Courts Quietly Confirm MMR Vaccine Causes Autism

OneManArmy

Pardon?

As for Gulf War Syndrome, it had to be the vaccines. There's absolutely no way it could have been anything else...or could it?
Pyridostigmine bromide nerve gas antidote was given to all who served and has been causally linked to myasthenia gravis.
Exposure to Sarin (I don't need to add anything to this)
Organophosphate pesticides were used to keep airborne pests to a minimum and these are poisonous to humans even in low levels.
Nerve and/or mustard gas (these and the Sarin although not actively used as a weapon against the troops were released when storage bunkers were destroyed by the army).
The vaccines given have been ruled out, along with other proposed factors such as radiation, pollution from oil-well fires and combat stress.
But it's oh so easy to blame the vaccines isn't it?
Too easy for some.

An interesting thing I notice is your complete failure to include depleted uranium in your rebuttal.
I agree with your rebuttal, its a good response, but then I wonder why no mention of DU?
It is the single biggest "suspect"(but not the only suspect to say the least) in gulf war syndrome.

Interesting....

I wrote "radiation" in the list of factors which have been ruled out..
Read things properly.

EDIT:
Source

Pardon?

OneManArmy

Pardon?

As for Gulf War Syndrome, it had to be the vaccines. There's absolutely no way it could have been anything else...or could it?
Pyridostigmine bromide nerve gas antidote was given to all who served and has been causally linked to myasthenia gravis.
Exposure to Sarin (I don't need to add anything to this)
Organophosphate pesticides were used to keep airborne pests to a minimum and these are poisonous to humans even in low levels.
Nerve and/or mustard gas (these and the Sarin although not actively used as a weapon against the troops were released when storage bunkers were destroyed by the army).
The vaccines given have been ruled out, along with other proposed factors such as radiation, pollution from oil-well fires and combat stress.
But it's oh so easy to blame the vaccines isn't it?
Too easy for some.

An interesting thing I notice is your complete failure to include depleted uranium in your rebuttal.
I agree with your rebuttal, its a good response, but then I wonder why no mention of DU?
It is the single biggest "suspect"(but not the only suspect to say the least) in gulf war syndrome.

Interesting....

I wrote "radiation" in the list of factors which have been ruled out..
Read things properly.

Oh forgive me, for missing your statement that radiation had been "ruled out".
Lol, that claim is just laughable.

No really its comedy gold.

Do you have independent verification of that claim other than a government study that seeks to protect itself from lawsuits?

OneManArmy

Pardon?

OneManArmy

Pardon?

As for Gulf War Syndrome, it had to be the vaccines. There's absolutely no way it could have been anything else...or could it?
Pyridostigmine bromide nerve gas antidote was given to all who served and has been causally linked to myasthenia gravis.
Exposure to Sarin (I don't need to add anything to this)
Organophosphate pesticides were used to keep airborne pests to a minimum and these are poisonous to humans even in low levels.
Nerve and/or mustard gas (these and the Sarin although not actively used as a weapon against the troops were released when storage bunkers were destroyed by the army).
The vaccines given have been ruled out, along with other proposed factors such as radiation, pollution from oil-well fires and combat stress.
But it's oh so easy to blame the vaccines isn't it?
Too easy for some.

An interesting thing I notice is your complete failure to include depleted uranium in your rebuttal.
I agree with your rebuttal, its a good response, but then I wonder why no mention of DU?
It is the single biggest "suspect"(but not the only suspect to say the least) in gulf war syndrome.

Interesting....

I wrote "radiation" in the list of factors which have been ruled out..
Read things properly.

Oh forgive me, for missing your statement that radiation had been "ruled out".
Lol, that claim is just laughable.

No really its comedy gold.

Do you have independent verification of that claim other than a government study that seeks to protect itself from lawsuits?

edit on 201312America/Chicago12pm12pmSun, 01 Dec 2013 17:07:17 -06001213 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)

Firstly, you missed my statement on radiation as you were specifically looking for the words "depleted uranium" which leads me to believe that you are just parroting lists of things you don't understand properly.
Radiation should have registered immediately had you known what you're talking about.

