Can you define what freedom is?

reply to post by LDragonFire

Can you define what freedom is?

I can try and define what I think it once was...

Freedom used to be walking into the local courthouse to purchase a car tag without having to pass physical searches or having to give a thumb prints as a prerequisite for entry and/ot exit.

Freedom was once going to the local airport and after, logically, passing through a metal detector, boarding a plane without having to strip and be raped by the TSA.

Freedom was being allowed to attend pro and college football games with a still-shot camera and your wife being able to carry her purse.

Freedom was to be a parent and pick your kid up from school if you needed to... without being arrested.

Freedom was being able to fly a flag outside your front door without a tyrannical Home Owner's Association ready to rip your pole down.

Freedom was living in neighborhoods where it was safe for kids to walk to a neighborhood school and go trick-or-treating without fear of perverts or the social big brothers.

Freedom was being able to tell a city council member that they were doing a horrible job... without being tackled, tasered and dragged to the steps before being handcuffed and taken away.

Freedom was knowing that everyone around you understood the basics of freedom:
"I may not agree with what you say, but I will fight to the death for your right to say it."

Freedom was being able to walk down a city sidewalk without a hundred cameras on your every step.

Freedom was having a GENUINE right to remain silent.

Freedom was being able to sit in a park, smoke a cee-gar and toss peanuts to the pigeons without some paramilitary coming from the bushes and arresting you for the stogie.

That's a start... I could think of many more but, freedom has a lot of definitions like, freedom from fear or intimidation... both of which we have lost as a society.

,,,

Afternoon,

With all the wonderful answers posted here, I've come to the realization that maybe I don't know what freedom is...perhaps I only know what freedom isn't.

-Peace-

Freedom is a ridiculous concept that should be completely removed from the vernacular.

Freedom will never fail to cause humans to separate themselves from one another, because the concept of freedom is subjective. I'm free to kill you, you're free to kill me. Why would you kill me? Freedom of speech, freedom of religion, the right to bear arms.

Go freedom!

Eryiedes
Afternoon,

With all the wonderful answers posted here, I've come to the realization that maybe I don't know what freedom is...perhaps I only know what freedom isn't.

-Peace-

Don't surrender. The dream of what this nation was and should be is still very much alive. It was and is what creating a unique collection of individual states was all about.

There is no such thing as true, complete "freedom". Everything has to obey the laws of physics. By obeying something, you are giving up control. Giving up control equates to a loss of freedom.

None of us are "free". We never were, nor will we ever be. Freedom is a highly abstract construct, artificially created by man.

Everyone and everything answers to someone or something else.

reply to post by MystikMushroom

There is no such thing as true, complete "freedom". Everything has to obey the laws of physics. By obeying something, you are giving up control. Giving up control equates to a loss of freedom.

We all have to breathe and so... disobeying would lead to an unfortunate, premature ending.

Curiously enough, the same ending can be acquired today for far, far less.

Common sense and understanding what was meant to be versus what is, is indeed quite critical.

Freedom is lack of exploitation for all.
If some aren't free, none of us are free.

Freedom should mean being able to do anything that does not physically harm someone or someone else's property without interference from the law.

Freedom

The power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restraint providing one stays within what is a good judgment of morality.

reply to post by LDragonFire

"Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose".
(K. Kristopherson-"Me and Bobby McGee")

Freedom is just a word

If you are a 'citizen' then you have given up your right to absolute freedom at birth. You are bound by the laws of the land you live on.

Its a simple fact of life , you can not be a citizen and expect to do whatever you want.

Thank you for the posts.

I think a tribal lifestyle offers much more personal freedom, but our society offers advanced tech and hyper entertainment.

I'm not advocating living like a caveman to breath more freer air, I do like the toys and distractions modern society offers. What I am advocating is a discussion about freedom, what it is and what it means to you. How many of you struggled with its definition? Is it something you think about? Or is it a pipe dream?

"When there's lightning - you know it always brings me down
Cause it's free and I see that it's me
Who's lost and never found" Ronnie James Dio

Born with no life Into subjugation
Treated like a worthless animal
Stripped of all rights
Just a lesser being
Crushed by cruel ruthless human rule.
When it started
All we wanted was a chance to live our lives
Now in darkness
Taking everything we want and we will rise.
From shadows
We'll descend upon the world
Take back what you stole
From shadows
We'll reclaim our destiny
Set our future free

reply to post by PhoenixOD


The constitution mentions "the people" and not citizen. The constitution failed to protect native Americans from ethnic cleansing and genocide. It allowed slavery in America for 100 years "All men are created equal"? It didn't protect Japanese citizens from internment camps in WW2, or McCarthyism, or the current war on drugs, or peeing in a cup, or passing a background check, or passing a credit check just for a job. It didn't protect citizens from secret medical experiments. It didn't protect the people from built in racism in housing, jobs, and the criminal justice systems.

