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Point 103

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posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 08:47 AM
I want to consider here the activities and beliefs of the Landig Group and their successors Causa Nostra, the thread title 'Point 103' refers to Wilhelm Landig's allegorical Arctic base he created in his Thule Trilogy, and his doctrine of the Black Sun.

Landig was a former member of the SS who either took it upon himself or acted in conjunction with others to promote the ideals of Himmler and the SS in the post-war period

There have been claims that Landig was given a mission by Himmler to revive the Aryan imagination after the defeat through symbolism, therefore prompting the creation of the Landig Group and its literature.

Landig does not mention National Socialism and presents its party members as counterproductive or antagonistic, despite the fact that the entirety of the Germanic-folkish movement of the SS was founded by the NSDAP and Hitler

Another factor allowing Landig to propagate claims against Hitler was the fact that the surviving folkish movement did not require, and nor did it want, the worship of Hitler. Landig could view Hitler’s person as anathema and still propagate an ariosophical, “Aryan” world-view such as he did in the Landig Group and the ideology of the Black Sun. This effectively establishes a “new movement” without the full stigma of Nazism from the past.

Landig's claims and situation in Geramny

Wilhelm Landig (interview)

The essential struggle for Landig was that against Judaic inspired beliefs and systems of thought, whether Masonic, Bolshevik or indeed Christian, even to the extent that the essence of the struggle was against Jehovah.

He believed that Hitler and the Third Reich had been compromised by such at least from 1933, and had in effect become an aspect of that perceived evil. His identification was with Thule and the volkish movement, as well as the elite warrior values of the SS.

Considering that it was Thule that had established the NSDAP, that had laid the esoteric foundations and instructed in the art of propaganda and mass mind control techniques, provided the basis of the iconography and projected archetypes, his feelings were of betrayal.

Gotzen gegen Thule is fundamentally an adventure story that follows the exploits of two German airmen, Recke and Reimer (which Godwin translates as 'Brave Warrior' and 'Poet' respectively), who are sent to a secret German base in the far north of Canada towards the end of the Second World War.

This base, known as Point 103, is a large underground facility possessing highly advanced technology and supplied by powerful allies in the United States. Its occupants constitute a force opposed to the Third Reich, which is seen as a Satanic force.

Point 103 is, in fact, solidly anti-racist, as evidenced by one scene in which a conference there is attended by, 'a Tibetan lama, Japanese, Chinese, and American officers, Indians, a Black Ethiopian, Arabs, Persians, a Brazilian officer, a Venezuelan, a Siamese, and a full-blooded Mexican Indian'.

Thule Trilogy

Point 103 then is not an extension of the Third Reich, but a Thulean independent group opposed to it, working with esoteric groups from around the world that are in opposition to the Judeo-Christian/Masonic World Order

The two airmen are sent on a mission to Prague to prevent the disc-plane technology from falling into Allied hands; following the end of the war and the defeat of Nazi Germany, Point 103 declares itself independent and continues with its pursuit of Thulean ideals.

The light of Thule comes not from the East but from the North. Its tradition is 'Uranian,' being derived from Uranos, lord of the cosmic world order and of the primordial Paradise of the Aryan Race, situated at the North Pole.

It was Uranos's usurping son Saturn who brought upon this originally happy and unified humanity the dubious gift of the egoic state. The temptations consequent upon this change in the human constitution lead to the loss of primeval unity and, eventually, the destruction of Saturn's realm, Atlantis.

Landig posits a Uranian tradition of the unified conciousness of the mystic, that would communicate through telepathy, that see's the egotistical condition of humanity as a lower state, which he relates to Saturnine influence.

He also indicates that there is a force associate with the Uranian;

Landig describes in elaborate detail the nature of this phenomenon, which he calls 'Manisolas'. They are living, intelligent bio-mechanical entities with a complex life cycle that begins as a circle of light and continues through a metallic form before reaching the reproductive stage. Through a regenerative process, a new Manisola grows within the womb of the adult.

The regenerated part is expelled by the remaining mother-nucleus as a new energetic circle of light, corresponding to a birthing technique. This new circle enters on the same seven developmental stages, while the expelling maternal element rolls itself into a ball, which then explodes. The metallic remains contain particles of copper. The optical impressions that eyewitnesses of these Manisolas have had up to now are basically quite uniform.

