Tired of Anti-US Americans

your talking about the how they lied to us during vietnam, and why are we at war now

Originally posted by t0013374sk001
your talking about the how they lied to us during vietnam, and why are we at war now

You must be addressing me. And yes I am. Vietnam was not teh first time, nor will it be the last. History has a nasty habit of repeating itself, and it seems to have done so again with Iraq.

The point of it is simple. If you expect the American public to sit back and say absolutely nothing against the president's policies when he makes a decision on war, then you send the message that whatever he does is totally backed. With no opposition from the electorate, he feels empowered to do as he wishes, and considering that in four years he can do a lot of damage, I doubt you truly want the public to "shut up."

Originally posted by Durden

Originally posted by spacedoubt
There is no labeling in my title...There are anti-US americans..

You seem like a smart guy, spacedoubt. Don't make me a liar for saying so.

Things aren't always what they seem...LOL..Ok, sometimes they are..

To me Labeling means "generalization". I didn't mean for that to be a generalization. I meant that there are people who equate the election of Bush,
to be a removal of "their" America, so they no longer feel the need to support
the fact that we are at war, and jump on everything that they can to undermine the Administration, ALL DECISIONS.

GWB, could come to their House, leave the deed, paid in full on the front porch, and they would STILL find fault in it, because it was GWB's decision.

I only wish that people would be more careful in what they say. Bush-bash all you want, thats politics.
Don't make our soldiers feel that we don't support them..

[edit on 18-11-2004 by spacedoubt]

Somewhereinbetween,

Based on a lie, or not..
the prolonging of the Vietnam war, was for Precisely the reasons I've stated.
Lack of support for those who were sent to fight.
It could have been over much sooner, (IMO) if we had been allowed to fight it.

u still never told us why were at war in iraq all u do is talk about vietnam

Originally posted by spacedoubt
Somewhereinbetween,

Based on a lie, or not..
the prolonging of the Vietnam war, was for Precisely the reasons I've stated.
Lack of support for those who were sent to fight.
It could have been over much sooner, (IMO) if we had been allowed to fight it.

my monitor mus be dirty, I can't seem to find those reasons on this thread. Regardless, my statements stand. The position that those americans opposing the war in Iraq are against teh troops are ludicrous, unfounded and meant to disparqe and shame them, when in fact, they want the opposite to you. Their troops to not be killed by virtue of trumped up charges leading them to war, and the right to tell your leader that they do not agree with him. And like it or not, unless he knows this, he will act take it for granted that he has no opposition. no opposotion means no checks and balances. I do believe that is what your country's system is all about.

From what I see in here, your troops are often revered as hard asses, and teh best fighting machine in the world. They also know full well that their job is to carry out the orders of their president. So why some of you suggest that their feelings would be hurt by those who tell the president they do not agree with his actions is a puzzle.

"To me Labeling means "generalization". I didn't mean for that to be a generalization."

Umm, that whole first post is exactly that, a bunch of generalizations culminating in opinons which just don't make sense to me. And that's exactly what my problem with it is. I think you need to separate your issues here, and get specific, with specific posts and links of what or who has upset you to the point of posting such garbage.

I support the troops wholeheartedly. But I don't support the reasons they are there. Despite that fact, to any US military that reads what I just said, I want you to know that if it was me in your shoes in Iraq, I'd fight and fight hard just like you are doing, and I am very proud of YOU for following through with your commitment signature on that dotted line........... After all, that is what you signed up to do, was to fight and possibly even die if need be for the agenda of the current administration, regardless of the reasons. It's not your job to worry about the reasons, unless you are one of the policy makers. You can trust in that our system of government alleviates you from the horrible actions you have to take every day on the battlefied. Such is, unfortunately, the world we live in.

I don't like GWB much...BUT I support the American troops and our boys 100%.
And the rest of the coalition forces too.
I hope to God they all come home safe(and soon)

Supporting our troops would mean urging that they come home as soon as possible, wouldn't it?

Supporting out troops would mean protesting when you learn that they were deployed without the proper equipment or without the proper strrop strenth, right?


Supporting our troops would mean looking beyond those few who abused prisoners and those who initiated that policy.

And, well, supporting our troops should provoke a great deal of disgust at the environment that we have exposed them too, and the horrors that we cause them to commit in for our protection.
If we didn't have that natural reaction, we'd probably be sending them in for sport and they'd be exposed to it on a daily basis, year after year.



[edit on 18-11-2004 by dawnstar]

I agree! People need to careful not to confuse "TRUE" American Ideals, with Bush's stupid and embarrising policies. Core American Values are good, and they have served our people well for Generations. You don't have to agree with them, but be careful not to insult thoes of us who do! Second, Please don't trash our military vetrens. Most of them are very honerable and will put their lives on the line to protect the rights of anyone anywhere. these are the men and woman you see in other countries helping civilians and sharing food with hungry and needy children. I know there are a few that are not good people, but don't trash everyone who wears a uniform, because we has a few bad apples in the bunch.

