Creativity-Imagination Potential and Alien Abduction

Hi,

I've never been very interested in UFO type things really.. and for a
lot of my life I rolled my eyes when alien abductions were the subject,
because it seemed that "hypnotic regression" was usually involved to
recover lost memories, and that made me very dubious as to the
veracity of the whole thing.

Now I'm still not particularly interested in this subject, but I have
been piecing together some observations about human psychology
as related to so-called 'spiritual experience' and have come across
a possible correspondence that I had not expected, with UFO
abductions.

Now this info is probably not available.. but I'd be very interested
to know the general level of creativity and open-mindedness of
the people who say that they are abducted.

I'm thinking, that if this abduction things is real, that most if not
all of the people abducted would be unusually creative and
open-minded themselves, or at least members of families
who are known for these qualities.

If this is the case, then I suspect that I know why the abductions
are occurring.. at least in the ballpark.

Now rather than just leaving it there, I'll flat out say something;

there is one and one only 'mystical process' (biological process
affecting the mind) which inevitably leads to an 'insane' blossoming
of the creative-imaginative function. If this process can be sustained
long enough (and the process itself 'becomes alive' and forces the
process to continue, even if the host body is at risk of death),
then there is a 'harvesting' of a sort.

Now historically, people have been so human-o-centric, they've
assumed the process is something which it is not. They've
assumed that the process led to 'enlightenment' and 'genius'
and in a manner of speaking it does... but the process benefits
something not human (in a manner of speaking) a lot... and
the 'mystic' some, but generally leaves a terrible mess behind.
It's almost like the 'mystic' has been harvested and discarded,
once their role in the function has been finished. Now, most
people never finish the process.. and so they stay in this
heightened state of imagination and just babble garbage
the rest of their lives.. it takes real commitment and some
very obscure knowledge to finish the process.

Now the process doesn't have to be only like that... it is possible
to take lemons and make lemon aid.. and that is in fact very
rewarding. I'm also not saying that this is the entirety of
mysticism --- it's not.. but it's probably the most famous
thing in mysticism of all time.

But what I'm saying, is that if the same thing that happens
in high-level mysticism (the harvesting of raw creativity)
happens in UFO abductions.. then there would be a strong
correlation that what is in fact desired by other parties
is in fact the cultivation and harvesting of the creative-
imaginative function of the mind and quite possibly the
DNA which supports that kind of brain function in the
case of abductees.

That would be an interesting correlation if the data
were available to analyze it.

Now, should such be the case, and I'm not saying
that it is.. this is a new idea for me.. then it might
lend itself to a wild theory, that in the future
humans have so bio-engineered themselves into
rational beings, that they've lost their creative
and imaginative capabilities and might want it
back. An alternative would be actual aliens
who wish to gain raw creativity and imagination
because they too went for the 'easy power'
(a machine singularity option.. which is
actually a dead-end I'd say for many species)

Now this sounds like a poor Hollywood movie
plot to me.. and although I've been saying that
humans are in fact 'food' of a sort, and cargo
cult worshippers for a lot of years now.. the
exact details behind those observations
have not been firm in my mind..

as a matter of fact, by letting things mull,
and not just jump to wild conclusions..
(wait for years to jump to wild conclusions)
I've found the quality of thought is improved.

I'm just beginning to push these 'shaman
powers' into actual direct examination of
things in the physical world.. so this is
new for me.

Pardon my craziness. Thought it might be
worth discussing.. even though I don't
necessarily even believe in alien
abductions at this time.

KPB

Creative folk do seem often to be a little closer to the veil. Some interesting thoughts there, K. Even if it's not a whole theory, it does have aspects worth thinking about.

I'll S&F, but you're prolly about to get ate up haha!

I've pondered the idea that depression can often lead to an increase in creativity. As an extension to your idea, I wonder what percentage of alleged abductees were in a depression during the time of their purported abductions?

I too wish there were more data surrounding this phenomenon in regards to psychology. Maybe you can find some of your answers if you investigate the phenomenon personally, as in find and interview abductees etc. on your own.

Happy hunting... keep us updated if you come across any information to support or disprove this idea.

unb3k44n7
I've pondered the idea that depression can often lead to an increase in creativity. As an extension to your idea, I wonder what percentage of alleged abductees were in a depression during the time of their purported abductions?

I too wish there were more data surrounding this phenomenon in regards to psychology. Maybe you can find some of your answers if you investigate the phenomenon personally, as in find and interview abductees etc. on your own.

Happy hunting... keep us updated if you come across any information to support or disprove this idea.

Actually I use the shaman's trick (the point of intention) to
gather information and a little searching on the Internet
for the fun of it.

I'm a hermit you know..

But thanks..

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

Well, the abduction thing admittedly requires a great deal of stretch. Why would an intelligent civilization send a probe on a light years' mission to collect some aspect of human biology? I wouldn't say it hasn't happened, when taking into account what we humans would do if we developed a similar capability. I have to draw a line with aliens mashing down crops of food in circular formations. Difficult waters to navigate, though I come up short of 'disbelieving' people who are convinced they've seen a UFO. There are stranger things.

