VIDEO: Woman shot by cops in Long Beach, Calif., after refusing to drop fake gun

reply to post by Bilk22


There is nothing there to suggest it being staged, IMO. Ballistics, bullet choice, and accuracy might be questionable if she is really still alive.

She was probably looking for attention, but got more than she expected. Could also easily be "suicide by cop" as mentioned earlier.

Wrabbit2000
That's about the clearest sign of suicide by cop that I've seen in a long time. I'm guessing the curb line was the mental line they had for her ..and then they gave her a couple steps past it before opening fire. What a tragedy. She knew what she was doing though and knew full well what they would do next.

Suicide by Cop. I don't know how else to view that one?

The fact that the term suicide by cop exist is proof of the heinous police state we find ourselves in.

I mean we already know as fact the cops will shoot a child with a toy.


So suicidal people see an easy out in the guaranteed overreaction by the police.

reply to post by Bilk22


Oh I can make a guess...but it's absurd without anything to base it on. Perhaps she wants to sue the P.D. and actually believed she'd take several direct hits to survive for the lawsuit. After all, she WAS hit. That couldn't have been staged, since even generous juries won't just 'take someone's word' for injury sustained in a civil suit.

Hard to believe anyone would knowingly taunt cops right into shooting them from multiple directions, with some plan to survive it. Better luck could be had betting red/black with a life savings in Vegas. At least it's a near 50/50 shot at winning that one.

That still doesn't explain the cops? Would they have shot her with some plan to split the supposed proceeds of a lawsuit we'd be assuming would be a motive? The logic falls apart pretty quick here, I believe.

She deserved every round she ate. You don't take a realistic looking toy gun that close to an officer pointing a real gun at you unless you want to die. Those officers gave this woman more leeway than I ever would had it been me seeing her coming toward me with that toy. I would have drawn down and fired as soon as she pulled it from under her coat. Sorry but I'll save my hate for officers that react with agression when unprovoked.

reply to post by Bilk22

omg that looked so fake to me see the way she fell thats acting done very bad if you ask me

Bilk22
reply to post by Mamatus

 

Yes, she obviously did not appear to be a physical threat. Her mental state looked impaired. It's why I asked if they could have retreated to a safer distance and then determine the best way to subdue her. He just stood his ground. We also don't see the other cops so we have no idea how many more, but there were a lot of shots. If you ask my opinion, the cops look very amateur in how they handled this. Any one of us could have done what they did. Who needs cops to handle situations like this if that's the best they can do?

I would say all the more reason to shoot should the mental state appear unstable. You never know what she is going to do. You think the mental state of most shooters is stable?

We also don't see if there are other civilians around.....there is obviously a media camera crew there so there were civilians within her range of shooting had the weapon been real.

reply to post by benrl


If this was you and not a cop and you saw a obviously druged up woman pull out a firearm that you didn't know was a toy and you were armed would you turn your back would you allow her to close in...no you'd put that crazy lady down. How bout if she advanced on you while with your kids if you had em. The officers for once actually protected every innocent person on that street. No one cohld have known it was a toy and it sure wasn't staged.

reply to post by benrl


Well... approach me as she approached those cops with a weapon in hand, raised to fire and just not QUITE in sight lines to kill me? We can call it Suicide-by CCW Carrier just the same as Suicide by Cop. I don't see it as extreme when the person who did it, did whatever it took to CAUSE the reaction they got.

How can we call it overreacting? We'd have to be able to give an alternate path they could have taken. Did they know her hand held a weapon? It was out of sight until a moment before she was shot. I.E....Did they even know there could be need to disarm her by creative means??

One video online and played over and over on TV shows a suicidal man in Arkansas having his weapon literally shot from his hand by a Police sniper. An AMAZING trick shot and one in a lifetime for seeing happen.

In this case though? What was behind the cops? Residential? A crowd watching this? IF she swung and fired..she LIKELY would have missed the first round, and the cops know that. Likely...isn't something to bet their lives on but still, it's a fair point. So what was behind them they figured she would hit before they could take her down...IF they gave her the first shot in some warped sense of fairness?

Not exactly sure where I stand on this but have to take the cops side as I wasnt there or in any danger.

Ive read a lot where ex- military should not be allowed to become police officers. I wonder if any of those involved were.

But on the other hand, if I am coming at you with a handgun, you picking a tazer, beanbag or a firearm and shooting first?

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I have a problem with that thought process.

A CCW carrier didn't sign up to protect and serve.

A police officer did.

Why do you think firemen are universally loved and cops reviled?

Because a firemen face a life and death choice and chooses to risk his life.