In the daytime they display an extremely bright gold or silver luminescence, sometimes with traces of rose-colored smoke which then often condense into grayish-white trails. At night the disks shine in glowing or glossy colors, showing on occasion long flames at the edges and red and blue sparks, which can grow so strong as to wreathe them in fire. Most remarkable is their power of reaction against pursuers, like that of a rational creature, far exceeding any possible electronic self-steering or radio control.

Landig goes on to describe how, throughout the ages, all mythologies refer in one way or another to the Manisolas, which are seen as symbols of spiritual potency, unity and love. Although Point 103 is claimed to be a non-racist society, the Thuleans nevertheless consider Israel to be in eternal opposition to their ideals

The Black Order

He describes then at Point 103 a large gathering of esoteric groups from around the world that have dedicated themselves to the Black Sun cause, that either wear Red robes or Black for the higher initiates.

Behind the curtain opened up a spacious hall which bore a set of steps leading downward. And here they saw a picture they presumed to be the product of an exalted imagination. An uncommon hall with uncommon people.

The room worked like the nave of a church. On both sides of the elongated hall ran some benches on which some of the men of the station sat. The aisles were lower and the processional path of the hall continued through four more planes. Upon this path stood a procession of a type of people which for the most part wore red capes.

At the head of the procession were foreign guests, whose attire also emphasized the strangeness of this assembly. Over everyone dominated the black, helmet-like headdress of the Tibetan Ta Lama, the Japanese next to him becoming small. While the Tibetan wore the already-known black robe, the Japanese officers had their uniforms on as well, however, also having black robes draped around them.

posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 08:49 AM
This all sounds very Satanic, but apparently not, it's Uranian...he looks to common cultural traditions of the Sacred Mountain of the North, Ultima Thule.

Whilst the emblem is that of the Black Sun, going through the alchemical process to red, the final transition is expected to be pure white or silver.

We ambassadors of the Black Dragon bring the greetings of our organization to the lords of Point 103. The Dragon is ready to fulfill the Great Commandment of the world with other organizations and and is willing to cooperate in its redesign. In a struggle on mental and mystical levels, the covenant will do everything in its power for the achievement of our major goals together with the members of the Ootomo Office. The Red Sun and the Black Sun serve the same lord! That is our message and we will take the resolves decided here by the Dragon in the face of our sacred mountain.

The basis of the philosophy closely corresponds with that of Julius Evola in his book Revolt against the Modern World which sets itself against all perceived maternal/chthonic values and darkness and envisions a pure celestial conciousness of a warrior elite for whom the end always justifies the means.

There is then also the correspondence between shunning all worldly and egotistical desires and transcending as an illuminated Order, all very much in keeping with the aesthetic and spiritual interests of Himmler.

With regards to the successors of the Landig Vienna group, Causa Nostra, whilst responsible for much of the Vril and Aldebaranrelated iconography and hoax images of Haunebu and the promotion of Isais and the Untersberg, they are very much also concerned with an Italian-German axis based upon Venice and a supposed Ordo Bucintoro, that being the golden barque which symbolized the rulers of Venice.

The ideal of Evola was essentialy that of the Roman Empire without the plebians.

Key works that Causa Nostra promote in this regard are The Apparitionist by Friedrich Schiller and the opera The Tales of Hoffman by Offenbach.

To understand why is not so easy, but in the opera the poet Hoffman listens to his own inner muse and rejects relationship with a Prima Donna known as Stella.

Hoffmann, drunk, swears he will never love again, and explains that Olympia, Antonia, and Giulietta are three facets of a same person, Stella. They represent, respectively, the young girl's, the musician's, and the courtesan's side of the prima donna. When Hoffmann says he doesn't want to love any more, Nicklausse reveals himself as the Muse and reclaims Hoffmann: "Be reborn a poet! I love you, Hoffmann! Be mine!" The magic of poetry reaches Hoffmann as he sings O Dieu! de quelle ivresse once more, ending with "Muse whom I love, I am yours!" At this moment, Stella, who is tired of waiting for Hoffmann to come to her rendezvous, enters the tavern and finds him drunk.