I think this bag of lemons I've been caring around with me has become a heavy burden. I need to go back and re-digest your OP several times.

S&F for your contribution.

reply to post by Snarl


I didn't say space aliens.. these would be dimensional or time travelers
in all likelihood.

The problem with a big rational brain or a machine / mind hybrid,
is that you lose the crazy raw imagination of a young species like
ours. The more intelligent you become, the more you lose the nature
of the child.

You'd have had to undergone the internal alchemy, to know just how
precious it is...and just how unsettling. That's why there is often so
little point in divulging this sort of information. It's like trying to
describe fire to someone who has never seen fire.

Also, FYI, I've personally corresponded with dozens of people over
the years, who are in the insanity phase of the harvesting
of imagination of the internal alchemy that is often called
"Kundalini"; one of the most misunderstood things in the world.

But if humans are actually being harvested, and in fact have been
harvested presumably for thousands of years.. why then I'd be an
asshole, not to divulge the possibility, and why it might be
happening.

KPB

reply to post by The GUT


Hiyas. Morning.

I feel like a ran a marathon while I was asleep.. that happens
to me a lot.. I seem to communicate more when asleep than
when awake.. and process..

Now as a said in another response to this thread, the biological
process I'm mentioning is "Kundalini". In short, Kundalini is when
a portion of something from Earth (which some people call
'soul' is made to become very luminous (and usually insane
with religious fervor) for most of the process, is joined
together with something from the sky (atman, spirit,
higher self). In a nut shell that is the mythology and the
reality of it both (yes it's a real process as it's biological
in nature, so it's actually real).

The 'religious fervor' is certainly something I experienced
for years too.. in fact it's very unfortunate, but a lot of
people undergoing this process think that they are Jesus
or some other historical God figure. I've spoken to
dozens of self-appointed Jesus'es, a few Buddhas,
a few 'Devils', etc. I'm in email contact with 3 Jesuses
right now.. it's very hard to talk people down while
they are in this stage.

Now, I've always wondered if the process HAS to go
this way, or simply just often DOES goes this way
due to ignorance of the process. I'm saying that
it's the second --- it only happens that way
due to ignorance.

But what if this (and now I'm going to sound
like an AA person here) the process was
handed down originally by 'folks' who didn't
want it to be done 'right'.. but WANTED all
that religious mania (and max creativity,
imagination and a certain mind state) to
happen.. and didn't care about the person
involved?

Or perhaps the process was supposed to be
helpful.. to 'heal' those 'broken souls',
but the art of the knowledge became
corrupted and lost. That could certainly
be true as well. But in this case, what
if all that ---- let's call it 'white flame'
being generated --- sent up a signal
flare to hungry ET's (probably DT's)?

Now I don't know if you saw it, but I'm
going to reference "black flame" here..
M.A did in fact interact with me a little
on his great pyramid thread. He mentioned
how Set worshippers want to extract
'black flame' to turn people into little
mini gods. (I'll have to go back and
find his exact words).

Now what's interesting about that,
is I understood precisely what he
was talking about.. on an unconscious
level... I guess it never dawned on me,
that what happens during the advanced
stages of a Kundalini awakening, might
be characterized in a very similar way..

but as a "white" (or in most cases its
seens as a "silver") flame.. but for
purposes of simplistic goodish/vs
evilish metaphor, lets continue to
call it 'white flame'.

This got me to thinking further..
now 'religious fervor' is hardly restricted
to advanced stages of a Kundalini
awakening. It's probably the most
concentrated form of it though..
as the little broken entity ('the soul')
'powers up' and then 'goes home'.

But religious fervor is in fact, almost
'artifically' being forced upon the human
race.. billions of people in a religious
fervor from a slight to an advanced
form.

Makes one wonder.. if the entire reason
for the course of human history.... the
grand 'conspiracy of them all' (actually
this is a further development of something
I posted in the ATS folder) .. is that
humans are being forced to be all 'revved up'
with 'religious ferver and spiritual ecstasy'
because that produces either "black flame"
or "white flame".

Perhaps a great number of humans are being
harvested.. in the billions...

You now that ET and conspiracy mania is
also another form of this same thing,
at least for some.

I think this is worth discussing.

KPB

But what I'm saying, is that if the same thing that happens
in high-level mysticism (the harvesting of raw creativity)
happens in UFO abductions.. then there would be a strong
correlation that what is in fact desired by other parties
is in fact the cultivation and harvesting of the creative-
imaginative function of the mind and quite possibly the
DNA which supports that kind of brain function in the
case of abductees.

That would be an interesting correlation if the data
were available to analyze it.

That's an interesting theory, but I wouldn't say all highly evolved creative and imaginative people are abductees.

Kundalini meditation should be entered with baby steps and, in my experiences, the creative and imaginative self should be kept in check at all times.

