Point 103

Kantzveldt
I think in terms of the bigger picture that Reinhard Gehlan would have played the leading role, already In 1945 he was acting with the Americans against Communists in the OSS.

Following the end of World War II, the NSDAP went far underground for five years. In 1950, the international national Socialist movement re-emerged with the reformation of the Thule-Vril-Gesellschaft (Thule-Vril Society). This society was founded in Vienna by German SS veteran Wilhelm Landig under the authority of Reinhard Gehlen, former Major General of the German Wehrmacht and head of military intelligence.

Hmmm? I doubt it, not really Gehlen's style. I don't know what the source is for the above excerpt, it doesn't seem to come from the wiki page that the rest comes from, but it is full of holes. As the wiki page confirms, he was not head of Military intelligence, he was head of OKW's FHO division, hence his usefulness to the US, the Gehlen Org was entirely funded by the US until it's incorporation into the Federal Republic of the newly unified Germany. Additionallly, he was responsible for anti-US intelligence, which is why he was able to surrender with such strategic effectiveness, he knew more about the US intelligence service than OSS and the military on the ground did.

The link you provide regarding Wilhelm Landig being Gehlen's subordinate clearly states that he was a paid informant, not a Gehlen Org employee which makes it highly doubtful that he had any direct contact with Gehlen himself, who, due to the 100K price tag the Soviets had placed on his head, was a virtual recluse in the 1950s. The Landig Group seems to have been more of a literary circle of like minded ariosophists. I can't see them as having much use to Gehlen, especially given their locale, besides, it is more likely, given Landig's association with Karl Heinz Priester, that they belonged to the circle that surrounded Otto Skorzeny.

Priester joined the Deutsche Reichspartei around the time of its formation and became associated with the hard-line neo-Nazi tendency of the party.[2] He was in attendance at the 1951 conference in Malmö that saw the foundation of the European Social Movement.[1] Priester, who by that time was leading his own Deutsch-Soziale Bewegung group, initially had problems attending after his visa was refused but ultimately he was appointed to the four man council of leadership alongside chairman Per Engdahl, Maurice Bardèche and Augusto De Marsanich.[3] Priester was an enthusiastic supporter of the idea of a united Europe[4] although his co-operation with another leading light of that position, Oswald Mosley, was hamstrung by the stormy nature of their persoanl relations.[5]

Priester was a featured essayist for Nation Europa from the journal's foundation in 1951.[6] Working closely with Otto Skorzeny, Priester attempted to utilise the magazine as a rallying point for his dream of European unity and travelled widely promoting this aim, including meetings in London with his rival Mosley.[7] The two even worked together on their shared aim of exporting the idea to South Africa, where Mosely had already secured an alliance with former cabinet minister Oswald Pirow.[8]

He controlled his own publishing house, the Verlag Karl-Heinz Priester, which produced the works of a number of authors including Paul Rassinier.[9] The Verlag also published Advance to Barbarism, an attack on the validity of the Nuremberg Trials by British Union of Fascists and Union Movement activist F.J.P. Veale, with an introduction written by another prominent critic of the trials Maurice Hankey, 1st Baron Hankey.[10]

en.wikipedia.org...

Everything seems to point towards the 'Vril' thing having been concocted post war, which ties in with that groups links to the likes of Ernst Zundel and his activities. The only reference to the Vril prior to the 1950s was an article in a 1947 edition of 'Astounding Science Fiction' regarding a group called the Wahrheitsgesellschaft (Truth Society) who evidently published a couple of pamphlets, 'Vril: The Cosmic Power' and 'World Dynamism' in Berlin in the 1930s. They seemed to be mainly concerned with Atlantis mythology and free energy, no mention of Aldebaran etc at that stage, suggesting that it was manufactured post-war amongst the literary circle that surrounded Skorzeny and Priester. Most of the Thulists failed to survive the war, so I think it safe to presume that the Thulist thing was a borrowing, rather than a resurrection, perhaps by Lanz von Liebenfels. It is interesting though that initially these people pretended to be anti-Hitler, and then later, in the early 70s became more strongly associated with Esoteric Hitlerism and the Holocaust Denial movement.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout



Perhaps as you say, it is all murky and i'm no expert in such areas. The Vril tradition though of course dates back to the publication of 'The Coming Race' in 1871, and is interesting in terms of it's broader considerations of an Underground tradition rather than any specific group.

The novel centres on a young, independently wealthy traveller (the narrator), who accidentally finds his way into a subterranean world occupied by beings who seem to resemble angels and call themselves Vril-ya.

