rays. (that last statement is a guess)


When you talk on the particle level or lets say objects the size of dust, You cannot say that, a +ve charged bit of dust attracts a cloud of other stuff. It will attract stuff, but any other -ve charged objects surrounding it, will shield the apparent charge to a great extent. This is how some, 'SOME' atomic physics works, with inner electrons shielding the charge of the nucleus from the outer.

Gravity does not exhibit this effect. It appears on the scales we observe on Earth to only ever be additive. Even on the planetary level it is only ever additive. Even on the scales of a single galaxy this is true.

What makes us scratch our heads is when we go to extra galactic, and I don't mean local cluster, i mean high redshift clusters, seem to exhibit a kind of gravitational repulsion beyond what is expected.

Electricity, moreover, is not only multiplying, day by day, the resources it offers to mankind, but appears to be about to irradiate science with a new light. It seemed, therefore, by no means impossible that electricity, modified by certain circumstances, or some other unknown agent, might be the cause.


lnk

Shadow Herder
Electricity, moreover, is not only multiplying, day by day, the resources it offers to mankind, but appears to be about to irradiate science with a new light. It seemed, therefore, by no means impossible that electricity, modified by certain circumstances, or some other unknown agent, might be the cause.

We are far from knowing all the secret agencies of nature, or all the properties of those which are known to us.
Do we not see electricity overthrow buildings, uproot trees, and hurl to considerable distances the heaviest bodies, attracting or repelling, as the case may be?

alfa1

Shadow Herder
Electricity, moreover, is not only multiplying, day by day, the resources it offers to mankind, but appears to be about to irradiate science with a new light. It seemed, therefore, by no means impossible that electricity, modified by certain circumstances, or some other unknown agent, might be the cause.

We are far from knowing all the secret agencies of nature, or all the properties of those which are known to us.
Do we not see electricity overthrow buildings, uproot trees, and hurl to considerable distances the heaviest bodies, attracting or repelling, as the case may be?

YES !www.spiritwritings.com...

reply to post by AthlonSavage


I believe there has been something obviously missed in the understanding between electric current, magnetic fields and electric fields. Following from my examples above, I think (speculate) the missing thing is that change magnetic fields can affect polarity of charge.

for example heres a diagram of capacitor the charge accumulates between two plates.



As explained in my diagrams earlier an electric craft could be constructed where craft holds one distribution of charge and the earth another, like a capacitor. Thinking about it more we only need to the ability (if it exists) to reverse polarity of one plate, which doesn't compromise the electric force between the charge groups other than reverse them, e.g they push from each instead of pull.


I propose an experiment wrap a coils around one plate holding charge distribution and excite it with different frequencies. This is to test if a changing magnetic field at a certain frequency can reverse the polarity. If this was achievable, then basically a craft could then be treated like one point charge and the earth another, both having instaneously the same charge polarity, e.g two -ve charges repel eacother.

I think the ancients studied the mathematics of geometries looking for ratios which define a natural frequency between mass volume and motion. I don't necessary believe Aliens brought them knowledge of anti gravity. For example.

If Mass/volume = Circumference/Radius
Make Circumference = Wavelength =Velocity/Frequency
(Mass/Volume) x Radius = Velocity/Frequency
(Mass/Volume) x R x F = V
Density x Radius xFrequency = Velocity

Thought number 2.

If the earth is saturated in positive charges, and the upper atmosphere is saturated with negative charges, then would it be possible to cover the outside of the space shuttle in negatively charged material to minimise heat upon re-entry?

AthlonSavage
...
The comic rays from space hit the atom ...

I like comic rays from space.

I've known people to even emit comic rays.

We wouldn't have laughter and amusement without comic rays.

You might be onto something here on that one sentence alone.