If you care to actually READ the report you will see a list of references at the bottom.
Look them up and then use them as a starting point to further your knowledge.
You are just dismissing it because it's from da gubment.


However, keep that for another thread.
This one is about vaccines and you and the dual personality poster are running out of things to copy and paste now.

Pardon?


Firstly, you missed my statement on radiation as you were specifically looking for the words "depleted uranium" which leads me to believe that you are just parroting lists of things you don't understand properly.
Radiation should have registered immediately had you known what you're talking about.

If you care to actually READ the report you will see a list of references at the bottom.
Look them up and then use them as a starting point to further your knowledge.
You are just dismissing it because it's from da gubment.


However, keep that for another thread.
This one is about vaccines and you and the dual personality poster are running out of things to copy and paste now.

Before you accuse me of parroting lists of things I dont understand, please show me where I have done so..(then you can accuse me of plagiarism)
I completely missed the radiation word as I was already emotionally compromised by your words and complete lack of comprehension of history I succumbed to a small thing called anger. Im no angel and Im a human being, I even apologised for my mistake, which throughout this whole thread you have failed to acknowledge a single failure or misrepresentation, showing your own complacency and delusions of "knowing it all".
I dont claim to know it all, Im learning as I go, whereas you already think you have all the answers, which are a carefully wrapped misinformation campaign if you ask me.
I will read the document, its a long document and it will take time.
But yes its from the government, the lying and cheating and thieving sociopaths they are repeatedly proven to be.
Forgive my predisposition to mistrust them. lol.

OneManArmy

Pardon?


Firstly, you missed my statement on radiation as you were specifically looking for the words "depleted uranium" which leads me to believe that you are just parroting lists of things you don't understand properly.
Radiation should have registered immediately had you known what you're talking about.

If you care to actually READ the report you will see a list of references at the bottom.
Look them up and then use them as a starting point to further your knowledge.
You are just dismissing it because it's from da gubment.


However, keep that for another thread.
This one is about vaccines and you and the dual personality poster are running out of things to copy and paste now.

the lying and cheating and thieving sociopaths they are repeatedly proven to be.

..The first and most important clue in determining any conspiracy...

OneManArmy

Pardon?


Firstly, you missed my statement on radiation as you were specifically looking for the words "depleted uranium" which leads me to believe that you are just parroting lists of things you don't understand properly.
Radiation should have registered immediately had you known what you're talking about.

If you care to actually READ the report you will see a list of references at the bottom.
Look them up and then use them as a starting point to further your knowledge.
You are just dismissing it because it's from da gubment.


However, keep that for another thread.
This one is about vaccines and you and the dual personality poster are running out of things to copy and paste now.

Before you accuse me of parroting lists of things I dont understand, please show me where I have done so..(then you can accuse me of plagiarism)
I completely missed the radiation word as I was already emotionally compromised by your words and complete lack of comprehension of history I succumbed to a small thing called anger. Im no angel and Im a human being, I even apologised for my mistake, which throughout this whole thread you have failed to acknowledge a single failure or misrepresentation, showing your own complacency and delusions of "knowing it all".
I dont claim to know it all, Im learning as I go, whereas you already think you have all the answers, which are a carefully wrapped misinformation campaign if you ask me.
I will read the document, its a long document and it will take time.
But yes its from the government, the lying and cheating and thieving sociopaths they are repeatedly proven to be.
Forgive my predisposition to mistrust them. lol.

edit on 201312America/Chicago12pm12pmSun, 01 Dec 2013 17:26:41 -06001213 by OneManArmy because: (no reason given)

You've parroted pretty much all the way through this thread.
I really don't buy that you were "emotionally compromised" and no, you didn't apologise for your mistake, read what you wrote again, your sarcasm is evident.
I've been through this thread a few times and I don't really see where I've been wrong or misrepresented anything hence why there's no apology.
I certainly don't know it all but I would suggest that my comprehension of the subject is better than most on here and I'm more than happy to read EVERYTHING about vaccinations before I make any decision and the decision I have at the moment is that anti-vaxxers at best are ignorant of the facts and at worst deliberately lying and putting lives at risk purely for financial gain.
You claim to be still learning, learning about what exactly as from your very first post you've nailed your colours to the mast and championed virtually every anti-vax post? That's not trying to learn at all.