The hero soon discovers that the Vril-ya are descendants of an antediluvian civilisation who live in networks of subterranean caverns linked by tunnels. It is a technologically supported Utopia, chief among their tools being the "all-permeating fluid" called "Vril", a latent source of energy which its spiritually elevated hosts are able to master through training of their will, to a degree which depends upon their hereditary constitution, giving them access to an extraordinary force that can be controlled at will. The powers of the will include the ability to heal, change, and destroy beings and things; the destructive powers in particular are awesomely powerful, allowing a few young Vril-ya children to wipe out entire cities if necessary. It is also suggested that the Vril-ya are fully telepathic


The book was quite popular in the late 19th century, and for a time the word "Vril" came to be associated with "life-giving elixirs". The best known use of "Vril" in this context is in the name of Bovril (a blend of Bovine and Vril)

VRIL

In this sense Landig's account of Point 103 is very much in the Vril tradition, the Vril energy is represented by the curious Mansiolas, the term probably taken from a Cathar initiation toward Spiritual perfection, and perhaps indicating a fusion of the biological/spiritual/technological.

I did not mean Vril for mesmerism, but for electricity, developed into uses as yet only dimly guessed, and including whatever there may be genuine in mesmerism, which I hold to be a mere branch current of the one great fluid pervading all nature. I am by no means, however, wedded to Vril, if you can suggest anything else to carry out this meaning namely, that the coming race, though akin to us, has nevertheless acquired by hereditary transmission, etc., certain distinctions which make it a different species, and contains powers which we could not attain to through a slow growth of time ; so that this race would not amalgamate with, but destroy us. [...]

Now, as some bodies are charged with electricity like the torpedo or electric eel, and never can communicate that power to other bodies, so I suppose the existence of a race charged with that electricity and having acquired the art to concentre and direct it in a word, to be conductors of its lightnings. If you can suggest any other idea of carrying out that idea of a destroying race, I should be glad. Probably even the notion of Vril might be more cleared from mysticism or mesmerism by being simply defined to be electricity and conducted by those staves or rods, omitting all about mesmeric passes, etc

The hereditary suggestions are interesting in terms of how such esoterica might appeal to the Upper class...

Kantzveldt
Perhaps as you say, it is all murky and i'm no expert in such areas. The Vril tradition though of course dates back to the publication of 'The Coming Race' in 1871, and is interesting in terms of it's broader considerations of an Underground tradition rather than any specific group.

Much of the 'tradition' though stems from racist ideology. Bulwer-Lytton wrote what is essentially a science-fiction novel, despite claims to the contrary, he was never part of any esoteric societies, he, like many writers of his time, such as Verne and later Wells, was simply moved by the changes wrought by the industrial age and the coming of technology. Personally, what I find much more interesting is the way in which such ideas captured the popular imagination and as such, were hijacked by those with elitist, white supremist ideals. I was also very amused to find out that Bovril gained it's name from the novel, at a time when the Vril aspect was associated, in line with Bulwer-Lytton's concept, with health elixirs.

In terms of the whole Austria-German adoption of Bulmer-Lytton's novel though, it is hooked on concepts of race, and super humanism. Jorg Lanz von Liebenfels, founder of the Ordo Novi Templi, took those subterraneans to be the original inhabitants of Earth who had interbred with the Aryans who he described as being in possession of electrical super powers. In this way those powers were lost. Again, taken in societal context, we can see that von Lebenfels was influenced by technological advances of the time, electricity being the big thing at that point in time. He incorporated those ideas into the Holy Grail stories, knowing their popular appeal in Germany and created rituals based upon racial 'gnosis' where progress through the ranks was dependent upon the percentage of Aryan blood that the initiates possessed. It was these rituals and racial screenings that Himmler utilised when forming the 'Order of German Manhood'. All other secret societies of course were suppressed under Himmler's, self-requested, direct supervision, Hitler having absolutely no interest in esoterica and the like. Just as the modern Vril society has borrowed from other clubs and societies, so did those that preceeded them. Any basis of truth, however tenuous, is largely based on the power of retrospect, but throughout, just as Lebenfels was able to hitch onto the populist thoughts and pseudo-science of the time, so do the Vienna circle. It is a hook, and it reels in those who are wandering aimlessly looking for answers.

In terms of the elites or upper classes, well, the 'devil' will make work for idle hands. From Augustus who forced upon the masses a homogenised set of rituals that he often ridiculed in private, to the shenigans of the Hell Fire Club, there is often very much less attraction to the esoterica as there is to the idea of permissiveness that they assume underlies it.

I read The Coming Race some years ago one afternoon and found it a good light read for its era. But what I found striking was how it could be placed in modern days with a bit of twist....