Tim
ATS Director of Counter-Ignorance

There is no other way to reconcile this thread created by spacedoubt with this message board other than to conclude he has no idea he is posting to a CONSPIRACY message board.

You act as if, we are purposely targeting civilians. We aren't. Get THAT through your heads please.

There are no attacking armies in Iraq other than the U.S./coalition/INC forces at this point in time. By that fact alone its 100% evident that the soldiers are purposefully targetting civilians. Now whether they are purposefully targetting non-combatant civilians is a different matter, but its a reality that civilians ARE the targets of the coalition's attack.

SHUT UP, and let the soldiers do thier jobs. Stop second guessing EVERYTHING,The more you do, the longer this will take. MORE people will die, on BOTH sides, because we will be AGAIN, forced to fight a "politically correct" war. The unwinnable kind of war.

There has yet to be anything "politically correct" about the invasion/occupation of Iraq. The very group used to sanction this war, the UN with its resolutions did not sign off on this attack, so its 100% illegal.

Bush won the election, get over it..You are still an American, aren't you?

Very Off-Topic.

We are IN IRAQ, fighting a war. Let us fight, and win. So EVERYONE can get over it. You do want us to win, don't you?

I do not want the United States engaged in illegal and unnecessary wars. So I do not want the United States to "win" such wars.

[edit on 18-11-2004 by Frith]

Well i am not an american, but i will say im rooting for the iraqi insurgence, they are fighting for "THEIR" land as the masses of any country would do, and all i hear in the media is calling these insurgences "terrorists" which they are certainly not. If america just wanted to make saddam's regime fall, why are america still there? The insurgences are fighting the americans becasue they americans are not leaving, send the troops back home! If there was armoured trucks and tanks rolling down my street from another country, i would be getting a stock pile of arms too to take them down. America you have done your "divine" job of taking down saddam now get the hell out! ohh wait i forget the troops werent even sent to iraq in the first place to get rid of saddam, it was to find the WMD's.....so the troops are there on fictional theory, and then they wont leave the country? So you wonder why people are anti-american these days do you? I forget the exact deaths that were in 9-11, from what i recollect it was around 5k....so that gives the american goverenment the right to invade a country and kill double...probably triple the amount? Im sorry but i really dont have any sympahty for america and there "huge disaster"...and befor someone comes at me saying that one of there family members died in the world trade centre, let me remind you that your tax dollars are going towards to killing alot more family members of others. So i think that americans who think that anti-amercaism is just people being jealous or blabbering on should take a serious look at themselves and world affairs and ask themselves maybe there is a reason why everyone hates us?

This was ment to be a much smaller post but when i got started i couldnt stop

I think we need to win the war, hold the elections, and well, after that, offer whatever assistance THEY WANT from us. But, well, they pull the shots after that, which means if they decide to sell their oil to Russia, get their assistance in keeping their security, or even establish a form of governmet that we don't like, well, that's up to them. OR course, if they take on a government that is likely to seek our destruction later, well, they probably won't be getting ALL the assistance that they want. Maybe just a check to compensate for some of the damage we've done.

The greatest crime we could do to the Iraqi people would be to just pick up and leave. Al Quada would probably move right in and start setting up another taliban style theocracy of hell!! We've destroyed Saddam's army, we have the responsibility of protecting the Iraqis until they can get themselves together and take over that job.

Ok point taking, but then why dont the american troops just guard the iraq boarder from any other country from invading it, or any terroist group to thrive on the islamic population to set up a terroist state, if they cant get in to the country they cant start up there own government. Then the people who are acturlly trying to rebuild what america blew up would not be getting kidnapped and beheaded...There is no need for the american troops to be patrolling the streets, just guard the dam boarder if thats the only worry of the american government.

As a British citizen i am fully against the illegal invasion and have absolute disgust for the American and British Governments.

I Strongly urge you to try and see past Fox News or whatever garbage channel 's you get your propaganda from try watching a real documentry like The Power of Nightmares by the BBC.

Anyway the reason i believe for most anti Americanism is generally

1. Their entirely unjustified sense of self-importance
(ex: Bragging about the second world war when they basicly hid until BOTH Germany and Japan declared war on them FIRST )

2. Their NAZI foriegn policy's

3. The belief they do no wrong and are always's the good guy's despite episodes like panama, etc

4. Unconditional support of isreal the worlds worst rogue nation (Just look at America's UN Veto's and in my opinion Isreal are the most likely suspect's for 911 let's not forget it wouldn't be the first time they have attacked america to frame arab's.


It is neither the 'land of the free nor even the home of the brave. American troops bombing civilians from a distance is evidence of neither.

I realise this is not want you want to hear but sometimes the truth hurts.