What he has in essence rejected is the cult of the Goddess Venus and her masquerades, or the breaking down into three aspects, one of which is the doll/automaton Olympia, which concerns itself with seeing comely form as function, being based upon The Sandman novel.

Hoffmann's first love is Olympia, an automaton created by the scientist Spalanzani. Hoffmann falls in love with her, not knowing that Olympia is a mechanical doll

In the Schiller novel the beautiful apparation of a Goddess like figure in Venice is seen to lead to nothing but eventual ruin, and thus again the point is the rejection of such and the realization of the goal of ruthless self determination toward inward self purity of intent.

The illusions created are a means toward an end in terms of understanding, the Vril Damen, Isias, Aldebaran and Taurus ultimately to be slain by the all conquering warrior, as represented by Mithra in Landig's ceremonial Hall at Point 103, the cult of the Roman Legionaire...

The back wall of the hall itself had a huge sculpted mural; to all peoples with humanistic education it was known also as the Mithras Relief. The lord of the sun, slaying the bull, and on either side the torch bearers

I find it interesting that groups would promote the opposite of what they hope toward, the double cross, in the quest for power at the spiritual level, but that is seemingly the case here, that the creation of illusion and the promotion of mystery and romance is only intended as the destruction of such, in the interest of a presumed Higher state of being, that they would eradicate the spirit of the Earth, if not the Earth itself towards this end.

But if there is to be a proving, i don't think that's the way it will go down.

But of course all endings must be secret or it spoils surprise...

posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 09:36 AM
I am going to jump in here having only read the first half of yet another intriguing thread Kantz!

Thule, WWII and some of the aftereffects are something I am very interested in. I am curious of what impact this had on United States and if we are now seeing a subversive agenda of either the NAZI or the Thule society. Looking at Operation HighJump it was clear there was an agenda similar to the NAZI with conquest of the poles. After Operation Paperclip US military, espionage, surveillance and technology took some giant leaps, many of which led to the establishing the CIA, NSA, and more importantly NASA...

And then there is the lesser known Operation Nanook that was actually based in New Thule in Greenland to establish radio communications and eventually an airbase. Were these just strategic locations or something else?

As always Bravo!

I will continue reading and see what else I can glean...

P.S. The Black Sun is an invisible sun or anti-sun...Sting of The Police was very interested in the Esoteric during the early years. Wrapped around your finger is about Masonry and of course there was the Invisible Sun...

edit on 12-11-2013 by abeverage because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 12 2013 @ 10:10 AM
reply to post by abeverage

Thanks, i don't think it so difficult to understand what Landig posited as the Black Sun symbolism, in that it refers to the light (of the Sun) in the Underworld, the establishment of an Underground movement of those he would consider the Illuminated that would rise again.

The transition from Black to White would pass the intermediate phase of red, probably to be understood in this context as war and destruction.

He does make clear this was not an extension of the Third Reich, but had global support of esoteric groups, particularly with Military values, suggesting that even during the war Americans with such sympathies were working in conjunction with Thule, in terms of an anti-Masonic/Bolshevik/Judeo-Christian position...that this position is independent of any government, and that they create the illusions which will pull the rug from under the feet of the masses, and in doing so create social unrest.

It shouldn't be overlooked that Thule put together in promoting the NSDAP every aspect of the package that persuades the populist masses, the grabbing of the attention and the capturing of the imagination.

posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 12:11 AM
Correct me if I'm mistaken, but is the take-away here that the only worthy emanation of the feminine is the internally expressed anima of the male of the species? That's pretty Mithraic alright, but it would seem that it's been taken to its most life-despising extreme.

Awesome thread, Ms. K. You're a treasure.

posted on Nov, 13 2013 @ 05:15 AM
reply to post by Eidolon23

Yes that's pretty much it, a religion of the esoteric martial artiste, which of course remains very true to the spirit of Himmler and the SS, as well as the likes of Rohm and the SA who Landig considered Hitler had betrayed...a boys only club with narcissistic and homosexual overtones.

It is based upon Metaphysical considerations were the Masculine polarity is that of the pure white light and thus to the ultimate exclusion of the Feminine, in such sense they draw upon the traditions of the Cathars and the Perfecti in conjunction with the Holy Knights Templar.