I have noticed, however, that when people (retirees for example) are freed from their physical burdens and obligations, such as working for their daily bread, they seem to return to their long-lost creative and imaginative side by joining groups (such as art groups) where this previously subdued natural human trait can be unleashed and explored.

reply to post by InTheLight


Oh I didn't say that either.
The harvesting could be happening 24x7x365.
I've seen people be harvested at the nape of the neck and of course out the top of the head. Or the major harvesting could be at the moment of death. I've yet to be present at a human passing so I dont know for sure.

The possible abduction angle would be in rare cases only to get a dna sample.

There are people who say that kundalini is the mechanism responsible for human consciousness. So this likely goes a bit deeper than some retirees experiencing a tingle.

I know how scary this sounds. This is why I've repeatedly said that people might not want to know their place in the universe. But a lot of people have been nagging me anyway.

Needless to say this is just a small part of the big picture and most of it is wonferful and not scary.

Thanks for your reply.

I don’t consider myself a skeptic and most of my posts re: aliens allude to that. However, there is a fuzzy line between what appears to be authentic high-craziness and manufactured high-craziness and differentiating the difference has been most difficult.

Do I believe sentient ‘entities’ exist not considered human? Yes
Do I believe they have a need/want to abduct us and play with our ‘stuff’? Not too sure to be honest.

When I look back at stories of military experiments that drive people insane whether through mind control, drugs, intimidation, etc, etc, or a combination of such I see an eerily similar parallel to those who are mentally ruined by these events. Granted, not all of them go bat # crazy but many who delve into tend to do so.

Sometimes I think there isn’t a difference between angels and aliens and with that thought; sure, I can see nasty angels/aliens wanting to mislead me or thinking it’s cool to mess with my ‘junk’. That said, if there was a group of people who have a track record for this cruel behavior, it would be our governments.

It should also be notes that per ancient text, we have been visited and continue to this day. If so, then I wouldn’t be ubberly surprised people are being abducted as we do it to animals ourselves to track mating and migration patterns. They could be analyzing our development similarly but the government could be doing that also.

reply to post by Rosinitiate


Like anyone there are things that I'd prefer to be true. For example a world with unicorns would be spiffy; unfortunately they don't exist "here".

In a similar manner, the whole "soul business" turned out to be very different than I could have imagined or desired. I think that "souls" could better be described by something more akin to quantum electrodynamics than anything "mystical". Also the intersecting lifecycles intersecting with the human nervous system (in ALL humans) threw me for a loop.

Back when I was a little boy, I wanted the colorful stories about ancient mystical masters znd the noble goal of enlightenment to be true and attainable. Unfortunately that stuff isn't actually true.

Humans and lets call them "supersymmetric partners of the 96%" are in a complex dance with each other; and we are both the junior partner at first and a more senior partner later on if we happen to grow into it.

All that pseudoscience left behind we are in fact our brother's keeper on many levels; even the keepers of these little shattered lives that want to be whole again...the little lives that got swept up into our universe and which seek compatible nervous systems to sync up with to learn from..to learn how to go home again..that's why they need that mad thinker module that is built by kundalini. They are little lost souls so to speak -- just not our souls..and almost everyone identifies with them.. but they are not "us". Our true nature is elsewhere.

Of interesting note is that the cocoon material these little babies use is the so-called white flame that is so highly coveted as "food" by others.

Ida never thunk it.

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

Hi. You had a few posts in here so far so I gathered them together to respond. As you had quite a bit and most is esoteric -- which requires more response than a few words sometimes -- I'll have to do this in multiple posts.

for a lot of my life I rolled my eyes when alien abductions were the subject, because it seemed that "hypnotic regression" was usually involved to recover lost memories, and that made me very dubious as to the veracity of the whole thing.

Yes, me too, so the experience is probably some karmic punishment for ego. Just kidding. Mostly. ATS had a substantial thread on that topic not long ago here, in case you're interested: www.abovetopsecret.com...

I'd be very interested to know the general level of creativity and open-mindedness of the people who say that they are abducted.

This would be difficult to quantify. Actually this is difficult to quantify in anybody. I did not have that kind of experience until I became open minded, which merely contributed to a current psychology I would have had great fun mocking in the past. Of course, my current psychology thinks my past psychology is humorously limited and childishly simplistic. But it would be difficult to know if the experiences helped force-open my mind or if my mind's opening 'allowed' them -- or helped create them (either imaginatively or quite-literally, in an esoteric but legit fashion, I mean).

I'm thinking, that if this abduction things is real, that most if not all of the people abducted would be unusually creative and open-minded themselves, or at least members of families who are known for these qualities.

Well, but you are leaving out the rather gigantic confounding factor which is that there is a difference between having an experience and remembering an experience (or believing that you are having or are remembering an experience). Assuming on the esoteric side of abduction for a minute (e.g. dimensional/frequency-tech as opposed to space-aliens/nuts&bolts), I think there's generally three kinds of claimed 'abductees' (for lack of a better term): those who say they consciously recall it (not so common); those who say they remembered it but later (sometimes decades later); and those who say they only remembered clues/pieces/mysteries and on that prompting, only remembered the actual event under hypnosis. The latter two categories imply that memory is a fairly significant element in the equation.