I wonder why corporation with there history have more freedoms or rights than the people?

I have all this "date rape" stuff at the desk here. Things like bookmarks that read "NO is never wrong" and stickers that say "NO isnt a dirty word."

Try saying "no" to the government.

We're about as free as cattle on a ranch. Eat, sleep and # all you want but doing anything else will get you prodded.

It's pretty simple to have a free-as-possible society. No harm to person or property, no crime. That's it. That's all anyone needs. Instead we have so many regs and laws that 80% of us are felons before we even get out of bed in the morning and 75% of that 80% don't even know it.

Originally, freedom was having enough land and natural abundance to provide for ones self without the interference of other men. Therefore originally, only men were free, since women and children were completely dependent upon men for their sustenance, and as we all should know, dependency=slavery.

Then, as populations grew and natural abundance diminished, men became slaves to other men in exchange for sustenance, as the responsibility=freedom to sustain ones self from an abundance in nature was gradually extinguished.

As the corruption of nature continued, men not only found themselves increasingly dependent=enslaved to other men, but to women as well through further subjugation via propaganda and psychological mind-control; increasingly functioning merely as beasts of burden, subserviant to the system and women as well.

And now, men sit around asking "what is freedom", being so far removed from nature's abundance and the natural order that the concept is merely a meaningless question to ponder, having no relevance at all in modern daily life - with the possible exception of "consumer freedom" and "sexual freedom" - which are really Orwellian double-speak terms for "utter and complete enslavement and perversion of nature, man, and the natural order".

At the most fundamental level, anything that increases population density decreases freedom, and anything that decreases population density increases freedom. Freedom and human population density are directly and inversely proportional.

Freedom is what all other life-forms have and desire. Unfortunately, man is dumb enough to think he can improve on nature and the natural order by destroying nature and the natural order ... man thinks he can gain freedom by destroying freedom; and in this illusion, mankind destroys itself. Every human civilization for the last 100,000 years have been a 100% failure. And we never care to learn from it.

Tattoo a dot on the bottom of a woman's big toe each time she bears a child, and tie the tubes on the 3rd, and I guarantee eternal freedom, abundance, and prosperity for mankind. That is the only answer.

reply to post by i18rabbit


Thanks for posting and you bring up interesting points. Are you aware that Thomas Jefferson was completely against cities, he dreamt of a great American Agrarian society with true freedom for all.

We are born into a society that forces you to conform to its norms. Back in the day a man was made by achieving certain goals or challenges in life such as building a house, or being successful in a hunt, or other rights of passage.

Today all you need to do is reach a predefined age. You can drive (or get a license) in most states at 16, you can join the military at 17 or 18, you can vote and smoke at 18, but you can't drink till your 21.

Our system makes it very difficult to build your own house, with building and zoning codes and occupancy permits. You are not a person or "the people" mentioned in the constitution, you are a consumer. Once you move into your own place you Must buy electricity, water, gas, sewage, and trash removal its rare if you have a choice in these matters. In areas you can install solar panels and or wind turbines, or dig a well, possibly burn your own trash, possibly treat your own sewage, but its rare when you have the choice in all of these categories. The government by design forces you to consume these services whether you want too or not. The more rural the area the more likely you can use others systems but it isn't always the norm.

The government forces you into this system and every time you pay a bill they earn a fee or taxes on every transaction. Its in the governments best interest to act in this fashion, because we are not slaves to men, but of the system/money. Everyone on this planet not living a tribal lifestyle is a slave to money, even the elite as they are also forced to spend money on things without a choice.

Things we have accepted:
Nice guys finish last.
Only the good die young.
Money is the root of all evil.

We are in a sad and conditioned shape to not only believe these phrases but to have accepted them as fact. Humans have existed and thrived without money for 100,000's of years, but the last 10,000 years or so many of us changed our paradigm to the money based agriculture system, and today most are hopelessly dependent or enslaved to it.

Hunting and fishing was once a way of life for men, today its a sport that is regulated.

Money leads us away from nature, if you take any animal and put them in a cage they go insane. We all live in a cage.

Happy Thanksgiving ATS!

And here I thought that Freedom was to allow people to do as they pleased.

Since no matter what, what you do comes back to you 3x or is it 10x?

It's their Life anyway so why judge what they do with it?

You should be taking care of your own anyways!

Peace

Freedom is a concept not grounded in the fundamentals of human or animal society where behavioral controls are a necessary alternative to chaos, the moment we enter our bodies we are confined, only death delivers true freedom.