The Manisolas that Landig refered to, the bio-mechanical orbs, was the name for a Cathar Festival'

The Manisola was a holiday or feast celebrated by the Cathars, a Christian religious sect that emerged during the Middle Ages in the Languedoc region of France. It was a major initiation ceremony of the Perfecti, the members of the spiritual elite according to Cathar doctrine

The underground is associate with the Feminine and it is from that mysterious realm they expect to emerge, from the shadows as it were, with the Feminine also acting as catalyst toward that rosy sunrise, the role of Black Isais for Causa Nostra in creating conflict...thus their interest in Ishtar in her militant aspect.

A belief system then for those who believe everything will fall apart, and are quite prepared to work toward that end, and that a Militaristic Spiritual Elite will step in to impose their own Order on a world wide scale, Ninurta with his own agenda.

They do actually look toward the return of a certain Julietta, the third aspect of Stella from the Hoffman opera, but this is probably toward a version of Romeo and Juliet were Romeo ends up ruling the Earth.

Double Immortals

The central idea of ​​the Ordo Bucintoro was the establishment of a MOGUL NOVUM. where the Roman and the Germanic world should unite for the common control of a new aeon.

The template for this idea was the same that had been considered for the Wiener Templars, they went back to the Roman Emperor Octavian Augustus, whose idea it had been to Rome and Germania to unite in a common realm, rather than waging war.

More recently, this motif inspired probably the Rome-Berlin Axis. The Thule Order of 20 Century, who had played a role in Germany until the takeover of National Socialism, considered himself also evident such as True Templar ideas.

The Templar myth after, Augustus was to be reborn in the rise of the New Aeon by the magical marriage with a Germanic and exercise dominion over the IMPERIUM NOVUM.

Julietta and Ordo Bucintoro

The cult of the Unsterblichen, the Immortals and their looked for return, also finds expression in the contemporary Far Right movement.

But i don't think many here can understand much of this as it's so shrouded in darkness, but i'm sure you've noticed the tendency of Military types to stick together...

edit on Kam1130316vAmerica/ChicagoWednesday1330 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

edit on Kam1130316vAmerica/ChicagoWednesday1330 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 12:53 AM
reply to post by Kantzveldt

Yeah, close as two dudes riding bareback on the same horse.

Not that I'm a fan of using long hair like an antennae to contact mischievous lower astrals, but I found this hit piece on the Vrildamen published on the Causa Nostra site particularly illuminating when it comes to understanding that one of the deepest roots of fascism is the hatred of women, and the absolute refusal to recognize them as other than chattel or subhuman.

Which hurts these men, too, as much as they are loathe to poke around the wound.

Rather than going into any of the weird facts or fascinating implications of the Vrildamen legend, the article focuses on the supposed limitations of the sex, the physical appearance of the women in question (implying that their sole value lay in their beauty), and the unlikelihood of technological innovation driven by anyone with a vagina.

The latter part of the article is particularly face-palm inducing. Swinging from the implication that beauty is the only quality a woman has to offer, the author turns to castigating the subjects of the article for their vanity-- failing utterly to document any such thing.

Oh, and my favorite piece of horsewank?

Women are incapable of friendship.

"Cause, you know. They're inferior to us mens who can get together in cozy little lodges and tickle each other's sacks."

Here, the ladies in general is now first talk about the cooperation. Moreover, we are quite well informed. This is due to an even more personal contact and correspondence received from the county at that time. Thus it can be said that the conditions within the Vril women community were no different than the togetherness of women tends to be due to the nature with absolute certainty. No lady will contradict or even feel offended when we say: women walk differently to each other than men. What is meant by classic male friendship and camaraderie among which there is in such a way not among women. Even when women are "best friends" and yet those female friendships are different than male friendships, they are also fragile., It is unnecessary to seek philosophers or the psychology along with Freud, Jung and Adler, who wrote about all of this, because it simply lies in the different procured psyche of women and men.

Adler - Freud - Jung

While men are inherently predisposed aligned to the community, women are a greater individuality and a strong, quasi-selective reference to the man and the family. With good right there is the word "team", but not the opposite of "womanhood", because even if women are constantly raped mentally from now ruling system against their nature, they still remain - to her and all our happiness - as nature created: namely women.