As a result, I don't think one can assume any kind of cause/effect or statistics based on the assumption that the people having the experiences are those reporting them, oddly; because lots of people may have them but not recall them; and lots of people may recall them, for reasons that are certainly imaginative or psychological but may not be as literal as we'd hope in such reporting.

there is one and one only 'mystical process' (biological process affecting the mind) which inevitably leads to an 'insane' blossoming of the creative-imaginative function.

Given your later comments I assume you are referring here to kundalini. I think our culture has a great deal of over-simplification about this, but I would agree it does tend to be a powerful effect. All the chakras can have substantial effects, but kundalini does tend to have a more noticeable result since it is generally sparking one or more chakras at the same time (and with intensity).

Sadly, our culture's people tend to be singularly un-ready for this kind of experience, with rare exceptions, so it tends to be a psycho-spiritual train wreck rather than managed individuation (to use a more jungian term).

If this process can be sustained long enough (and the process itself 'becomes alive' and forces the process to continue, even if the host body is at risk of death), then there is a 'harvesting' of a sort.

You just lost me.

1. Harvesting? What are you talking about here? (It does become clearer later, I notice)

2. I don't tend to think the process is entirely involuntary, although it may be consciously involuntary (and oblivious). Then again if we're going to assume on the existence of a higher-self that this kundalini is part of, then one kind of has to expand the territory for what is self-created (not accident) even if it's not consciously done.

Now historically, people have been so human-o-centric, they've assumed the process is something which it is not.

Well it's all 'assumptions' at this point I believe. :-) I get quite a bit 'internally' as info but I expect that's unique to every individual.

They've assumed that the process led to 'enlightenment' and 'genius' and in a manner of speaking it does... but the process benefits something not human (in a manner of speaking) a lot...

I'm ambivalent here. The process of en-light-en-ment benefits pretty much everything involved. Humans are one part of a larger spectrum. I refer to the human body as being like the red band of a rainbow. There are other (and larger) parts of a larger-self that live 'through' us (if they are aware of us and we become part of their larger-identity). The entirety benefits from better integration and increasing-clarity-and-luminosity of any of us.

So, any parts of us that are technically "outside the bounding box of our body/personality" might benefit, the degree varies, but I don't see that as any kind of vampirific/parasitical/bad thing. That may exist... but it's something different.

the 'mystic' some, but generally leaves a terrible mess behind.

I suspect it mostly leaves a mess behind if the mess it encountered going in was not able to be cleaned up or let go, and the person holding all that stuff couldn't get decently aligned with its highway of progress, you might say.

The kundalini is like Saturn-the-archetype in some respects, like True Will coming through with momentum, and you either leap on and ride it and let go of everything in the way of that momentum willingly, or you stand in front of it with all that stuff in your arms defensively, and it plows right through your reality (saturn) or your body (kundalini) like a train.

There is usually some mess involved, but that comes with personal growth in any category, not just kundalini.

The individual's energetic environment changes, when kundalini kicks in. They adapt and survive, or not, to varying degrees. I don't feel that makes it a bad thing necessarily. If you look at it from the perspective of say, the planet as an identity, humans may be like biological cells, and maybe a degree of damaged-then-mopped-up-and-discarded is a practical matter. From the perspective of the individual, it is always our choice. We can step up to the integrity required, or not.

...continued...

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

It's almost like the 'mystic' has been harvested and discarded, once their role in the function has been finished. Now, most people never finish the process.. and so they stay in this heightened state of imagination and just babble garbage the rest of their lives..

Some people may lack the integrity to work toward the clarity -- because it IS work -- necessary to interact with the energy properly. It is an opportunity. Not everyone is interested in stepping up to that. They are responsible for themselves.

And even for those who are, it often takes a long time of working through the mess-inside that is in the way in order to get clear and get through it.

it takes real commitment and some very obscure knowledge to finish the process.

The knowledge is provided internally when the commitment is present.

if the same thing that happens in high-level mysticism (the harvesting of raw creativity)

So are you saying that the larger-identity (of which the human is part), is feeding-like-a-parasite off the creative (there are many other kinds of) energy, as amplified by kundalini? Sucking your energy like it's blood...

...so you're lost, insane, useless, a mess, while it just keeps feeding off you?

If this is what you mean, I don't think this is correct.

I do believe there are many identities (from minuscule to huge) which will happily feed from human energy like a buffet, and kundalini tends to light us up like walking smorgasboard neon beacons to a lot of other types of identities. Many people have more 'attachments' than my dremel tool (heh), and may very well be having an experience just like you describe. However that would not be what is happening as a result of the larger-self. There is a difference between feeding oneself to parasites through inattention and unfocus, and becoming a more proactive part of a larger energy system.

This is an example of where the integrity comes in: the focus, discipline and dedication to the interior guidance and protection (and learning to take on your own protection) is what prevents/clears this experience.

then there would be a strong correlation that what is in fact desired by other parties is in fact the cultivation and harvesting of the creative- imaginative function of the mind

Merely increasing the chakraic energy in anybody in the right areas will greatly increase these functions in them. Even seemingly uncreative or unsmart people will be creative or smart when their chakraic and physical body support it.