Originally posted by wang
Ok point taking, but then why dont the american troops just guard the iraq boarder from any other country from invading it, or any terroist group to thrive on the islamic population to set up a terroist state, if they cant get in to the country they cant start up there own government. Then the people who are acturlly trying to rebuild what america blew up would not be getting kidnapped and beheaded...There is no need for the american troops to be patrolling the streets, just guard the dam boarder if thats the only worry of the american government.

It's a big border, I think it might take more troops than we have there. And well, we got three or four different groups who don't really like each other, all really want to come out ahead of the others. Add that to the huge stockpiles of explosives and weapons like we've seen recently in the media, well, they could do alot more destruction than we are. Of course, they didn't seem to be able to come up with enough troops to secure those sites either, did they??

Which leads me back to well, Bush's mistakes......it's hard for me to imagine that Kerry could have done a worse job at this...

The thing I don't get is that everyone has specific categories and labels that they issue to conveniently put names to conditions that they feel strongly about. An example of this phenomenon is the 'military support' contradiction. To wit:


--> "God Bless America" was the de facto method of expressing your support for God, Country and Corps (Military). Almost everyone immediately following 9/11 experienced this type of emotion, and most stuck with it for a while.

Which degraded into ...

--> "I support the troops" was an expression of people during the Iraq invasion start -- that hated the spiraling violence, but yet wanted to say they loved their family members, friends and comrades that were fighting 'the good fight'.

Which is evolving into ...

--> "I back the person in uniform" is more appropriate to describe the love for the individual as a human, but the detest at their actions in combat (evokes visual of recent 'unarmed' Fallujah shooting)

Which soon will turn into ...

--> "Bush is a Killer! Our troops are killing babies and old people!" Soon, just as in Vietnam, many will have no moral choices but to hate the person, the uniform, the military -- ending up being labeled as anti-american.


If I have feelings that mirror this, it doesn't mean I'm anti-american. It means I'm human, and have emotions as such. Some times, we have no choice but to hate things which -- logically -- should not be included in our feelings, but that end up being included because they ARE emotions, and NOT logic.

For me personally, it will not degrade to this point (the latter stages above). I have served in the military. I have a family member in Iraq (Tikrit). I will ALWAYS love her, I will ALWAYS love the Armed Forces, and I will ALWAYS love the United States of America.

I simply HATE Bush, Hate his Policies, and Hate the inevitable chain-of-command that makes the bullets fly into innocent people. That -- my friend -- is what I hate. Call me anti-American, then, if that justifies my feelings. I have no other choice as a human.

Originally posted by surfup
but the reason we went into Iraq is BS, comeon,
we went to Iraq for oil, that is as clear as it can get.

At least with Sadaam Iraqian people had electricity and
minimal basic needs, now...you know it.

Oh .. the old 'we went in to get the oil' stuff ... . Yeah, right.
This gets sooooooooooooo old! If we wanted oil fields, we would
have kept the Kuwaiti ones we liberated instead of giving them
back to the Kuwaitis. If we wanted oil fields, we'd take over
Mexico and Venezuela ... they are right next door and it would
be much easier and less dangerous not to mention less potentially
viewed as antagnoistic.

NO - the Iraqis did not have electricity and basic needs. Oh, the
people in Bagdad had electricity, but the rest of the country had
fluxuating electricity ... they only got electricity IF bagdad had any
left over. Basic needs? I guess mass murder, mass torture,
mass rape is a basic need? Saddam stealing 21 billion from the
Iraqis is a 'basic need'? I bet the Iraqis could have found better
things to do with the $$$ (like education and health care) ....
instead of Saddam building his palaces.

No, it wasn't about us taking oil and the Iraqis didn't have it okay.
They had it bad. VERY BAD. And we aren't keeping the oil.

Originally posted by t0013374sk001
the penteagon never had a plane fly into it if you dont believe me then go here www.pentagonstrike.co.uk... and watch the movie

oh brother
Yes it was a plane.
Yes it was islamic terrorists who hijacked it.
Yes it did hit the Pentagon.

I understand this is a conspiracy site, but come on,
at least pick a conspiracy that has something to it.

Originally posted by wang
im rooting for the iraqi insurgence, they are fighting for "THEIR" land

America you have done your "divine" job of taking down saddam now get the hell out

You'd best go get a dictionary and look up the word 'insurgent'.

- 'insurrection against an existing government, usually one's own,
by a group not recognized as having the status of a belligerent'

- insurrection - the act or an instance of rising in open rebellion against an established government or authority'.

The insurgents are not fighting FOR their land.
They are fighting AGAINST it.
They kill their own countrymen. They bomb
the Iraqi police stations. They destroy their
own oil pipelines. They cause death and
havoc for their own people who are in search
of a better life - without Saddam and without
fundamentalist muslims.

Your comment about 'you got Saddam, now get out' wasn't
well thought out. Pulling out now would just leave chaos.
It would be irresponsible to 'now get out'. The vacuum
left behind would insane.