And women are much less "stove beings" than men Accordingly, a ladies club is always something quite different from a men's club and this has -.., Such as women report -. Well as in the Pan-German Society for Metaphysics shown the pronounced individual personality of the woman can fellowship with other women only in a very specific context to and also there only up to a certain degree. A Urimpuls every woman is the rivalry feelings towards other women. loves her mind still want so much to exercise "common sense," said the feeling still remains in the consciousness of rivalry. That is the nature of women, it can be as little as the man off the Imponierbedürfnis. A harmonious blend of many women is therefore simply impossible in the long term. And that was also in the "Vrillerinnen".

Aside from the patent absurdity and self-serving nature of this line of reasoning, it completely ignores the constant vicious backbiting and status gaming men engage in all the while maintaining a solid (storm)front.


edit on 14-11-2013 by Eidolon23 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 14 2013 @ 08:01 AM
reply to post by Eidolon23

I think the Tales of Hoffman breaks the aspects of woman down into form and function, the doll and the bad geometry in the case of Olympia, the soul that has the capacity to reflect spiritual beauty in the case of the soulful singer Antonia that perishes however due to physical frailty, and the scheming courtesan Julietta.

Generally the military man would be most happiest spending his recreational time with the doll, the Vril Damen most reflect the qualities of Antonia in their seeming abilities to reflect and channel greater spiritual truths but unreliable due to their frailty and over attachment leads to tragedy and ruination, this was also the archetype in the Schiller novel.

Their real problem is not the bad geometry but their bad metaphysics, in that they posit Celestial North as indicative of a pure white Masculine polarity and in doing so are Ultima fools.

Hyperborean Apollo

So they have their wires crossed there and also in the fact that the Feminine Metaphysical Polarity is toward the broad based and the Masculine toward singularity, which means as you pointed out they will always spout nonsense in trying to justify their inclinations toward Brotherhood, the reality is they just like to wriggle and squirm together in the dark.

The real question is how pervasive is this esoteric mentality amongst the Military and Intelligence Community, Landig and the post war SS community laid the foundations for a mythos of an elite with access to advanced technology and secret underground facilities, that were in contact with curious bio-mechanical orb entities, a conspiracy of ancient esoteric orders on the global scale, and what truth is there in this...?

Causa Nostra is concerned with the veneer and illusions of allure, in many ways they are indicative of what Kubrick was suggesting in 'Eyes Wide Shut', a cult that is based upon the courtesan Julietta as the whore, manipulation through sexual compromising, a means to an end.

Dottore della Peste

Veiled road to Power

Of course in all this Venus/Venezia is just being used by those who are accustomed to doing so. There is interesting correspondence with a cult of those whose inclinations are toward death and destruction and the narrative of Erra and ishmun, Erra corresponding to the likes of Ninurta and Nergal.

It is the seven vampiric gallu Demons that persuade Erra to undertake a destruction of mankind, and that work in conjunction with him, and of course they hate the activities of the E-anna.

"As for Uruk, the dwelling of Anu and Ishtar, the city of courtesans, harlots, and prostitutes for the cult,
"Whom Ishtar deprived of husbands and reckoned as her own,
"There Sutean nomads, men and women, bandy war whoops!
"They turned out the actors and singers of Eanna

Erra and Ishmun

So i would also expect any modern day cult involving such Demons to have links to self righteous warriors of Doom and Destruction, it's just traditional.

edit on Kam1130317vAmerica/ChicagoThursday1430 by Kantzveldt because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 15 2013 @ 06:25 AM
reply to post by Eidolon23

Horse wank indeed

Add to that attitude a unhealthy smattering of pederasty. The Germans, prior to World War two, practiced pederasty as an integral part of their martial and nobility culture (as did the UK), operating roughly on the same basis as the Romans and the Spartans, if a youth wanted to ascend the ranks, best bend over and take it from his officer. This was not considered to be homosexual, and homosexuality, as in two men sharing a relationship, was considered as unnatural, criminal and sinful, committing sodomy on ones subordinants, though was part and parcel of leadership. To such men, women are vessels for the purposes of breeding, nothing more,not even worthy of engaging in the education and raising of their own children. The two wars kind of changed the balance, the noble and military classes much diminished financially, realised that they had no power to enact change. Change comes from the bottom up. Hence, everything is now focused on keeping those unwashed masses from realising that they hold all the power.

posted on Nov, 15 2013 @ 07:15 AM
I wasn't sure how to broach that, KT, I know it's really easy to come across as homophobic when discussing this aspect of the beast. There is a world of difference between well-balanced individuals expressing their sexuality, or enjoying a loving relationship with another consenting adult-- and you will rarely find a misogynistic gay dude-- and what is being addressed here.