If you are asking, do non-human entities (embodied or not) feed-off the energetic-output of humans? Likely, as we are energy which is the currency of all, but not the ones most call aliens. There are entities we call other things, or that are kind of on the border of our definition. I observe that most of the identity-groups our people refer to as aliens are those which overlap with some degree of our biologically-manifest spectrum. I'm not trying to be complex there, just precise, as this is a pretty woo topic which makes it hard enough to find proper words for already.

By that I mean, the interaction of us with most the species we call aliens appears to overlap the physical. When it doesn't, our people usually refer to them as 'entities' not 'aliens.' The overlapping-physical may not reside in the same physics beat-pattern as we do (so to speak) but when at least part of either of us is present with the other, we perceive them as physical because for us at that moment, they are.

and quite possibly the DNA which supports that kind of brain function in the case of abductees.

That they pursue DNA seems suggestively-evident from widespread reports and experience, but I think there's an incredibly long list of possible reasons probably in line before this one.

lend itself to a wild theory, that in the future humans have so bio-engineered themselves into rational beings, that they've lost their creative and imaginative capabilities and might want it back.

I think it's a pretty common theory that future-humans did something genetically and want to regress to us.

It is also possible that if this were so, they are not trying to regress to us, but to put together the pieces of a puzzle from many many millennia before us, the puzzle being DNA of a more complete/evolved species, which even we aren't anywhere near being.

An alternative would be actual aliens who wish to gain raw creativity and imagination because they too went for the 'easy power'

If they were capable of breeding it out of themselves, they'd probably be capable of breeding it into themselves. It would make an interesting fiction novel though, you should write one. :-)

although I've been saying that humans are in fact 'food' of a sort

I expect everything is food of a sort, in many ways. Humans, from inside and outside quite biologically, never mind in terms of chakra-energy.

The problem with a big rational brain or a machine / mind hybrid, is that you lose the crazy raw imagination of a young species like ours. The more intelligent you become, the more you lose the nature of the child.

I don't agree, although I know what you mean. But many of the most brilliant rational minds in our history have in fact been the most creative as well. Rationalism and creativity are not opposed at all. We ignore that because in our culture we have developed in a way that makes us think of these traits as opposites.

I suspect this is merely a side-effect of a culture-wide common rather poor development chakraically, for which there are many reasons, but the simplest thing as an analogy is just to look at our people as if we'd look at a country suffering chronic malnutrition. (Which we are, actually, and that contributes to this issue too, but is a wholly separate subject. :-))

We tend to develop in one or sometimes two chakras, and not much the rest, and sometimes especially poorly in another one or two, leading people to an energetic output that seems very much like one thing or the other. Like they're an engineer, OR they're a musician; or they're a physicist OR they're a metaphysicist; proper development of the chakraic system would make them fluent in all areas, not just one or two. Amplify the throat chakra and whether you get brilliant architecture (solar plexus chakra) or paintings (forehead chakra) or humanitarian leadership (heart chakra) or esoteric-intellectual insight (crown chakra) relates, like the examples, to the overall development of the person, not just to the throat.

As a separate note, I think we are not necessarily a young species, so much as ignorant about our history, and likely to have changed along the way. But who knows...

You'd have had to undergone the internal alchemy, to know just how precious it is...and just how unsettling.

"Unsettling" may be the most understated word of the century for this LOL!


...continued...

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

I've personally corresponded with dozens of people over the years, who are in the insanity phase of the harvesting of imagination of the internal alchemy that is often called "Kundalini"; one of the most misunderstood things in the world.

Insanity comes in degrees, from very mildly off-base to completely. The complete stuff is obvious. The only-mildly off-track is subtle and insidious. Assumptions that filter reality perception so as to become overriding paradigms are the subtle stuff. You only have to be off a few degrees at one point to be a long way away somewhere down the road...

I try to be careful with how I think about things, including evaluating them for what is in the best interests of my own development. There is an impossibly simple/complex universe inside us and outside us, and when the energy is strong inside us, we can make nearly anything be true. Much of that may be true for them.

This is another place where integrity comes in; aside from measurable practical things outside us (which most of us can easily agree on as real/true), for everything else, we decide what we want to be true inside us.

The people who can straddle both worlds are few.

We can go down the road that often our culture or childhood has entrained us in -- make our species or our personal selves victims, or conquerors, or saviors, or betrayers, whatever archetypal role we choose to play out for our own exploration. Many people don't realize that this IS an exploration of self. Even these theories, even the ones that come from 'insight.'

There is no "objective truth" in the interworlds, there is infinite archetypal potential, and everything we experience reflects us, and as such can teach us about ourselves. Whether we see the interworld species and our interactions (individually or as a species) as angelic light-beings evolving us, or dark reptilians eating us, or any other of a gazillion probabilities, reflects a 'dynamic' that we are learning about. It is no more or less true than anything else at that level, but if you don't get stuck in the idea, you will probably move past it and into another.

