Does the World Hold Enough Water to Flood all the land?

reply to post by intrepid


Technically, and going by the official chemical compound that comprises water, H2O, then perhaps there was some event that could have caused the molecules to form drops?

The USGS does say this..

The atmosphere is full of water

So it is not about the earth holding enough, but rather if the atmosphere can hold enough. The Bible says that the rains came, which every flood story says that, rain came. So there was a disruption in the atmosphere that caused water to fall.

The water cycle is all about storing water and moving water on, in, and above the Earth. Although the atmosphere may not be a great storehouse of water, it is the superhighway used to move water around the globe. Evaporation and transpiration change liquid water into vapor, which ascends into the atmosphere due to rising air currents. Cooler temperatures aloft allow the vapor to condense into clouds and strong winds move the clouds around the world until the water falls as precipitation to replenish the earthbound parts of the water cycle. About 90 percent of water in the atmosphere is produced by evaporation from water bodies, while the other 10 percent comes from transpiration from plants.

The atmosphere would then be like a sponge. If something caused pressure in the atmosphere, then the water would have been released.

If the earth went into an ice age, then the water there would have been vaporized, causing pressure and the ensuing water release.

If the earth were at one time a tropical climate, then this would happen

About 90 percent of water in the atmosphere is produced by evaporation from water bodies, while the other 10 percent comes from transpiration from plants.

That's why rain forests are called that. But assuming the majority of the planet were tropical, plants providing water for a long time, then a sudden cooldown, that would make sense that the atmosphere released all the water at one time.

EnochWasRight

Chamberf=6
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

Are you implying that the Earth stopped suddenly, then later "re-started" it spinning?

Not sure I understand.

The Earth rotated in a perfect circle of 360 days a year. It now rotates 365.25. The precession of the Earth is 25920 years from beginning to end. This is 72 years for each degree of movement. One 'generation' is equal to a basic generation of life. That number should be 70, or 25,200 years. That's all I'm saying. The flood is symbolism for Baptism, or the process of beasts riding in the water. Water, in this case, is the catalyst of information expressing into form.

Brother, I am a lurker that at one time contributed much more often to the mass collective of beautiful insanity that is AboveTopSecret, but mate, that was one heck of a beautiful post. It was a very compelling allegory of human existence and its purpose seen through earth's procession cycle, and by implied association, the unique nature of our connection to the moon and its phases that balance the wobble of the earth, which, contrary to the blue collar worker's "common sense", is the astronomical enigma responsible for keeping the earth stable in order for life to exist.

Life existing is simply self-defining.

It makes perfect sense that the wobble, which throws everything out of balance, is exactly what is needed for life to exist... in a perfect world. (I would use a winky emotion here, but I don't freaking emoticon)

And trust me buddy, water taste oh so good.

My mouth is dry- Pardon me while I take a big swig of baptismal cleansing H2O.

Cheers, and a big time star.

No, but during an ice age there is enough water sucked up into ice to lower the sea level about 60 feet. When Global Warming happens, as a result of all those SUVs emitting CO2 14,000 years ago, that water is released, and floods the seacoast wiping out cities that are built there.

Scientists even admit this, i.e.: It's not woo-woo speculation. The stark Eastern Washington landscape east of the cascades, for example, is the result of an ice dam breaking which held back the waters of Lake Missoula. The water rushed down the Columbia River valley and out toward the Pacific Ocean, Just google lake Missoula and there is a ton of information about this event.

Now extrapolate that to the ice dam surrounding Hudson Bay. Global Warming melts the ice. The dam breaks. All the water trapped in Hudson Bay rushes out. Cities on the Coast in India and japan are suddenly underwater, the remains of which can be seen today, and Voila!

Flood Story.

No need for Noah, expanding earth, or anything else weird. Just a natural result of a warming earth put into legends worldwide.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Yes but how does it explain:

According to the Jewish historian Josephus, Irish archbishop and chronologist James Ussher, Bible historians and most conservative Christian scholars, the Flood of Noah's time occurred between 2500 BC and 2300 BC.

www.creationtips.com...