A Vril staff is an object in the shape of a wand or a staff which is used as a channel for Vril. The narrator describes it as hollow with 'stops', 'keys', or 'springs' in which Vril can be altered, modified or directed to either destroy or heal. The staff is about the size of a walking stick but can be lengthened or shortened according to the user's preferences. The appearance and function of the Vril staff differs according to gender, age, etc. Some staves are more potent for destruction, others for healing. The staves of children are said to be much simpler than those of sages; in those of wives and mothers the destructive part is removed while the healing aspects are emphasised.

The uses of Vril in the novel amongst the Vril-ya vary from an agent of destruction to a healing substance. According to Zee, the daughter of the narrator's host, Vril can be changed into the mightiest agency over all types of matter, both animate and inanimate. It can destroy like lightning or replenish life, heal, or cure. It is used to rend ways through solid matter. Its light is said to be steadier, softer and healthier than that from any flammable material. It can also be used as a power source for animating mechanisms. Vril can be harnessed by use of the Vril staff or mental concentration.

Hmmm sounds so familiar doesn't it?

Expelliarmus!

reply to post by KilgoreTrout


All of this does occur in conjunction with theories and practical development of electricity, but also there is the Theosophical interest in Eastern mysticism and attempt to compare the one in light of the other, as it were.

It appears that the orbs or Manisolas are compared directly with the Holy Grail, at least in the writings of Miguel Seranno, and that these represent a developed spiritual or astral body of the mystic, or that which is aspired to, which is born from the Earthly body.

The development then toward nurturing this spiritual phenomena within and also interaction with such Celestial types that have not fallen into Earthly form, as far as i can make out.


Seranno part 1


Seranno part 2



reply to post by abeverage



Right well that's what i want for Christmas...

Kantzveldt
All of this does occur in conjunction with theories and practical development of electricity, but also there is the Theosophical interest in Eastern mysticism and attempt to compare the one in light of the other, as it were.

It appears that the orbs or Manisolas are compared directly with the Holy Grail, at least in the writings of Miguel Seranno, and that these represent a developed spiritual or astral body of the mystic, or that which is aspired to, which is born from the Earthly body.

The development then toward nurturing this spiritual phenomena within and also interaction with such Celestial types that have not fallen into Earthly form, as far as i can make out.

Indeed. As I stated before, the trick is to tap into the popular imagination and to cherry-pick accordingly, providing support for those ideas based around largely uncheckable evidence, such as mysterious, unattested to 'ancient texts'. Nothing particularly new there, these are tried and tested methods utilised throughout history as a means of limiting honest, natural mysticism to create a reality construct that fits the aims and objectives of the originator.

In this case, as I outlined in this thread...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

...the focal point is centred around Savitri Devi and Otto Skorzeny, and seeks out writers, such as Miguel Serrano, who are able to reinforce their notions of a alien, supernatural race who will return to Earth. This is supplemented by the recruitment and networking of white race only advocates, anti-gay and feminist movements and Holocaust denial. They provide the man power while not necessary privy to the more extreme esoterica aspects of the 'cause' they are supporting.

Now given that Skorzeny was the son-in-law of Hjalmar Schacht, who though eventually ousted from Hitler's inner circle, initially supported him due to his hardline against the Jews and helped bring him to power, and, Germany to the financial capability of war readiness. He, according to the official record, opposed Hitler's aggressiveness and war mongering, but this was likely fabricated due to his rather extensive list of contact in international finance. According to Gehlen, Schacht was consistently able to twist Skorzeny's arm and get him to do as he wished, such as in Egypt where Skorzeny, despite his own objections, was employed by the US in the training of Nasser's security police following the 1952 'Revolution'.

To cut a very, very long story short, Hitler hit a particular note that was popular, he provided a scapegoat and reflected the general anger of the German people at the betrayal of Versailles, that is why he was utilised and elevated. That experiment, or aspects of it, went awry, but we still have that play in motion, finding the lowest common denominator and using populist ideas, and technological advances as a means of supporting those concepts, all based around telling people exactly what they want hear in a way that frees them of any responsibility.

This video has been posted many times, but it applies here too so I shall repeat myself and others yet again. Most pertinently, what Rob Newman says about creating 'Western-style democracy' as a means of tapping new and exploitable markets...it's the fast-track route to globalism, which while in itself not necessarily a bad thing, it is based entirely on the notion of the ends justifying the means...much as the Holocaust was, and involves the 'masses' being passive supplicants to the process while the elites create an ever widening gap between 'them and us', ensuring that our gaze is directed only at ourselves, fulfilling our needs (and spiritual emptiness) through consumerism, rather than the increasing level of suffering and degradation of resources caused by that very consumerism.