It's pretty obvious where you're coming from as you've said so a couple of times...your WHOLE beef is not with vaccines per se but with the government. This is what your anti-vaccine stance is based upon, not the actual facts and evidence around vaccines at all as if you really wanted to learn and understand about them you would have to accept verified scientific studies which can be posted via governmental sites. And that's what you can't hack.
You seem to have this bizarre view that science and medicine is controlled by the government and/or "big" pharma. I'm afraid it's not. There are far too many people not involved in those two institutions to be "controlled" and it implies that medical staff cannot think for themselves or just take studies as fact without checking which is as far removed from the truth as you can possibly get.


Going back a few posts where someone posted a video with Andrew Moulden in.
Again, does anyone actually check up on what they post?
This guy first of all is a germ theory of disease denialist since "he has discovered the real cause of disease which only he knows" (although you can buy the explanation in a box set on DVD from him) so pretty much anything he says has to be taken with a pinch of salt.
However, it gets better. He prefers to eschew science as, in his own words, "science can never replace common sense and your own powers of direct observation.".
He refuses to acknowledge any peer-reviews of his work.
He's not and never has been licenced to practice medicine and (in his own words again) he's got restraining orders on him to keep away from medical conferences(!!???).
Getting onto his view on vaccines; he believes that vaccines cause white blood cells to "clump" together which then block blood vessels causing minor strokes thus causing autism. Err no.
He believes vaccines are the only cause of disease....
He even had a website where he claimed he was able to diagnose SIDS in a baby before it happens just by sending a photo of that baby's face in. Naturally for a fee.
And people are citing him as a voice to promote what they believe? Incredible!
Even most of the anti-vax big-wigs distance themselves from him.

Even though the arguments here against vaccinations have been refuted and explained away rather than just being dismissed or ignored you also have to look at who's being cited here.
So far people have cited Rebecca Carley, Andrew Moulden, Andrew Wakefield and Sherri Tenpenny(who btw insinuated that vaccines were to blame for the Newtown shootings....
evidenceplease.files.wordpress.com...) amongst others as credible sources and you're happy to believe them but when it comes to more "official" sources they're dismissed out of hand...
Says a lot.

Pardon?

Even though the arguments here against vaccinations have been refuted and explained away rather than just being dismissed or ignored you also have to look at who's being cited here.
So far people have cited Rebecca Carley, Andrew Moulden, Andrew Wakefield and Sherri Tenpenny

Says a lot.

As was discussed earlier in the thread, people who speak out against the products which the Pharmaceuticals profit from are targeted; this is how the game works. The same goes in many industries.

You believe in McScience, or at least you pretend to believe in it for whatever purpose you have come here, you would say that only McDonalds can perform/fund studies on the safety of their own food, nobody else would be allowed to or you would write them off, smear them. You would say that McDonalds would be honest despite their huge conflict of interest. I find it hard to believe that you really believe this, but perhaps you do. Perhaps you believe that only the corporations can come up with results to a high enough standard and that everything else has to be written off. You believe that the corporations don't lie, despite the fact they've been caught thousands of times, you keep giving them a clean slate. If you really do believe what you say then you're at best naive. If you are here with an agenda then you should think about how many children will have their lives destroyed through your efforts on the Internet. You should think if this is really something you can feel proud of.

reply to post by Rubinstein


You know you're losing when all you have to fall back on is straw men.

Rubinstein

Pardon?

Even though the arguments here against vaccinations have been refuted and explained away rather than just being dismissed or ignored you also have to look at who's being cited here.
So far people have cited Rebecca Carley, Andrew Moulden, Andrew Wakefield and Sherri Tenpenny

Says a lot.

As was discussed earlier in the thread, people who speak out against the products which the Pharmaceuticals profit from are targeted; this is how the game works. The same goes in many industries.