If the flood happened how could these event happened?

c. 2900 BC – 2334 BC: Mesopotamian wars of the Early Dynastic period continue.
c. 2360 BC: Hekla-4 eruption.
c. 2400 BC: 2000 BC- large painted jar with birds in the border made in the indus river vally civilization and is now at the Boston Art Museum
c. 2350 BC: End of the Early Dynastic III period in Mesopotamia.
c. 2350 BC: First destruction of the city of Mari.
c. 2345 BC: End of Fifth Dynasty. Pharaoh Unas died.
c. 2345 BC: Sixth dynasty of Egypt starts (other date is 2460 BC).
c. 2340 BC – 2180 BC: Akkadian Empire.
c. 2334 BC – 2279 BC: Semitic chieftain Sargon of Akkad's conquest of Sumer and Mesopotamia.
City of Lothal founded under the Indus valley civilization.

en.wikipedia.org...

ETA: It didn't seem to interrupt the flow of Egyptian history either:

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by intrepid


I hold to the proposition that there was a global flood, only that it occurred earlier in time than what was stated. We don't have written records from pre-flood people, only their memories of it after, and we know humans migrated across the planet.

I believe religion all originated at a single place, and then migrated with people. They would then have taken their flood stories with them. But if there was a flood, as many scientists agree happened, then we are reading not their accounts of the flood, but the memories from those who transmitted the story. There are very few people who would say that "this is Noah's account". As it is not written from that perspective then we have to think it was someone else who was relating this.

The only reason we say Noah is because Noah was the Hebrew word for it. But think about it, a group of people who were slaves 400 years in Egypt, separated from all other civilizations except around Egypt, and then upon reaching Canaan, would suddenly have this flood story, also found as far as the Americas?

Makes you wonder, how they would even know, because there is no interaction between the ancient Hebrews and the Americas, either way.

reply to post by WarminIndy


The bottom line is how can these cultures have had things going on if Noah(whoever) and family were the only ones alive? And yes there were writings of the time. Hieroglyph and such.

I can buy that it can rain for 40 days. I've lived in the Pacific Northwest. I can't buy that there was enough water that the earth couldn't get rid of half a mile(this mountains elevation) of it over that period of time:

en.wikipedia.org...

It HAS to be allegorical.

reply to post by kyviecaldges


It's so nice when the beautiful mind gets what I say. Thank you.

Try this one on for size: Nash Equilibria. Not what is best for the individual, but what is best for all. Why did God allow disunity? Why the flood? Why the wobble? It's all the same thing. Free will is the Ear of the Seed. Earth is a place where we are held in custody. What is the prisoner's dilemma? In this case, the prisoner is not the fixed mind. God is the fixed mind. In physics, this is invariable symmetry. All platonic solids are the same no matter how you rotate them. God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow. Why? It's the best outcome already solved. All we need to do is change our minds to adapt.

OK, another discrepancy:

20 Fifteen cubits upward did the waters prevail; and the mountains were covered.

www.biblegateway.com...

OK, what's a cubit?

About 2 feet.

So that's 30' of water.

21 And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:

Not according to recorded history.

reply to post by intrepid


I agree that this perpetually occurring global flood is misrepresented by the story of Noah, and abused by individuals to control others who unknowingly commit irrational behaviors that benefit people who rise in a triangular social status power structure.

The question is this- Was the story created by a small group of people who are aware of the flood that occurs in cycles due to precession of the earth and the heating and cooling cycles responsible for ice ages and the sudden floods that occur during a warm cycle and rapid melting of the ice sheets?

Does this small group of sociopaths know that a repetitive cataclysm creates unimaginable destruction and life as the many, possibly highly evolved smart strong people and their smaller friends, is completely destroyed leaving only a small minority of our resilient species naked in the woods with fig leaves and all knowledge is lost.
Except for what the survivors remember, which is passed through generations by verbal history. Life must start from scratch.

Did this small multi-generational collective create disperse across the globe and create different variations of this story and call it a religion dubbing themselves priests who call the shots and show their connection to God, and therefore the validity of their story, by having the pre-flood knowledge of the movements of the universe?