To bring this back round to your OP, Ralf Ettl make all sorts of claims of affiliation, none of which can be verified, and some of which have been refuted by those organisations, namely his claimed membership of the Order of the Knights Templar. None of this matters, because most don't check, because they want to be told, and they want to preserve the illusion that they are privy to something special, and that by association that they are special, chosen, and will be by that association saved. No need to do anything, keep on consuming, turn a blind eye, because a new paradigm is on the way that will readdress the balance and make everything good again.

*sigh*

reply to post by KilgoreTrout



It all seems entirely reactionary to me, they merely attempt to play, and beat, the Jews at their own game, which is one based upon race, Divine justification toward any means and ends, manipulation and control of the masses.

I don't accept the 'goodies and baddies' scenario we are conditioned toward, the ever innocent Jews and the evil Nazi's/Indo-Europeans/racists of the modern mythos, it's a question of what 'progression' is toward and whether reaction of some kind is justified.

Of course the nature of the reaction of the Third Reich and their absolute defeat created the caricatures that are the bogeymen that keep the masses inline to the present, so marginalized adherents to such hopeless cause are allowed their ridiculous antics, Hitler is the ultimate scarecrow and the fear mongering that suggests they are in some way going to make a comeback or have infiltrated Western Governments...not a chance.

Kantzveldt
It all seems entirely reactionary to me, they merely attempt to play, and beat, the Jews at their own game, which is one based upon race, Divine justification toward any means and ends, manipulation and control of the masses.

How do you figure that? And, if it is about beating people at their own game, how does that apply to others who are targeted, such as mixed race couples, homosexuals, Slavs etc, etc, etc, etc? Judaism is a religion, not a race, in fact, the term 'race' has no real basis, it is archaic terminology, even so, to the best of my understanding, the Jews, collectively or otherwise, have not attempted to control the masses, they have simply been accused of doing so, or such ideas have been utilised as a means of manufacturing consent for the persecution of the Jews. So what 'game' is it that you propose the 'Jews' to be playing?

Kantzveldt
I don't accept the 'goodies and baddies' scenario we are conditioned toward, the ever innocent Jews and the evil Nazi's/Indo-Europeans/racists of the modern mythos, it's a question of what 'progression' is toward and whether reaction of some kind is justified.

Could you please expand on what you mean by 'progression' and in that context, what 'reaction' is therefore justified? Thanks.

Kantzveldt
Of course the nature of the reaction of the Third Reich and their absolute defeat created the caricatures that are the bogeymen that keep the masses inline to the present, so marginalized adherents to such hopeless cause are allowed their ridiculous antics, Hitler is the ultimate scarecrow and the fear mongering that suggests they are in some way going to make a comeback or have infiltrated Western Governments...not a chance.

I agree, in part, but then the people that installed Hitler in power were not actually defeated, they pocketed the money and moved onto to other things. The masses chose to believe what Hitler et al was marketing, as they choose to believe what is being marketed now, until it impinges upon their way of life, then they look for someone to blame. The people that put Hitler in power have infiltrated Western governments, at the time, many of them were in Western government. That those 'bogeymen' as you call them, are able to keep the masses in line, I beg to differ, by creating the concept of them as 'monsters', detaching them from their obvious humanity, it permitted many to seperate themselves from the very real presence in all to follow the herd, succumb to group-think and fail to accept responsibility for our own actions, and in actions. If anything, rather than the 'ultimate scarecrow', Hitler was the ultimate parent. His people did what they were told, or what they thought would bring them favour with that parent. By labelling Hitler as a monster, we allow ourselves the luxury of believing that it was all about him, and had nothing to do with our own complicity as individuals in turning a blind eye and failing to stand up for, and protect every member of society, and to instead label others (and any difference) as the problem, who's removal will usher in change.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

How do you figure that? And, if it is about beating people at their own game, how does that apply to others who are targeted, such as mixed race couples, homosexuals, Slavs etc, etc, etc, etc? Judaism is a religion, not a race, in fact, the term 'race' has no real basis, it is archaic terminology, even so, to the best of my understanding, the Jews, collectively or otherwise, have not attempted to control the masses, they have simply been accused of doing so, or such ideas have been utilised as a means of manufacturing consent for the persecution of the Jews. So what 'game' is it that you propose the 'Jews' to be playing?

I didn't use the term 'race', i would consider the Jews an ethnic group with basis in Judaism, try telling the atheistic Jews they aren't Jewish. Historically they have always maintained strong group identity and understood the need for collective behaviour within potentially hostile Nations.

Most societies have seen mixed-race couples and homosexuality as detrimental to them to differing degrees, but such generally also took place with little uproar, this only becomes a real issue when it is actively promoted and there is thus a reaction against such.