In the meantime though, you can explore it and probably make a good movie out of it. :-)

But if humans are actually being harvested, and in fact have been harvested presumably for thousands of years.. why then I'd be an asshole, not to divulge the possibility, and why it might be happening.

Your altruism is touching... Now if you carry a sign that says that downtown, it'd make a great picture for this thread. :-)

In short, Kundalini is when a portion of something from Earth (which some people call 'soul' is made to become very luminous (and usually insane with religious fervor) for most of the process, is joined together with something from the sky (atman, spirit, higher self).

This is how some people look at it. That is not really the only way to look at it. Even within that model, there are certainly more, um, expanded ways of understanding that thing, than the words as you put them imply.

The 'religious fervor' is certainly something I experienced for years too.. in fact it's very unfortunate, but a lot of people undergoing this process think that they are Jesus or some other historical God figure. I've spoken to dozens of self-appointed Jesus'es, a few Buddhas, a few 'Devils', etc. I'm in email contact with 3 Jesuses right now.. it's very hard to talk people down while they are in this stage.

Humans tend to model their understanding based on the database they've got. They perceive the christ energy as jesus or buddha, and they are in the midst of that energy as a dynamic experience, so they believe this is now 'who/what' they are.

This is part of the damage that our cultural models do us and one reason I said most people in our culture don't do well with this energy, is the rigid mental models we tend to have for everything. For example, and this is particularly so with the jesus mythos, modern religion has made this very much into a he's-the-only-guy-with-the-christ-energy-ever, so people don't assume that this 'sun-son-christ' is an energy everything becomes part of at a certain level of development. They think they have to be jesus or buddha because he's the only christ they know, he's the only one "allowed" to be christ, in their belief systems as indoctrinated. That's mostly a matter of how we think about things.

It's also a matter of some lack of development and a lack of integrity in some respects -- I mean that word in a much larger sense than most people use it, honesty is a complex and many layered thing when it comes to individuation or spirituality -- it is easier, less scary, and more ego gratifying, to simply "be" someone-else you associate with power, than to simply hold it yourself and be responsible for it yourself.

I think most people find it more fun and less challenging to decide they're powerful or important because they are identity-X, than to simply accept that they now carry this energy, and they are still the proletarian they were ten minutes ago, and they still need to do the dishes and go to work and figure out how to deal with whatever BS may be in their life. Except now they have to do it while having a relationship with that inner energy which expects a great deal of clarity-truth-love out of us. Chop wood, carry water, and all that... any identity (Mithras, Buddha, Jesus) who has carried that energy fully on this planet has already figured out how to carry it while still dealing with the BS of their life. That's why they were a 'christ' (I am 'assuming' here, I don't know who really has been and I am not religious in this regard). We still need to do that work for ourselves. A lot of people don't want to put in that work.

To the degree, merging with a godform of jesus is just likely to make someone a nicer person for awhile, but it's just as consuming as merging with baphomet. Just less shocking at family dinners.

More key, one of the experiences related to kundalini rising, which I suspect most people don't have more than the tiniest taste of, is a certain dissolution of identity, at a fundamental level beyond words (though I did once write it down as best I could). I think the inability to deal with this experience even in tiny measure tends to result in a frantic scrambling into another identity (any identity, just the safety of curling up inside one), and the farther people get into that experience (in the occult they call this The Abyss) without "letting go" of that need for safety/identity, the more shock-repercussion it has on their personality, until they are literally insane -- or killed by it in various ways, from illness to suicide.

That is a matter of strength and integrity; a darwinian challenge on the esoteric level, you might say. I don't mean to sound unsympathetic, it is simply that it's not something one can help another with, so people survive it or they don't.

I think your projecting these experiential effects into something higher/larger/more-powerful preying/eating on us, rather than recognizing it as a lack of strength/integrity in the individuals responsible for their own development, may reflect a problematic paradigm worth meditating on when you get time.

...continued...

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

But what if this (and now I'm going to sound like an AA person here) the process was handed down originally by 'folks' who didn't want it to be done 'right'.. but WANTED all that religious mania (and max creativity, imagination and a certain mind state) to happen.. and didn't care about the person involved?

Or maybe spiritual evolution, much like biological evolution, simply happens. Nature is not concerned that I want to live robustly (youth is truly wasted on the young in the psychological/appreciation regard), nature is concerned that I lived long enough to bear and raise a child. I'm 48 now, it's already massively ramping down hormones and more to divest itself of me, as my importance to the forward-process of ongoing-growth has passed. It isn't personal. Nature is not calculating (conspiratorially) at a higher level to suck out my energy and cast aside my shell. It is simply doing so because that is how it works; no good or bad, no right or wrong, it simply IS. I'm rather fond of the shell and the experience I'm having in this particular holodeck party -- every time I wake up here, it seems so real! as I alway say -- so I'm making the best of where I am. When my quarters run out for the meter, I will go do something else.