You believe in McScience, or at least you pretend to believe in it for whatever purpose you have come here, you would say that only McDonalds can perform/fund studies on the safety of their own food, nobody else would be allowed to or you would write them off, smear them. You would say that McDonalds would be honest despite their huge conflict of interest. I find it hard to believe that you really believe this, but perhaps you do. Perhaps you believe that only the corporations can come up with results to a high enough standard and that everything else has to be written off. You believe that the corporations don't lie, despite the fact they've been caught thousands of times, you keep giving them a clean slate. If you really do believe what you say then you're at best naive. If you are here with an agenda then you should think about how many children will have their lives destroyed through your efforts on the Internet. You should think if this is really something you can feel proud of.

The ones I've mentioned haven't been targeted at all, they're charlatans, fakers, fear-mongering liars and in at least one case, clinically insane (although I would place money on Moulden not being the full ticket).
I've put the case forward why none of them should be trusted within a mile of any child so instead of coming up with the same old and tired conspiracy nonsense, prove to me why they are right.

And you still don't get how science works do you?


Oh, just to counter your last attack, I worked in and around a paediatric ICU for 14 years and have personally been responsible for saving the lives of quite a few kids. By personally responsible I mean me resuscitating a child for up to an hour at a time.
Through my work in electrophysiology I improved (and cured) numerous kids who had dangerous cardiac arrhythmias and whilst working with cardiac devices I personally helped develop new techniques for improving the lives of both children and adults with extremely serious cardiac problems.
As I still live relatively close to the hospital now and again a parent will stop me and thank me for what I've done.
That's something I feel extremely proud of.

DJW001
reply to post by Rubinstein

 

You know you're losing when all you have to fall back on is straw men.

You clearly haven't been following the thread and seen the so-called 'Studies' he places trust in

Pardon?

Oh, just to counter your last attack, I worked in and around a paediatric ICU for 14 years and have personally been responsible for saving the lives of quite a few kids. By personally responsible I mean me resuscitating a child for up to an hour at a time.
Through my work in electrophysiology I improved (and cured) numerous kids who had dangerous cardiac arrhythmias and whilst working with cardiac devices I personally helped develop new techniques for improving the lives of both children and adults with extremely serious cardiac problems.
As I still live relatively close to the hospital now and again a parent will stop me and thank me for what I've done.
That's something I feel extremely proud of.

edit on 2/12/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/12/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)

If you've been vaccinating the kids then you've been poisoning them, there are many studies which have been posted in this thread proving that point. Perhaps you don't realize that; being ignorant and brainwashed is nothing to be proud of.

reply to post by Rubinstein

f you've been vaccinating the kids then you've been poisoning them, there are many studies which have been posted in this thread proving that point. Perhaps you don't realize that; being ignorant and brainwashed is nothing to be proud of.

After a long winded argument with a sibling, I looked for all the studies that were supposed to exist showing autism etc from vaccines. They all turned out to be BS: poorly designed and often fairly obviously designed to produce a desired outcome (Wakefield s a prime example- he was trying to flog his own vaccine). I then dug out the definitions of autism in the early eighties and then later years, which explained away the increase as they changed the definition (checked on my own, no corporate shills to sway me). I then dug out all the info I could on my own about mortality rates in measles, studies to determine whether or not there had been an increase in frequency of autism, then finally spent a while researching what actually does cause autism.

I've not seen any serious research in about 10 years mention vaccines except to debunk them. as far as the bulk of the community is concerned it's a dead line of enquiry. It's all 'genetics', pre birth environment' and some issues with anti depressants and viral infections during pregnancy as cause. Many autistic traits can be detected at birth. Kind of hard for a vaccine to affect a child before it's vaccinated. Once you subratct the known causes of autism from all cases of autism, the possible number of cases a vaccination could possibly have caused are minute.

FYI, mortality in young kids for measles is between 1/200-300. About 10% need to be hospitalised. Even if the vaccines caused damage the way you claim, it would still be better to vaccinate then live with tens of thousands of deaths every year. As a kicker, the measles virus causes encephalitis, which can cause brain damage that mimics primary autism. You'd have more autisticly behaving kids from non vaccinating.