The game i would consider the Jews to have been playing is the absolute consolidation of their own position within Western Nations, from the time of their alliance with Protestantism through the Masonic Lodges, this was always tenuous when the Catholic Church was influential.

This game involves undermining any position that could be discriminatory against the Jews, equality therefore of all religions and ethnic groups within the Nation as the ideal, undermining all traditions particular to the indigenous ethnic group which reinforce their sense of a singular identity, undermining also any sense that they are of any particular value or significance, in short creating an aimless and degenerate society that believes in nothing especially themselves.

All this seems to have passed you by, but the Bolshevik Revolution is the classic example, and while it is generally passed off that the reaction of the likes of the Latvians and Ukranians against the Jews when the Soviets lost control of those regions was based on groundless anti-semitism and false accusations i consider that denial and ignorance of the horrors that had been inflicted on those people by the predominantly Jewish Bolsheviks and Commissars.

Could you please expand on what you mean by 'progression' and in that context, what 'reaction' is therefore justified? Thanks.

In this context what i mean by 'progression' is anything that weakens the indigenous populace and consolidates Jewish interests, whether it be the emasculation of men, the promotion of women as whores, the reduction of society toward bestial instincts, desensitivity toward violence and self gratification as well as mindless escapism...oh and of course ridiculing and marginalizing those who complain.

Reaction of any value is no longer possible in any normative sense in my opinion, but then i don't see this as any sort of conspiracy in the normative sense.

I agree, in part, but then the people that installed Hitler in power were not actually defeated, they pocketed the money and moved onto to other things. The masses chose to believe what Hitler et al was marketing, as they choose to believe what is being marketed now, until it impinges upon their way of life, then they look for someone to blame. The people that put Hitler in power have infiltrated Western governments, at the time, many of them were in Western government. That those 'bogeymen' as you call them, are able to keep the masses in line, I beg to differ, by creating the concept of them as 'monsters', detaching them from their obvious humanity, it permitted many to seperate themselves from the very real presence in all to follow the herd, succumb to group-think and fail to accept responsibility for our own actions, and in actions. If anything, rather than the 'ultimate scarecrow', Hitler was the ultimate parent. His people did what they were told, or what they thought would bring them favour with that parent. By labelling Hitler as a monster, we allow ourselves the luxury of believing that it was all about him, and had nothing to do with our own complicity as individuals in turning a blind eye and failing to stand up for, and protect every member of society, and to instead label others (and any difference) as the problem, who's removal will usher in change.

Hitler was popular whilst carrying out the platform he was elected on, furthering Pan-Germanic interests, reducing Jewish interests, countering the Communists, restoring German pride and industry, he wasn't expected to cater for all sections of society when there were such deep and dangerous divisions within it, but with absolute power came absolute disaster.

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Ample proof exists that the fascists were with us before the Reich, and that Nazi Germany was a test run. It never was about race, sexual preference, or religion; except insofar as irrational prejudices can be leveraged against the population.

(Which isn't to say that some of them aren't racist as hell-- some of them genuinely carry that torch, and wear the matching bedsheet.)

It's about class and control, Allen Dulles is just the tip of the iceberg. And that iceberg is made of frozen globalist poo. Lots and lots and lots of proof, despite many exhaustive attempts at obliterating the collective memory and redacting the history books. If you take all the threads together, they lead you from the basement of the UN to the greatest industrial families in the World, from every major think tank to every major banking institution.

And furthermore, proof exists that the real fascists funded both the Bolshies and the Nazis-- turning a profit both ways, breaking down all those pesky nation states, and honing the engineering approaches soon to be unleashed on the entire planet.

No definitive proof, however, exists to support the idea of an international Jewish conspiracy to rule the world.

reply to post by Eidolon23



The Italian Fascist Movement certainly pre-dates the Third Reich, but i find it hard to take them seriously, they were just an extension of the Futurist Modernist Arts movement, all style and little substance, the ideology behind Modernism is more interesting as it applied to the Bolsheviks.

The game is to a large extent that of Monopoly, control of the board and all resources, including the human, but i also consider agenda beyond that and only one winner.

The main grievance of Hitler and his supporters against the Jews was that they had switched sides in the First World war, initially supporting Germany and her allies through finance up until 1916, then supporting the opposition after Britain's promise of the Jewish state in Palestine, and then extending the Communist subversion into Germany to cause collapse from within, this resentment leading on to them becoming a rogue player within the game.

Conspiracy aspects i do think are often over simplified and stated, generally this is just about people following their natural inclinations...