The dynamic of pederasty/subjugation among the men of martial cults has more to do with trauma bonding than sex. Sexual violation, untreated and sublimated, also leads to murderous anger in the one so violated. The applications are immediately apparent.

Kantzveldt, can you get a bead on how many of the Causa Nostra are former or current service members?

edit on 15-11-2013 by Eidolon23 because: ?

posted on Nov, 15 2013 @ 07:49 AM
reply to post by Eidolon23

I don't really know their backgrounds, Ralf Ettl puts together the Causa Nostra site, other related authors are mentioned here.

posted on Nov, 15 2013 @ 08:54 AM
reply to post by Eidolon23

Hi Eidolon23.

As you asked Kant on some background on Ralf Ettl - who is the owner of "Causa Nostra" - which she did provide only in a very scarce way... ...and she could have done better because she reads German and knows them for a long time really...

Here is a link to Wikipedia about Vril that deals with "Norbert Jürgen-Ratthofer / Ralf Ettl und Jan Udo Holey" in that context and mentions CN and it's intentions...

Unfortunately it's in German so you would have to run it through a translator - but since I've seen you going through such toils in other threads I assume that you can do it.
It's well worth the effort because afterwards you might know some more about Kant's intentions as well...

The English Wikipedia version doesn't mention RE so far I could see...

All the best


posted on Nov, 15 2013 @ 09:23 AM
reply to post by Ansar

I don't know them for a long time really or even short time really, i have known of the site and it's contents for some time...but see the difference there?

posted on Nov, 15 2013 @ 10:53 AM
reply to post by Kantzveldt

Oh please Kant - that's ridiculously nit-picking. Isn't it?
And it's not the point - as you know very well.
The point of my reply to Eidolon23 was to provide him with information that you - obviously - withheld.
Bad style - in my book.

You live in Scotland if I remember correctly (the young playfully widowed black-cloaked hottie on the tower somewhere in E (?) on the look-out for the Haunebus - as I (not so jokingly... ) said) and RE lives (supposedly) somewhere here in my neighborhood. So I didn't mean that you 2 have a cup of tea together every other day.

Of course I was talking about you knowing RE's website silly...

You and I exchanged a lot of U2Us and private e-mails as well (all of them stored by the way - so nothing got lost due to ATS cosmetic changes
) - so when I come across one of your posts I say to myself...
"Oh - Kant again. Gee - I know her!"

This is - obviously - meant in a casual way. I never would dare to claim that I know you PERSONALLY.
I thought as the bright young lady that you - obviously - are that you did get that I meant "knowing" as a kind of "paraphrase"... - so silly me too.

I overestimated you - again. My bad. Apologies.

So yes - I see - and it wasn't so hard. Really.


posted on Nov, 15 2013 @ 11:47 AM
With-holding wikipedia pages is a serious crime no...?

edit on 15-11-2013 by Madrusa because: (no reason given)

edit on 15-11-2013 by Madrusa because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 15 2013 @ 02:34 PM


The point of my reply to Eidolon23 was to provide him


with information that you - obviously - withheld.

Yeah, cause I certainly hadn't already checked the wiki.

Of course I was talking about you knowing RE's website silly...

Yeah, someone's getting his silly ass exposed, and it ain't the ladies here.

Thanks for the worthless links I'd already clocked, as well as the thinly veiled catty attempt at fomenting division.

Oh, as for translation being troublesome? There's a little thing called Chrome.

edit on 15-11-2013 by Eidolon23 because: *fecksake*

posted on Nov, 15 2013 @ 02:42 PM
reply to post by Eidolon23

You're well-come Lady!


posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 03:30 PM

I wasn't sure how to broach that, KT, I know it's really easy to come across as homophobic when discussing this aspect of the beast. There is a world of difference between well-balanced individuals expressing their sexuality, or enjoying a loving relationship with another consenting adult-- and you will rarely find a misogynistic gay dude-- and what is being addressed here.