Or perhaps the process was supposed to be helpful.. to 'heal' those 'broken souls'

There is no such thing as a broken soul in my cosmology. There are only various-elements of the All that believe they are in Chaos, making their way toward Unity, that are aware of being in the midst of their journey. The longing for unity, and the longing to escape the sense-of-separation, is what has the potential to drive the dedication, discipline, integrity, of the journey.

Whether it is used for that end, or to instead just play out the patterns our personality "here" was entrained to (the victim/controller/martyr/savior/betrayer/etc. roles), is up to the individual.

what if all that ---- let's call it 'white flame' being generated --- sent up a signal flare to hungry ET's (probably DT's)?

Any amplification of chakraic energy makes us more "luminous" to a universe of awareness, some of which are focused on a spectrum that part of us rests within, and some of which have their own interests in our energy as currency, just like many sources around us have their own interest in our money.

We "pay" attention, literally.

Thoughts are things, and ideas can be thoughtforms. When you find yourself really wrapped around the axle of an idea, consider whether it is an idea which, while you feed it your energy, will take you forward in your exploration of self/divine. If it's not, e.g. if it's a focus on Entities-X-Which-Are-Eating-Us, you might consider who you're handing your energy paycheck to.

...'soul' is made to become very luminous (and usually insane with religious fervor) for most of the process, is joined together with something from the sky [...] as the little broken entity ('the soul') 'powers up' and then 'goes home'.

Home being in the sky in your model apparently. Well it's not on a cloud with a harp I assume, maybe that is an improvement over standard religious lore. ;-)

But religious fervor is in fact, almost 'artifically' being forced upon the human race.. billions of people in a religious fervor from a slight to an advanced form.

I assume you don't mean religion, since fervor is personal not governmental.

Human fervor is a matter of what we choose to 'pay' our attention to. We are all naturally attracted to ideas of spirit for a few reasons, one of which is that it's fundamentally "power," and we are all attracted to power, although we model that in many ways. Just like food. Food is merely a symbol for power. An energetic vibration that manifests as what we call atoms which conglomerate to something we eventually call an apple or a steak. But everything from apples to dollar bills are just symbols of the sun.

The center is the Sun. Our biological bodies by default naturally feed at that level, merely breathing. Our personality experiences tend to distort this in one direction or the other, until people are not so effective at the heart but are more effective at other chakras, and how they act to others depends on how much energy they are trying to get through other people (in compensation) instead of directly as it is openly available for the taking on our planet (at the heart level).

The way they behave shows which chakra they are trying to pull it through (e.g. whether intellectual-elite, or hellfire-brimstone threat, or beauty-money ego, these are all distortions that are ways of attempting to "direct the attention [energy=currency] of others" in a way that will then allow that individual to pull/absorb that energy from them -- an alternate source of income, you might say.

humans are being forced to be all 'revved up' with 'religious ferver and spiritual ecstasy' because that produces either "black flame" or "white flame".

Darkness is not of the nothingness. It is merely somethingness without color. That is as surprising to those who think they are of the dark as it is to those who think they are of the light, I believe. :-) Power is power. It has some equivalent of varying flavors, sounds, colors, just like any other kind of energy does. It can be changed by intent, no matter its original nature, if the inherent energy in the intent is stronger than the quantity of power it is attempting to change. Eventually we will all be light -- we will go nova with our Sun, the Son of the universe -- but until then it's a grand game of GO while we flip back and forth between the seeming dark and seeming light. I'm on the white team at the moment in this personality but I'm sure I'm on both teams in many other perspectives...

Perhaps a great number of humans are being harvested.. in the billions... You now that ET and conspiracy mania is also another form of this same thing, at least for some.

And... you don't think you're in that boat already, I take it. ;-)

The harvesting could be happening 24x7x365. I've seen people be harvested at the nape of the neck and of course out the top of the head.

You began this discussion with the process of kundalini and the higher self / atman / holy guardian angel / whatever coming "down (from the sky)" into us, and this generally involves a great amplification of the energy we have ("here").

It is possible for an individual to allow themselves to give out their energy as a helpless victim (suffer energy rape, essentially) but this is not related to most of what our culture calls aliens, and this is not related to the higher self, except that (a) ones integration with HGA is going to be affected by this, and (b) the better integration one has with their fuller-self, the less likely one will be vulnerable to even larger-entities with, er, carniverous interests, let's say.

...continued...

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear

In a similar manner, the whole "soul business" turned out to be very different than I could have imagined or desired. I think that "souls" could better be described by something more akin to quantum electrodynamics than anything "mystical". Also the intersecting lifecycles intersecting with the human nervous system (in ALL humans) threw me for a loop.

Most things I have become aware of over time turned out very differently than I expected as well. More simple and infinitely more complex at the same time. More connected -- the cosmos, the tarot, the cells of the body, the table of elements, everything -- than I can even wrap my head around, even on good days. I don't think I've been disappointed by any of it though, I didn't desire anything specific going in (it was 'jungian/shamanic' for me until it was more, to my surprise). I was just curious, and interested-with-delight and a sort of driving-discipline for experiential-growth.