Kantzveldt
I didn't use the term 'race', i would consider the Jews an ethnic group with basis in Judaism, try telling the atheistic Jews they aren't Jewish. Historically they have always maintained strong group identity and understood the need for collective behaviour within potentially hostile Nations.

But you did use the term ‘race’. Right here...

Kantzveldt
It all seems entirely reactionary to me, they merely attempt to play, and beat, the Jews at their own game, which is one based upon race, Divine justification toward any means and ends, manipulation and control of the masses.

And I wouldn’t dream of telling a Jew that they aren’t Jewish, silly!

Kantzveldt
Most societies have seen mixed-race couples and homosexuality as detrimental to them to differing degrees, but such generally also took place with little uproar, this only becomes a real issue when it is actively promoted and there is thus a reaction against such.

In Germany, both prior and subsequent to the Nazis assuming power, homosexual expression was illegal and not actively promoted. As we know from Isherwood’s Berlin Stories, homosexuality did exist as a sub-culture, but covertly, by necessity due to the restrictions of the law, much like elsewhere. It hardly represented a threat, and Hitler personally tolerated certain homosexuals in his inner circle. So I find little support for your theory that the persecution, incarceration, enmasse, of some 50-100,000 homosexuals, was reactive.

In terms of mixed-race couples, reaction is one based on racial purity, a modern notion that only entered into popular opinion in the 19th century, prior to that, objection was based more on social status rather than skin colour or racial heritage. By inventing the idea of race, such unions were deemed ‘detrimental’ as you put it, so again, not reactive.

Kantzveldt

The game i would consider the Jews to have been playing is the absolute consolidation of their own position within Western Nations, from the time of their alliance with Protestantism through the Masonic Lodges, this was always tenuous when the Catholic Church was influential.

This game involves undermining any position that could be discriminatory against the Jews, equality therefore of all religions and ethnic groups within the Nation as the ideal, undermining all traditions particular to the indigenous ethnic group which reinforce their sense of a singular identity, undermining also any sense that they are of any particular value or significance, in short creating an aimless and degenerate society that believes in nothing especially themselves.

All this seems to have passed you by, but the Bolshevik Revolution is the classic example, and while it is generally passed off that the reaction of the likes of the Latvians and Ukranians against the Jews when the Soviets lost control of those regions was based on groundless anti-semitism and false accusations i consider that denial and ignorance of the horrors that had been inflicted on those people by the predominantly Jewish Bolsheviks and Commissars.

Having been on these boards for over six years, I can assure you that none of these arguments have passed me by, and they are no truer today than they were when Hitler/Hess/Haushofer made them in Mein Kampf, or Rosenberg in The Myth of the Twentieth Century. Despite what Goebbels said, something does not become true through repetition, however, there will always be those who believe it because that is what they want to believe and in a free world, they are entitled to do so. I have no real complaint with that as long as it is extended to all with due respect.

Kantzveldt
The Italian Fascist Movement certainly pre-dates the Third Reich, but i find it hard to take them seriously, they were just an extension of the Futurist Modernist Arts movement, all style and little substance, the ideology behind Modernism is more interesting as it applied to the Bolsheviks.

For an extension of an artist movement they sure did a lot of damage...

The 1935-36 Italian fascist invasion and subsequent occupation of Ethiopia were accompanied by numerous atrocities: the use of mustard gas, the bombing of Red Cross hospitals and ambulances, the execution of captured prisoners without trial, the Graziani massacre, the killings at Däbrä Libanos monastery, and the shooting of "witch-doctors" accused of prophesying the end of fascist rule. These acts are historically interesting, not only in themselves, but also in that they were brought to the international community's attention on two separate occasions: to the League of Nations, when they were committed, and later, to the United Nations.

muse.jhu.edu...

For the rest of that day, through Saturday and Sunday, Italians killed Ethiopians with daggers and truncheons to the shouts of "Duce! Duce!" and "Civiltà Italiana!" They doused native houses with gasoline and set them on fire. They broke into the homes of local Greeks and Armenians and lynched their servants. Some even posed on the corpses of their victims to have their photographs taken.[4] In three days, the Italians had killed 30,000 Ethiopians in Addis Ababa only. The first day is commemorated as "Yekatit 12" (Ethiopian February 19) till now. There is a monument called by the same name in Addis Ababa in memory of those Ethiopian victims of Italian aggression.

