Question: Mixing Hollow Points with Full Metal Jackets?

reply to post by Domo1

Much of what you said here is how I feel. Within the first few shots I get off...Ive either hit the intended target, have them runnin'...or Im diving for cover myself because NONE of my rounds hit, and now Im in some kind of fire-fight-for-my-life.

And the fact I now have gone from 6 rounds in a 357 to a 17 round clip in a 9mm...I just dont think...although it could happen....that in basic defense, I'd need that many after the first 6-10 rounds. Thats a lot for me.

Ive been used to counting on the 6-150 gr HPS in my 357 for 10 yrs...so the 17 now...and the extra clips... seems like a lot.

Thanks

reply to post by JohnnySasaki

Well said. I think Im getting the idea here. I had never thought nor heard much about this till I started spending time at the range.
(I got unlimited range time...everyday as long as I can afford the target rounds...for 2 more months until Jan 1st).

I want to go into 2014 a lot smarter...and still alive...over this issue. You make things very clear here. Its appreciated.

reply to post by hounddoghowlie

I also have a Mossberg with a pistol grip for home defense. This thread here is more about me (and others) carrying concealed/w permit everywhere.

reply to post by mysterioustranger


If your looking for self defense i suggest what i use a Glock 35 with soft point ammo.Your ready for any situation you can run across. 40 S&W RBCD Performance Plus Tactical Personal Defense its a 70gr round.The advantages is its designed for reduced recoil, reduced ricochet, controlled limited penetration, maximum energy transfer, and superior accuracy.And with a very high muzzle velocity you wouldnt believe how accurate they are until you take it to a range.

I should have prefaced this earlier...but I live in the Metro DETROIT area. There have been killings , robberies, car jackings, all around my "safe" suburbian home...within blocks...every day and night.

10 shot in an illegal back room gambling shop, 3 in a house, 2 from a van shoot 2 walking down the street, 2 last night...and on the National News....a young girl's car broke down and as she went to a door just to ask for HELP...the home owner freaked and shot her in the head... dead.

So, if anyone had the idea Im some sort of RAMBO....Im just a concerned citizen whose wife was also robbed at gunpoint by 2 men...in our driveway...porchlight on and people out in the street...and in a very nice and normally -statisically "safe" western suburb.

As well, Im also an EMT/ERT 1st Responder-Advanced Life Support volunteering with Police, Fire and ER Management. Im licensed, trained and training in correct and safe use of weapons for self defense.

Thank you all for the opinions here. Im learning a lot.

reply to post by mysterioustranger


Well for the wife id recommend something like the Ruger SP 101 smaller and can be carried in a purse. All ways go with a revolver if its not going to be carried as a side arm its safer. Id recommend either the 38 or 22 long depending on what she would be comfortable with. Both will be close to the same at close range so depends on if shes scared of using a gun. If shes lets say reluctant go with the 22 long. If you take her to a range and 28 is ok go with that.

reply to post by mysterioustranger


I can see some use for mixing up rounds while training.
For revolvers we would leave cylinders empty to watch for flinching, and about the same can be done with a pistol.
Use target loads and combat rounds mixed up and watch for flinches.
But for every day carry,... If you have to really penetrate anything, you might consider carrying a rifle.
Or just leave the situation.
Don't overthink too much, K.I.S.S.

g146541
reply to post by mysterioustranger

 

I can see some use for mixing up rounds while training.
For revolvers we would leave cylinders empty to watch for flinching, and about the same can be done with a pistol.
Use target loads and combat rounds mixed up and watch for flinches.
But for every day carry,... If you have to really penetrate anything, you might consider carrying a rifle.
Or just leave the situation.
Don't overthink too much, K.I.S.S.

When first my wife was learning i did leave empty chambers.I was trying to get her to stop trying to jerk before the round was fired. Your right it taught her to just squeeze the trigger instead of jerk it. after awhile it she stopped trying to guess if it was going to fire.

reply to post by dragonridr

Thank you for the advice. I sure cant see her with something like that little 5 shot 22 MAGNUM that fits in the palm of your hand!

Thanks everyone for all the info. I think for me? Im just gonna leave the HP's in. But, I can now see the benefit of carrying a different round in a spare mag too, and the possibility of alternating...and in practicing with what I'd use in a real situation.

winofiend
reply to post by H1ght3chHippie

 

So this is a self defence scenario.. and you're shooting through things to kill someone.

How many of you guys have actually killed people?

THis is just god damned scary....

Smallarms are designed to effectively neutralize soft targets.

In laymans terms, guns are designed to effectively kill human beings.

That's what they're for.

I'm late to input in this thread, but having my veteran status, I'm able to load my M&P .40 Compact with these: Hornady Critical Defense. They are, from what I was told, spec'd for the FBI's standards and, as you can see in the link, are able to travel through heavy clothing, wallboard, glass, plywood, etc. and still have decent or perfect expansion and penetration into ballistics gel. But, not all hollow-point rounds are designed this way, so it's a good idea to research your ammo before just settling on the cheapest. I'm able to get a box of 50 for $25, so a $0.50 round works for me with test data like that.