A cop sees the same risk and decides his life is more valuable than taking the same risk as a firefighter.

And look once again it's in So Ca, so frankly wrabbit, F-the police.

But that's from my own history of police experiences with corruption in So Ca.

reply to post by tinner07


Well it isn't smart to sterotype or generalize. Most military have an ROE to follow and most of the time this dictates they must be fired on to fire back. If that was how you were trained why would you be predisposed to fire first?

Bilk22
Cops receive training for situations like this, training that is supposed to be non-lethal. So yeah, questions need to be asked.

No they aren't they are trained to shoot center mass.

reply to post by benrl


So if you wre a ccw holder and armed on that street with no officers around and saw this go down you wouldn't do anything about it. How would you feel if all of a sudden she opened fire on people around and you had a chance to prevent it. How would you feel? I'm pretty sure thats how these officers looked at it.

Not to mention the time span this went down in. Do you think they had 4-5 min to plan or more likely a minute or even seconds. In that time can you make it to the trunk for your non lethal take down options. Let he get in taser range...or move into that range yourself. As you ponder those options keep in mind you need to also be aware of your surroundings and many more variables. They don't have the time it took you to think of every reason why they could have not killed her.

reply to post by benrl

Why do you think firemen are universally loved and cops reviled?

Speak for yourself and your personal opinion. I happen to carry a fair degree of respect for both Police Officers and Fire Fighters. In their own way, they each risk their lives every day and for nothing a paycheck could be called worth doing it for. Yet, they still go. Every day. We disagree there.

Because a firemen face a life and death choice and chooses to risk his life.

There is more than one video out there, right now, showing Police Officers pulling suspects out of wrecked vehicles following a high speed chase. These are guys the same cop would gleefully have beat the stuffing out of, if they'd come up fighting and resisted. However, they go from suspect to victim in a flash, literally, and cops generally meet the challenge by changing roles themselves. It happens regularly.

A cop sees the same risk and decides his life is more valuable than taking the same risk as a firefighter.

See above. I've known and STILL know too many cops to believe that or give it any credibility outside individual examples.

And look once again it's in So Ca, so frankly wrabbit, F-the police.

Yeah... That's hateful and I won't even go there. There are a couple million cops of one flavor or another, between local, state and federal. They are a part of 18,000+ individual agencies and departments. You figure ALL of them are heartless killers and criminals? Well....how is our society not already in total chaos, if that were the case?

reply to post by RickyD

As I'm not someone who signed on to risk my life to serve the public?

Is either do one of two things,

Either retreat, or if I have a shot I'd take it, but of course being a responsible gun owner is probably wait to kill her till I verified she was a threat

Meaning until fired upon or attacked.

This is one thing I know for a fact, as I've faced an armed home intruder.

Something I don't like talking about.

reply to post by benrl


So you mean you dont consider an unstable probable drugged person pulling out what looks like a real gun a threat?

I don't think I need say more if you answer no we aren't on different pages we are in 2 different libraries all together

ETA: forgot that she is advacing towards you...this wouldn't make a difference to me as I'd do my best to protect anyone around me as they are the innocents not her.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I'll be honest wrabbit, police violence and use of force is one issue I give no quarter on.

It is one thing I will not be reasonable about, and I understand that is irrational.

I've just seen to much to not be hateful about this, so I'll bow out of the conversation as I know no argument will sway me on this.

I'm going with staged. I don't have the time now, but there are quite a few issues with this video. The red on the curb is there before she is shot. She eases herself to the ground after being shot multiple times. She actually drops the gun to the side while going to the ground as if she needed her free hand to help herself to the ground. She is not wearing heavy clothing as someone suggested for the lack of blood. She's wearing a t-shirt. She doe not point the gun at the cop, well at least not in a ready shooter position. Clint Eastwood couldn't have shot the cop the way she was holding the gun.

For all you shills and others who say I'm cop bashing, well I have family and friends who are cops. I don't cop bash. Find a thread or post where I derided cops. I suggested this incident is something other than what it appears to be or the cops would have done things differently, if real. That's not cop bashing. That's saying the cops are better trained than what this video portrays. However that means little to those looking to derail a thread.

Have a good day!

reply to post by benrl


Fair enough and it means everything that you'll actually say that, outright. I seem to recall something about that, now that you mention it.

Having gotten it out in the open? I'll say there are a couple issues I'm equally passionate about and others may also see as almost irrational for the degree of passion I have. Only a couple topics..but those couple have no room to play.

No need to leave the thread... We can certainly agree to disagree without being disagreeable on it. After all, you're not in the video nor know anyone who is. Neither do I....so it's not personal, right? Just emotional, to a degree.