IF you DO believe in the bible doesn't it proves Satan is stronger?

reply to post by arpgme


My reading of the bible has always suggested to me that god has equals that were not created by him.

1. There's the whole man could become "like us" if he ate of both the tree of knowledge and the tree of life thing in Genesis,
2. God seems unable to undo things, such as the creation of Satan or the prospective eating from the tree of life by humans.
3. Angels are not among the list of things that god creates along with heaven and earth,
4. There's the very fact that an angel would try to fight god- how/why do you fight an invincible omnipotent being who knows what you're thinking and can blink you out of existence at will?

I think Christianity has denied and twisted its roots for so long that the different texts are really no longer reconcilable- the remaining traces of polytheism and Gnosticism are the issue in this case.

Forgetting for a moment that Christianity itself is loosely based off of pagan ideology and ritual. The devil, like God are engaged in a game of sorts for the souls of mankind. Neither one can mess with free will. It is our choices that dictate whether evil is prevalent in our lives or not.

God gave us this gift of discernment and the gift of Jesus to help guide our moral compass. Through Jesus we can be saved, sinners abound. Only if we recognize that sin however and accept the love of God. Each one of us carries both the love of God and the stigma of the devil within our very hearts and minds. Its what we do with it that matters most. Again you have a choice.

The bible is a full on instruction manual from GOD. And like most instruction manuals it warns you of the perils of living with evil. It is meant to warn you that if you make toast in the bathtub, you may get electrocuted. But if you follow instructions as close as possible, you can make your toast by the vanity and eat it in the bath tub with no real ill effects to you.

Remember God is love, the devil is everything else that is wrong with society in the absence of love.

The Vagabond
reply to post by arpgme

 

I think Christianity has denied and twisted its roots for so long that the different texts are really no longer reconcilable- the remaining traces of polytheism and Gnosticism are the issue in this case.

A more fair statement if any ever before it. And correct in assumption. After all most of Christianity holidays are made after pagan ones...especially the main ones that are in the name of Jesus which I find slightly hypocritical to the doctrine set forth by flawed mans closed interpretation.

To name a few examples.... Christmas, Easter, funerals, weddings

reply to post by signalfire


Whether you believe it or not is a personal choice.

The narrative of the Bible, is like this. God created everything, after God created man he lived among man visited man, however you want to interpret it. Point being is man was not separated from his creator. After the fall of man in the garden of eve. God casts man out of his presence, was their a magical garden I don't know. The point of the story is that their is a separation of creator and creation.

The narrative after the fall and before Jesus. This is the story of man separated from God, and the struggles and problems they face in his absence. Death disease, hate, greed lust, the concept of sin and its effects. None of these things exist in the prescense of God. Man chose to go his own way. This is the concept of free will. What makes the creators works more special than any others.

The narrative of Jesus is Gods return to man. Born a mortal human on earth and living among his creations you can call him a half god son or whatever but the point of the story is its another separation. God is seperating himself in a way that makes it possible to be in the presence of man. This is the bridge God has built for man where man has tried to criss that divide and failed.

Jesus dieng on the cross for the sins of man. The point of the story is God is making himself inseparable from man without destroying free will.
Everyone will be able to rejoin God regardless of the path they choose. They will never be able to be in his precense without accepting that piece of him that makes it possible.

You can pick the Book apart all day long and argue every little detail. The main point of the entire book makes much more sense.

Also as other posters have eluded to Satan a fallen angel or the embodiment of sin or however you want to interpret it. The point once again is that going your own way that is not Gods way is another separation. The same as fallen angel being cast from Gods presence as a separation or following that embodiment of sin is separating yourself. Until you decide for yourself of your own freewill that Gods way is the only way.

Personally I do not believe in heaven/hell or god/satan. But I don't believe that it is portrayed that he is stronger.

But I think that Christians in particular have been mislead as to what Lucifer's (Satan) true intentions were. Christians believe he is evil incarnate, but I don't think that he is evil. The best word I can describe Satan would be manipulative. Since in the story of Job, and the famous garden of Eden event, he was testing these people, manipulating them, and trying to persuade them. He didn't do "evil" things that we consider today to be evil, such as murdering, thieving, etc.

Satan was the first person in Christianity to rebel. He didn't want to serve under god for the rest of his life. He wanted his own power and authority. He didn't do it for the sake of evil. He just got feed up being a servant. And we humans share that characteristic. We don't exactly like being told what to do, we want to be independent.