But I also subscribe to the old adage that says it's not about the ammo as much as it is about shot placement. Practice, practice, practice.

www.afn.org... this is the only incident where i heard of staggared loads being used in a self defense scenario,it also breaks the mold of being one of the only cases where "warning shots"(read suppressive fire) was used to stop multiple robbers with out charges being pressed against the gun store owner (he was using a class 3 smg too) but this man is by far the exception rather then the rule if that makes sense

He swept it from one end to the other, reloaded, and continued. Every window in the Oldsmobile disintegrated as the copper jacketed bullets tore through. Beckwith had stagger- loaded the magazines with hardball and Remington 115 gr. jacketed hollowpoints. The tires deflated with an audible hiss. Beckwith saw the surviving perps moving away from the vehicle. Now the big danger was being shot instead of being run down. A second empty S&W magazine hit the ground, and Beckwith opened another burst of diversionary fire with a third stick. The perpetrators had enough. He saw them run around the corner of the building. He took a cover position and waited. The first police car pulled into the scene approximately one minute later. To Beckwith, it seemed as if he waited an hour. However, reconstruction of the incident would show that it had been only three minutes from when the alarm sounded to when the first responding Alachua County deputy made it into the gunshop. The incident itself had lasted less than two minutes. During that time, Harry Beckwith had fired 105 shots.

so i guess it could have its uses but more for scenarios that we as citizens are not likely to encounter

but seems the general concencious is its not worth it unless your spray and praying.......

rugerpistolforums.com...
forums.1911forum.com...
www.defensivecarry.com...
www.survivalistboards.com...

reply to post by stirling


when I was pheasant hunting,I'd use a 6 or 7 in the chamber,followed by a 6,4 and a 2...as the bird flew off,I'd get more range.If a quail flew up,I'd get it with the 6-7.I was shooting a semi auto,so I'd need to reconfigure it every shot

JohnnySasaki


This is wrong. Even with small caliber pistol rounds (and yes, even hollow points), the bullet is going to pass through just about anything, including whatever's behind it. In the movies, everything seems to stop bullets. I've seen, on quite a few occasions, people spraying bullets into a couch and have the person hiding behind it come out unscathed. That's a joke. You're going to need quite a bit of dense material in between you and the bullet if you have any hope of stopping it. A wall is not enough. Neither is a car, unless the engine is between you and the bullet, and even then it only takes a medium power rifle to punch through the engine block.

Small caliber pistol rounds WILL NOT "pass through just about anything". I have had FMJ 9mm rounds not even go all the way though a refrigerator door (thin sheet metal with 1/2" insulation and a plastic inside layer. I have seen 9mm. FMJ AND HP's not come close to going through a car door and ending up inside the door rattling around and what "
"medium power" rifle will punch an engine block...??? A .50 BMG? Show me ANY normal hunting rifle that will go clean through an engine block...in one side and out the other...

So, if you don't know what you're talking about, please don't pretend like you do online and try and give people advice. They're liable to take it. This is how you end up with so many ignorant people. It's one thing about anything else, but on the subject of gun handling, and self defense scenarios, please leave it to people who know what they're talking about. Just about everyone in this thread seems to have an opinion on the subject, and just about every post I've read is wrong in some form or another.

This whole paragraph is spot on and especially the last line which is correct also....including your post.

mwood

JohnnySasaki


This is wrong. Even with small caliber pistol rounds (and yes, even hollow points), the bullet is going to pass through just about anything, including whatever's behind it. In the movies, everything seems to stop bullets. I've seen, on quite a few occasions, people spraying bullets into a couch and have the person hiding behind it come out unscathed. That's a joke. You're going to need quite a bit of dense material in between you and the bullet if you have any hope of stopping it. A wall is not enough. Neither is a car, unless the engine is between you and the bullet, and even then it only takes a medium power rifle to punch through the engine block.

Small caliber pistol rounds WILL NOT "pass through just about anything". I have had FMJ 9mm rounds not even go all the way though a refrigerator door (thin sheet metal with 1/2" insulation and a plastic inside layer. I have seen 9mm. FMJ AND HP's not come close to going through a car door and ending up inside the door rattling around and what "
"medium power" rifle will punch an engine block...??? A .50 BMG? Show me ANY normal hunting rifle that will go clean through an engine block...in one side and out the other...

A .445 super mag, which is a handgun round, will go through a engine chevy block. Depending on the engine, you might even find success with a m855 green tip (5.56) going through, which is pretty small caliber.

That must have been a really old refrigerator, with quite a thick metal door, to stop a 9mm. 9mm isn't exactly a large round, but still.

Here's a 9mm penetration test video:



And here's what will go through an engine block. Notice he didn't try anything over 7.62x39.



I'd be willing to bet a .338 would go clean out the other side. Like he said though, it all depends on where you hit it and what kind of engine you have.

Keep in mind, that's an old ass heavy duty engine. You start talking about some puny modern engine, maybe throw in some aluminum instead of iron and steel, it's curtains.