Was the purpose of this story to play on the innate inborn fear of this flood.
A story that allows them control over the masses by creating a religion that demands absolute obedience or eternal damnation in Hell?

It would be a hoot it the means to create unquestioned belief in this scam is a symbolic allegory of very real flood is the real chance of it happening at any freaking minute. This would obviously imprint subconscious paralyzing fear based on the fight or fight instinct. This is our most basic reaction. We can't ignore it or we die, it is and the most powerful force in the human psyche. We have an innate biological imperative to survive and control of that will most certainly give... I hate to say.... near unlimited power over a person's behavior.

Christians most certainly have deluded themselves into believing that an emulsion of colored fluid absorbed onto compressed cellulose, which preserves the imprints made by the fluid... is the absolute reality that should never be questioned and their sole purpose as believers of this purely symbolic allegory is to get others to believe this, or they spend eternity burning hell and brim stone and gnashing teeth with Beelzebub, Osama Bin Latin, Saddam Hussein, Hitler, etc...

And if you get to this point, there is no escape. As George Carlin used to say- "We are SHOCKINGLY 'effed'".

Kind of scary if you freak out easy and can pause long enough to actually think.

What would be enough more hilarious is if a highly organized and powerful small group of hidden uber duper multi-generational families belonged to an institution that even went so far as to have the cojones to label themselves 'mystery'.
And they used that story, crowd psychology, a whole boat freaking load of money, and very little ethics to delude innocent victims into harming fellow human beings because either not adhering to the dogmatic rituals that accompanied belief of this fairy tale or simply not believing this cornball symbolic representative of what a group of crazy smart and really strong people figured out before the same freaking flood destroyed the hard evidence of their existence. And they built monuments to this event.

Wouldn't that be some really funny freaking crap if that was real.
I mean- I might get paranoid and start writing about it so that other people can wake up from the outright absurd lie.
Thank God that's not happening. (I DON'T USE EMOTICONS)

The map is not the territory, if you know what I mean.
(again the whole winky smiley nada, yada, yada...)

Words themselves are representative things by nature, and while it seems absurd that someone might believe them to be truly.... ummmm... authentic is the best word.
Now get this. It is the best part:

Words are merely representations of reality.
Wow... My brain hurts.

I guess my point is that a shred of truth is contained within this idea of water, floods, rebirth, birth, cleansing,.

Water is the freaking shiz-nit.
It is the most precious substance of enigmatic loving; and the motion of hydraulics, the moon cycles, and thus precession create life as we know it.
All thanks to a moon that is perfectly sized and shaped to balance this wobble that operates like clockwork.
It creates the seasons, which are marked by the solstice.
The seasons maintain our planet within a temperature that is necessary for life to exist.

So I ask you.
Why not worship water, or at the very least create stories that glorify the very thing.
We should just not take the stories to be as literal as the water that is God.

[DRUG TALK: REMOVED BY STAFF]

Religions rightly worship this ubiquitous allegory morphed into various religions symbols because it is worthy to be worshipped.
But they forget that the words and dogmatic rituals created by man, not water, that are involved in the man-made worship of this killer stuff called water are just symbols.
In my humble opinion, this is whathyper-realism.(the post modern philosopher) meant by hyper-reality.
The very thing that is found in the story of the flood and a religious spiritual cleansing with water.

It is hat which washes away so that all could become new again,
The consumption, immersion and metabolism of water.

The moon is proportioned exactly to the size of the sun as viewed from the earth. This is what create an eclipse. One, yet again, universal marker found in the calender systems of all religions, and civilizations.
These events are of such importance to who ever the super genius group of really strong smart people were that built the bajillion megaliths found on earth thought they were important enough to erect massive multi-ton creations that STILL EXIST.

Every time I stay outside too much, exerting myself, in the sun, while seating too cool my body from the intense heat and humidity...
I will go back under a shade tree and have a tall glass of water. Or take a dip in a pool.

Than maybe I will get out and take a bath.

And feel better.
Some folks wanna associate that with God and make up funny fairy tales they take literally (whatever that means). These fairy tales somehow make them want to declare war on a people and behead them if they don't agree wholeheartedly and act accordingly to these ludicrous stories.