Thousands of Ethiopians of all classes were sent to detention camps at Danan in the Ogaden and Nokra in the Dahlak Archipelago. Conditions at Danan were inhospitable, and Graziani had given orders that the prisoners would receive only the bare minimum of food and water. As Sbacchi notes, "Poor facilities, including latrines, the humid climate, malaria, stomach infections, and venereal disease took many lives, especially among those compelled to work on the irrigation canal or on the banana and sugar-cane plantations." Between ten percent and half of the prisoners died at Danan.[8]

Conditions at Nokra were even worse than at Danan, according to Sbacchi. The detainees sent there joined 500 prisoners serving life sentences for serious political crimes, increasing the total number incarcerated to 1,500. These inmates suffered from lack of fresh water, sunstroke, marsh fever, and dysentery.[9]
The final reprisal struck in May. Investigators found that Abraha and Mogus had stayed a while at Debra Libanos, and slight circumstantial evidence suggested that the monks had foreknowledge of their plans. Graziani, mindful of his misadventure at Jijiga, believed they were complicit and 19 May cabled the local commander, "Therefore execute summarily all monks without distinction including the Vice-Prior." The following day, a feast day of their patron saint Tekle Haymanot, 297 monks plus 23 laymen were shot—the entire population of the monastery.[4]

en.wikipedia.org...

The British authorities, like you, couldn't take the Italians seriously, hence why they got away with their share of WW2 atrocities.

The distortion can partly be blamed on British prejudices about Italian soldiers being soft and essentially harmless, says Nic Fields, a military historian at the University of Edinburgh: "Many British historians liked to focus on the luxury items found in Italian barracks. It reinforced the image of opera buffoons. Your average Tommy tended to caricature the Italians as poor sods caught up in the war."

www.theguardian.com...

Kantzveldt
The game is to a large extent that of Monopoly, control of the board and all resources, including the human, but i also consider agenda beyond that and only one winner.

The main grievance of Hitler and his supporters against the Jews was that they had switched sides in the First World war, initially supporting Germany and her allies through finance up until 1916, then supporting the opposition after Britain's promise of the Jewish state in Palestine, and then extending the Communist subversion into Germany to cause collapse from within, this resentment leading on to them becoming a rogue player within the game.

I have no idea where you get this idea from. Germany was financed by Seimens and Krupp predominantly, with some overseas financing organised through Schroder and the Wallenbergs. No Jewish finance. Or physical support for that matter. General Ludendorff, who took charge of the military dictatorship of Germany following the Kaiser's flight in 1916 actually came to an agreement with Lenin to provide him safe passage back to Russia in exchange for taking Russia out of the war. He delivered. It was British SIS that dropped the leaflets that led to the German Navy personnel to mutiny, and they too that skuppered the German fleet. The Bolsheviks, Jewish or otherwise, had no part in it whatsoever. And it was Woodrow Wilson's 15 Points that led directly to the German surrender, he didn't deliver, the rest of the Allied nations would not allow him to do so. The Arabs got bitten in the ass on that promise of self-determination too, as did others. Germany were screwed over certainly, but not by Jewish interests, Bolshevik or otherwise.

Kantzveldt
Conspiracy aspects i do think are often over simplified and stated, generally this is just about people following their natural inclinations...

I agree, but not for any of the reasons that you have put forth.

reply to post by KilgoreTrout

You speak my mind KilgoreTrout - and with a wealth of knowledge.

Chapeau!

A

reply to post by KilgoreTrout



But you are playing the word game of the Frankfurt School, setting out what words can and cannot be used through shallow associations and manipulating through semantics, it's an exercise in mind control on your part, frame the debate, make me dance to your tune and then laugh if i stumble...i think that game is wicked.

And then you wish to play a card game were the chips are human lives and your opening card is that of Italian atrocities, which i counter with Belgians in the Congo, and then this goes on and i'm left holding three aces and i think i should win, but then you play a Joker and i don't think that card should be allowed, but the House rules somehow insist it is and so i lose...i think that game is crooked.

And then we come back to the board game of Monopoly which suitably bores me and it's all about who owns what and who's giving money to who, and the only good thing about it is that sometimes you get to win first prize in a beauty contest and stay in a Mayfair Hotel in between spells in jail..i think this entire game bonkers.

reply to post by Kantzveldt

Now that was a really weird reply to someone just stating facts Kant.

A

reply to post by Kantzveldt


I had to look up the Frankfurt School, never heard of it. As for games, not really my thing, I am currently trying to dissuade my son from putting Monopoly on his christmas list...loathe the game, and most board (bored) games for that matter...though I am partial to Scrabble, and the odd game of Cluedo when the mood hits me. I do have voyeuristic tendencies though, and people watching is a favourite pass-time. I don't laugh when people stumble, I do like to lend a hand though, if it is welcome.

I was fully aware of your prejudices, it colours everything that you write and present on these boards, this thread offered me an opportunity to pick your brain and see how aware you are of that, and I am pleased to see that you lack any real conviction in those views, they are just something that you have adhered too, not something that is deep seated or fanatically based. More a sensitivity of the palette than an acquired taste.