The dynamic of pederasty/subjugation among the men of martial cults has more to do with trauma bonding than sex. Sexual violation, untreated and sublimated, also leads to murderous anger in the one so violated. The applications are immediately apparent.

I'm not so sure, and while I don't advocate it, in any shape or form, it much depends upon the way it is initiated and indoctrinated. I have read varying accounts, and while often it is abusive, it also seems to facilitate deep bonds of loyalty and fealty though not usually between the person sodomising and the person being sodomised, which as you say, is a subjugation dynamic. The victims, consenting or otherwise, tend to form very deep bonds with each other, and may engage in more intimate, loving relationships with each other as a result of the shared victimisation. Again, I reiterate, I am not saying that it is a good thing, but it is a complex dynamic, and I do not think that 'murderous anger' is necessarily the consequence, I think that rather, given the cases of institutionalised pederasty, that it is lacks the social stigma and isolationism that leads to some of the more sadistic pathologies arising in the victims, if anything the practice seems to increase a sense of brotherhood, though admittedly, on a 'them and us' basis. It does though become learnt behaviour, and once those individuals achieve hierarchial status, they will most likely do unto others as was done unto them. Sadism, if apparent, will depend not only on their own experience of the practice, but also on character, and early years nurturing. A sadist will brutalise, but to presume sadism is misunderstanding the phenomenon and it's widespread acceptance in certain quarters. And again, I have to say, it is either way abhorrent, and both a violation and a dereliction of duty on the part of those in responsibility.

Kantzveldt, can you get a bead on how many of the Causa Nostra are former or current service members?

I read through this website yesterday...

I have to say, I haven't laughed so much in a long while...but I don't think that pederasty is the issue here...or military types either. There is more of an air of hebephilia if anything, a large proportion of it seems to be aimed at pubescent and teen girls...and is very, very silly. Either way, it relies on gross ignorance on numerous levels, but particularly, on military history, I can't see actual military personnel being remotely interested, perhaps your gun and knife nuts, typical old school skin head, white elitist types.

posted on Nov, 16 2013 @ 11:18 PM
Agreed, in its least pathological form, it looks like this:

But in this case, the lovers were paired equals enjoying a full relationship with one another. It made them virtually unstoppable on the field.

posted on Nov, 17 2013 @ 05:21 AM
I think in terms of the bigger picture that Reinhard Gehlan would have played the leading role, already In 1945 he was acting with the Americans against Communists in the OSS.

Following the end of World War II, the NSDAP went far underground for five years. In 1950, the international national Socialist movement re-emerged with the reformation of the Thule-Vril-Gesellschaft (Thule-Vril Society). This society was founded in Vienna by German SS veteran Wilhelm Landig under the authority of Reinhard Gehlen, former Major General of the German Wehrmacht and head of military intelligence.

Reinhard Gehlen (3 April 1902 – 8 June 1979) was a Major General in the German Wehrmacht during World War II. Starting in 1942 he served as chief of Fremde Heere Ost (FHO), the German Army's military intelligence unit on the Eastern Front. During the emerging phases of the Cold War, he was recruited by the United States military to set up a spy ring directed against the Soviet Union (known as the Gehlen Organization) which employed numerous former SS, SD and Wehrmacht officers and eventually became head of the West German intelligence apparatus. He served as the first president of the Federal Intelligence Service until 1968. Gehlen is considered one of the most legendary Cold War spymasters

On 20 September 1945, Gehlen and three close associates were flown to the United States to begin work for them. While there, Gehlen exposed a number of Office of Strategic Services (OSS) officers who were secret members of the US Communist Party.

In July 1946 Gehlen was officially released from American captivity and flown back to Germany,[12] where he began his intelligence work on 6 December 1946 by setting up an organization of former German intelligence officers, first at Oberursel near Frankfurt, then at Pullach near Munich,[2] called the "South German Industrial Development Organization" to mask its true nature as an undercover operation and spy ring. Gehlen handpicked 350 former German intelligence agents to join him, a number that eventually grew to 4,000 undercover agents. This group was soon to be given the nickname the "Gehlen Organization" or simply "the Org

Reinhard Gehlan

Landig as subordinate of Gehlan

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