I don't know that my experience is valid for anybody but me, of course. Everything in a forum post is merely opinion. Every individual's experiences and perspectives on the interworlds are probably just as valid as everybody else's. I'm merely sharing my perspective to support your thread. It's nice to have esoteria here at ATS and not just politics. :-)

but they are not "us". Our true nature is elsewhere.

In my experience, my 'true nature' is pretty much unlimited as far as my brain can wrap around it, and a great deal of the work is attempting to interact with and improve my relationship with the rest of the universe, piece by piece it seems. (Those pieces can be infinitely abstracted and collected into archetypes-as-identities. From existing 'systems' of Aeons [such as tarot, numbers, QLBH paths, planets, chemical elements, musical notes, or body parts] to individual archetypes [my 'relationship with John' or 'the event of my birthday party' or 'my lack of money' or 'the pain in my shoulder' or anything that might be personal.])

Hence there is no such thing as my true nature aside from 'light,' because when I am interacting with anything else, such as in the archetype world for example I am also-them. If something seems apart from me it is because I have not yet become able to interact with it elegantly enough that it can then seem a part of me. (I'm sure that is true "here," too, however I have more difficulty grokking my relationship to rocks and obnoxious people than I do to archetypes I can work internally with...)

That does not mean I have to manifest all energy, of course. I misunderstood that for a long time and I didn't understand how negative things (such as certain tarot card concepts [tarot are the name-labels for Aeons, division-groups of our universe's energy]) would be something I could integrate with to good effect. I learned, thanks to 'oppression' (ten of wands, Thoth deck perspective) that I may choose to dance apart from something, but we are still both in a relationship where we choose to dance apart, in that case. Before I establish a good relationship with that energy, it may be occasionally running into me like a bumper car, or dogging me all over... perhaps then it would qualify as one of your harvesting sucker-fish so to speak.

"Don't force it, seduce it," is the rule I finally learned. Everything longs for power. Everything longs for evolution. When we positively better-integrate with any given energy, it improves both of us, it 'enlarges' both perspectives (and hence innate energy/ span-of-identity), so there is motive on both sides.

Negative energies attacking or just being scary as hell are really the easiest. They are right there with their issues clear. It's true magick in the interworlds, 'dream bigger' (thanks, Inception!), bring in the elements on you both one by one, then send it positive energy through all the chakras especially the heart, then whatever is left of it (it generally changes visual/concept dramatically during that), fix/heal/dance/befriend it whatever way works, intuition is your friend there. HGA or whatever version of an 'inner guide' you use will help. 'The Inner Guide Meditation' by Steinbrecher is a good introduction to a simple, tarot/astrology version of this work, though a good relationship with your IG over time will eventually take it out of the formula and make it a completely novel, no-rules experience.

Just my thoughts: All power is over self. Self is defined by the identity of what we hold. What we hold is defined by what we identify as us vs. not-us. Ask HGA for insight.

If you worry that negative entities are sucking energy out of your species en masse for negative use, I think you could ask for that "concept" as an archetype from your inner guide, and work with it that way. If there is truth to it, you will simply gain clarity and better relationship (to dance apart, one assumes). If there is not truth to it, the work will help you clear up the energy that is skewing your perception.

Peace.

reply to post by RedCairo


Fascinating. Someone came out of hiding.
Welcome!

I may address some of your responses when im not at work, as you made many excellent points and not a single "poor one". I say may, as there is not much that needs a response; you were talking to yourself in a manner of speaking.

As for this post series, the intent was not to provide a crystal clear syllabus of reality, but rather was a response to currents currently in play between a number of individuals, including myself. As you noted, there are a near infinite number of ways of presenting the same information.

In the end analysis, life operating on a temporary and individiated basis either turns towards light or turns another direction. Ultimately using the intentionality thread gets one as far as they wish to travel, so long as they are also guided by the love thread and at least hear the background hum of the formful geometric thread, but do not actualize any, or many of those patterns.

Truly to love with maximum effect one must walk the path of the trickster, the weaver of worlds.

The highest truth is the one that a brother/sister needs to hear. This is the purpose of words. In and of themselves, words can hold no truth.

If you want my email address it is yours.

I smile.

KPB

KellyPrettyBear
reply to post by Snarl

 

I didn't say space aliens.. these would be dimensional or time travelers
in all likelihood.

Ya know; the actual mathematical probabilities, will want to DEMAND that this phenomenon be extraterrestrial as opposed to any other hypothesis.

The existence of other planets capable of supporting life as it is currently understood by Terrestrial Humans is a known FACT! If you would wish a list of such planets, I'm sure we can put one together that will explain every single "extraterrestrial" conceived within the body of "myth".

The existence of alternate dimension, such as is conceived by the "new age", or simply capable of being an alternate to what we all share; is in the very best case Hypothetical itself. The notion of time travel, while being "looked" at by some scientists; is, in its very best case; hypothetical.

Thus, the most logical conclusion here is: Extraterrestrial. At least until there is some data to indicate something else. By the way there is none; most of the "tricks" ET does can all be explained easily by modern, rather conventional physics. The remainder can be explained novel physics. So all of what ET is and his machines, can all be explained by terrestrial science.