You are clearly a very intelligent young woman, and as I have said before, you have an exceptional eye for finding interesting bits and pieces, but your perception is somewhat rigid and when pressed, you struggle to express an opinion and become guarded, or quote others. You don't trust yourself, or your intuition, and that I think is a shame, because clearly, there is a very passionate and expressive woman screaming to get out. And I for one, look forward to the day that she does, because I bet she is really very, very interesting.

All the very best, and I apologise for raising your hackles (again)

reply to post by Kantzveldt


Point 103, interesting number.
It’s the number for Ibles, the Islamic Devil
What is the meaning, according to this group, of the 103?

reply to post by Willtell


I think in the context of the group that the OP refers to I think that it means this...

Location of the Nazi expedition to the Elder Things’ City in Antarctica. The only surviving records of the Karotechia’s Operation ICE PALACE state that the city was thought to be Ancient Thule.

Access to Point 103 was by U-boat via a 6 kilometre wide ice cavern known as “The Harbour”. There was also a tunnel to the surface and aircraft including Focke-Wulf Condors but these were rarely used.

Point 103 was abandoned in June 1945 when the “Thulian Generator” (most probably a Shoggoth) malfunctioned and killed most of the remaining personnel.

fairfieldproject.wikidot.com...

But on a deeper level, as in what the group are referring to on a inner-knowledge basis, is this...

The Planned Counter-Attack by I. SS-Panzer-Korps
However, Panzer-Lehr was still a full day’s march away from its start-line between Bretteville-
Orgueilleuse and Brouay and the plan was already starting to unravel: 12th SS had encountered
the 3rd Canadian Division advancing in force to cut the N13 Caen-Bayeux highway. The SS had
beaten back the first Canadian advance, but had themselves been beaten off when they
attempted to resume their attack toward the beaches. As more Canadian brigades came south,
the 12th SS had been forced to switch from an offensive to a defensive posture along the line of
the N13. To make matters worse, the 12th SS Recce Battalion had reported that
Panzer-Lehr’s planned start-line was already firmly in Canadian hands and that British troops were already south of the N13 at St Leger and were now advancing south along the Seulles valley and toward the
high ground at Audrieu.

Panzer-Lehr was now ordered to mount a single-division attack down the Villers-Bocage to Bayeux axis, thereby outflanking the British and Canadian formations that had so far been detected along the N13.
On the morning of 9th June, despite considerable harassment by Allied fighter-bombers during
their march, a sizeable battlegroup from Panzer-Lehr was finally in position at Juaye-Mondaye,
only a few kilometres south of Bayeux and ready to strike at the city. However, other elements of
the division had been engaged between Tilly-sur-Seulles and Fontenay-le-Pesnel by the forward
elements of 50th (Northumbrian) Division and 8th Armoured Brigade, who had side-stepped the
12th SS Recce Battalion at Audrieu to take the high ground at Point 103 and the village of St
Pierre. The attack on Bayeux was soon called off and the division’s offensive efforts were re-
directed to re-taking St Pierre and Point 103. The attack on Bayeux had in any case, run into 56th
Independent Infantry Brigade at Ellon and was about to encounter the 22nd Armoured Brigade
(7th Armoured Division), which was marching through Bayeux with the intention of driving through
Tilly-sur-Seulles and driving on to Villers-Bocage.

www.fireandfury.com...

This is a more detailed account which sheds better light, but I can't copy the text...

www.canadianmilitaryhistory.ca...

This was a unit of Hitler Youth, and by all accounts they were better equipped than any other SS or Wehrmacht Panzer division. Once they had gained Point 103, they went around shooting the Canadian wounded and the POWs. Oddly enough, much of the modern Far Right, particularly Ernst Zundel, is organised and funded through Canada...which is why I think that this may be some, not so subtle, nose thumb at the hand that feeds them. Zundel was the first to popularise the Nazis in Antartica and their hidden UFO Fleet. It also fits in with such Far-Right group's tactic of targeting university students, getting them before they form opinions of their own, so to speak.

Amazingly interesting.

This is a mythological and antediluvian super race of some sort who influenced humankind that the NAZIS were trying to interface with.
This may be some kind of primordial archetypal mythological specious related to the “Jinn” of the Koran
Recall that these Jinn mythologically were the beings who were responsible for the fall of Adam.
Iblees was the name of this Jinn entity race and their number, by the mystical cipher of the
ABJAD IS 103


They may be the last remnant of those ancient Jinn who were responsible for the creation of the devil archetype in humans!
WOW!