Antigod,

You're speaking to someone who's been studying this for over 10 years in detail. The mortality rate you quoted for Measles is completely exaggerated. Measles is only a risk in the malnourished i.e Third World

It's the combination of MMR with Tylenol / Paracetamol which puts children at risk of regressing into Autism.

This quote here from the former chief of the UK Department of Health will put the story into perspective for you.

Dr Peter Fletcher, former UK Chief Scientific Officer at the Department of Health said

"it is the steady accumulation of evidence, from a number of respected universities, teaching hospitals and laboratories around the world, that matters here. There's far too much to ignore. Yet government health authorities are, it seems, more than happy to do so."

...

"the refusal by governments to evaluate the risks properly will make this one of the greatest scandals in medical history"

...

"There are very powerful people in positions of great authority in Britain and elsewhere who have staked their reputations and careers on the safety of MMR and they are willing to do almost anything to protect themselves."

....

"Clinical and scientific data is steadily accumulating that the live measles virus in MMR can cause brain, gut and immune system damage in a subset of vulnerable children,"

Antigod
reply to post by Rubinstein

 

f you've been vaccinating the kids then you've been poisoning them, there are many studies which have been posted in this thread proving that point. Perhaps you don't realize that; being ignorant and brainwashed is nothing to be proud of.

After a long winded argument with a sibling, I looked for all the studies that were supposed to exist showing autism etc from vaccines. They all turned out to be BS: poorly designed and often fairly obviously designed to produce a desired outcome (Wakefield s a prime example- he was trying to flog his own vaccine). I then dug out the definitions of autism in the early eighties and then later years, which explained away the increase as they changed the definition (checked on my own, no corporate shills to sway me). I then dug out all the info I could on my own about mortality rates in measles, studies to determine whether or not there had been an increase in frequency of autism, then finally spent a while researching what actually does cause autism.

I've not seen any serious research in about 10 years mention vaccines except to debunk them. as far as the bulk of the community is concerned it's a dead line of enquiry. It's all 'genetics', pre birth environment' and some issues with anti depressants and viral infections during pregnancy as cause. Many autistic traits can be detected at birth. Kind of hard for a vaccine to affect a child before it's vaccinated. Once you subratct the known causes of autism from all cases of autism, the possible number of cases a vaccination could possibly have caused are minute.

FYI, mortality in young kids for measles is between 1/200-300. About 10% need to be hospitalised. Even if the vaccines caused damage the way you claim, it would still be better to vaccinate then live with tens of thousands of deaths every year. As a kicker, the measles virus causes encephalitis, which can cause brain damage that mimics primary autism. You'd have more autisticly behaving kids from non vaccinating.

Antigod

I've not seen any serious research in about 10 years mention vaccines except to debunk them. as far as the bulk of the community is concerned it's a dead line of enquiry. It's all 'genetics', pre birth environment' and some issues with anti depressants and viral infections during pregnancy as cause. Many autistic traits can be detected at birth. Kind of hard for a vaccine to affect a child before it's vaccinated. Once you subratct the known causes of autism from all cases of autism, the possible number of cases a vaccination could possibly have caused are minute.

There's lots of propaganda around and it's all too easy for people new to the topic to absorb without critical thinking.

As it turns out in the first world vaccines are a greater risk than no vaccines. Vaccines are used by the pharmaceuticals to increase the size of their market by spreading autoimmune diseaes and allergies.

This is a good site, it sums up the risks of vaccines www.smartvax.com...

Rubinstein

Pardon?

Oh, just to counter your last attack, I worked in and around a paediatric ICU for 14 years and have personally been responsible for saving the lives of quite a few kids. By personally responsible I mean me resuscitating a child for up to an hour at a time.
Through my work in electrophysiology I improved (and cured) numerous kids who had dangerous cardiac arrhythmias and whilst working with cardiac devices I personally helped develop new techniques for improving the lives of both children and adults with extremely serious cardiac problems.
As I still live relatively close to the hospital now and again a parent will stop me and thank me for what I've done.
That's something I feel extremely proud of.

edit on 2/12/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/12/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)

If you've been vaccinating the kids then you've been poisoning them, there are many studies which have been posted in this thread proving that point. Perhaps you don't realize that; being ignorant and brainwashed is nothing to be proud of.