Satan actually wanted us to gain knowledge. Which is why he tempted Eve to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge. I'm sure it maybe because he wanted to do it to smite god, but it seems like he wanted them to have free will, and do as they wanted. And to be able to attain that knowledge.

Many cultures have had deities that are in the form of serpents that gave to them knowledge, and science, etc. And as you know, Satan was said to come in the form of a snake when he tempted Adam and Eve.

What I am ultimately trying to say is, that I don't believe Satan in the Christian faith would be stronger. Because after all apparently good will always prevail in their prophecies. Not to mention It doesn't really seem like Satan wants to be stronger per say. He is just a rebel who wanted to be the master of himself. He did not want to be a servant any longer. And did not want to have to bow down to authority forever. Because in the Christian faith, there is a strong sense of underlying submission. God wants you to trust him no matter what, and worship him and only him. And if you don't he will make you suffer forever and ever.

The Bible Is The Holy Science.

What I find ironic is that Christianity is supposed to give you life, but the path to that life is through a man's death. Jesus calls himself the truth, the way, and the life, yet Christianity teaches that the most important part was his death. "He died for our sins" will be the answer you get when asking a Christian what was so great about Jesus 99.9999% of the time.

In short, Christianity is supposed to be a religion of life, yet it is a death worship cult. Christians worship death thinking that it brings life. No, only life brings life. Christianity is a contradiction to it's core. The doctrine is so flawed it's ridiculous.

arpgme
Think about it:

Because of ONE sin, humanity is evil, but ONE act of righteousness does not make a person pure. This shows the force of evil is stronger

God had to offer his son Jesus Christ as a human sacrifice for a RANSOM of sin. Isn't human sacrifice evik? Yet God had to commit an act of evil to make this DEATH in exchange for killing us and taking us to hell.

The will of God is for people to be saved and go to heaven, the will of Satan is to bring us to hell, since most people will go to hell in the end according to the bible, the will of Satan is stronger than the will of God.

God is Love, but Satan can trick God into vengeance and wrath (violent ANGER) by Sinning.


God says Satan is evil for going against Love, meanwhile the Love god tells people to live by is actually Fear of going to hell .


If Jesus is God and Judas was possessed by Satan, then Satan killed God.


Satan tricked God into bringing pain and suffering to a righteous man, making God a liar since he claimed Sin brings death and punishment and yet he punished one who was righteous in his own eyes (Job, from book of job in bible)


Satan proved his point rebelling against God. God IS a tyrant since whoever uses their free-Will instead of doing what eve r God says will go to hell

Your entire post is a Straw Man Fallacy.

The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. This sort of "reasoning" has the following pattern:
Person A has position X.
Person B presents position Y (which is a distorted version of X).
Person B attacks position Y.
Therefore X is false/incorrect/flawed.

This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because attacking a distorted version of a position simply does not constitute an attack on the position itself. One might as well expect an attack on a poor drawing of a person to hurt the person.

I am sorry sir, but you do not have a full grasp of Biblical theology, and therefore this could also be considered an argument from ignorance.

3NL1GHT3N3D1
What I find ironic is that Christianity is supposed to give you life, but the path to that life is through a man's death. Jesus calls himself the truth, the way, and the life, yet Christianity teaches that the most important part was his death. "He died for our sins" will be the answer you get when asking a Christian what was so great about Jesus 99.9999% of the time.

In short, Christianity is supposed to be a religion of life, yet it is a death worship cult. Christians worship death thinking that it brings life. No, only life brings life. Christianity is a contradiction to it's core. The doctrine is so flawed it's ridiculous.

Spirit is life. These corrupted vessels that houses that Spirit has to die. Parable of wineskins. Old wineskins can't contain new wine, new wineskins can't contain old wine or both would be ruined. That's what the "Resurrection" is, we're waiting on that promise of a new body for that new spirit.

@OP

מוות איפה העוקץ?

Death where is your sting?

Only reason satan was allowed to kill the Lord was to ransom his people. His kingdom is not of "this" materialistic world. That was the day the Lord killed satan. Now we're just waiting for the aftershocks of that earthquake to conclude.

reply to post by arpgme


Your theory sounds reasonable but what if GOD doesn't exist at all, then what alternative description could you provide to describe your observational hypothesis.