Every study you've posted I've dissected and told you why they weren't proof of what you thought they were.
Saying that. judging from your posts in this thread, I seriously doubt you had ANY thoughts about what you posted else you wouldn't have posted most of them.
Copy & pasting nonsensical arguments (which I've seen countless times) from anti-vax sites doesn't make you an expert, it makes you look like an idiot especially when you can't format a decent response back.
If you wish to have even a modicum of credibility in this thread, you need to tell me WHY I'm wrong rather than say "big pharma", gubment, etc etc etc which is all you've been able to do.

As has been said, attacking me makes you look even more desperate than you are already but as said very early in the thread, I'm not arguing with you or the other one, I'm arguing against you else people who are on the fence read this.

This is the reality of what happens when people believe what you and your ilk spew.
These people thought they were making an informed choice after "researching" on the internet, no doubt encouraged by the likes of you that what they were doing was right for the child.
www.nzherald.co.nz...
www.nzherald.co.nz...

The Cusp

My friends and I go drinking and driving all the time, and we've never had an accident. Therefore it must be totally safe. Right?

I'd recommend more people get clued up on statistics, it will help them to understand the dangers of vaccines

Rubinstein

Pardon?

Oh, just to counter your last attack, I worked in and around a paediatric ICU for 14 years and have personally been responsible for saving the lives of quite a few kids. By personally responsible I mean me resuscitating a child for up to an hour at a time.
Through my work in electrophysiology I improved (and cured) numerous kids who had dangerous cardiac arrhythmias and whilst working with cardiac devices I personally helped develop new techniques for improving the lives of both children and adults with extremely serious cardiac problems.
As I still live relatively close to the hospital now and again a parent will stop me and thank me for what I've done.
That's something I feel extremely proud of.

edit on 2/12/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)

edit on 2/12/13 by Pardon? because: (no reason given)

If you've been vaccinating the kids then you've been poisoning them, there are many studies which have been posted in this thread proving that point. Perhaps you don't realize that; being ignorant and brainwashed is nothing to be proud of.

"proving" being the wrong word to use.

'Pardon?' has stated he saved children and you called him ignorant and brainwashed. Says a lot about you.

To be honest you and OneManArmy have just been trying to prolong this thread with nonsense. It doesn't matter what anybody says, it doesn't matter what source is provided. Wakefield could literally knock on your door and tell you he lied and his research was a decent sized pile of crap and you would probably ask him to prove it.

Rubinstein

Antigod

I've not seen any serious research in about 10 years mention vaccines except to debunk them. as far as the bulk of the community is concerned it's a dead line of enquiry. It's all 'genetics', pre birth environment' and some issues with anti depressants and viral infections during pregnancy as cause. Many autistic traits can be detected at birth. Kind of hard for a vaccine to affect a child before it's vaccinated. Once you subratct the known causes of autism from all cases of autism, the possible number of cases a vaccination could possibly have caused are minute.

There's lots of propaganda around and it's all too easy for people new to the topic to absorb without critical thinking.

As it turns out in the first world vaccines are a greater risk than no vaccines. Vaccines are used by the pharmaceuticals to increase the size of their market by spreading autoimmune diseaes and allergies.

This is a good site, it sums up the risks of vaccines www.smartvax.com...

edit on 2-12-2013 by Rubinstein because: (no reason given)

The amusingly (but sad) titled Smartvax is a thinly disguised anti-vax site which, like you, publishes misinformation about vaccines.
It's whole basis is around David Kirby's heavily debunked book regarding mercury and autism.
Thimerosal has been proven time and time again to have no association with autism.
Mercury poisoning has vastly different symptoms to autism, in fact, they're almost the direct opposite of each other.
pediatrics.aappublications.org...
Yet this is still promoted on this site with absolutely NO credible evidence to back it up.
Like you.