If you think about this thing God seems pretty dang irrational.
But irrational like a number. Cuz they are always the most beautiful.

Cheers.

intrepid
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

The bottom line is how can these cultures have had things going on if Noah(whoever) and family were the only ones alive? And yes there were writings of the time. Hieroglyph and such.

I don't think you understand my thought system here. What we are talking about is a major event that occurred very early in human history. When that time was, is speculation. But as the Bible gives a history of the genealogy of the Jewish race, and Noah may have been known by other names prior to the Hebrew name placement, Noah represents more than a man, but a time frame of humanity.

Jesus said "as the days of Noah were", was He referring to the days before the flood, or after the flood? And Joshua says "you may serve the gods of your fathers before the flood" Indicating that there was a worship system in place pre-flood.

Those other gods are not mentioned by name here, only that it was recognized that they did. And since Joshua was speaking to the Hebrews, was he saying their fathers or was he saying our fathers. He didn't say "our fathers" so Joshua was implying to those people he was speaking to that they were not from the same group. We only know Joshua by the Hebrew name placed onto him. He may have had an entirely different name to another language family.

It implies to me that Noah represented an era in the timeline of human history. Let's go through this, Noah means rest, the ark rested on the mountains of Ararat. Moses built an ark, the ark rested in the tabernacle and the temple. So it's more than just a floating box.

As Abraham came from further east, then it makes sense to me that human history that is recorded came from more east than that. I believe that civilization began in Harappa and then spread out. Noah is not counted as a patriarch of the Jews. So he came from somewhere beyond the known geographical boundaries to them. I am a believer in the Harappa civilization, older than Sumerian. And those gods before the flood,were known then.

reply to post by WarminIndy


So it allegorical then.

intrepid
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

So it allegorical then.

Since I believe there was an actual flood sometime in our ancient past, and there were people warned of the flood in our ancient past, the flood itself was not allegorical. What makes it allegorical is why the flood happened.

There are some consistencies in the memories of the flood. And maybe it happened in Dreamtime? Like the Aboriginals believe everything happened in Dreamtime?

I will just say there was a flood.

Here's a vid bearing on the thread subject, not the one I had in mind in my first post, but actually more informative:

www.youtube.com...

- There isn't enough water. Period.
- The Old Testament stories shouldn't be taken literally.
- Archeology and science prove that the flood story is bunk. DNA evidence proves it's IMPOSSIBLE for all of humanity to have come from 3 pair of reproducing adults on a boat from 6,000 or so years ago. Impossible.
- Ditto the animals.

FlyersFan
- There isn't enough water. Period.
- The Old Testament stories shouldn't be taken literally.
- Archeology and science prove that the flood story is bunk. DNA evidence proves it's IMPOSSIBLE for all of humanity to have come from 3 pair of reproducing adults on a boat from 6,000 or so years ago. Impossible.
- Ditto the animals.

No, there isn't enough water for our present world, but remember that the pre-Flood world was flatter geographically and smaller than our present world. Even out the ground surface of the Earth, above and below the level of the ocean, and there is still sufficient water to drown it all.

The Old Testament is written with a fairly broad brush, and gobs of details are left out. Nevertheless, you speak against a huge body of evidence embedded in language, myth, and literature. The Miao people, for instance, have passed their Flood story down by word-of-mouth for millennia, but the phonetic names of the characters in the story are still recognizable by sound alone.

Archaeology has proven that the Flood story is bunk? Um, the Ark has been found (not a boat) in Turkey, sea-anchors and all. What was found fits Genesis exactly. As for science in general, the debate goes on and on, and NO ONE can claim full victory at this point in time, as anyone acquainted with real science should admit.

WarminIndy

intrepid
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

So it allegorical then.

Since I believe there was an actual flood sometime in our ancient past, and there were people warned of the flood in our ancient past, the flood itself was not allegorical. What makes it allegorical is why the flood happened.

There are some consistencies in the memories of the flood. And maybe it happened in Dreamtime? Like the Aboriginals believe everything happened in Dreamtime?

I will just say there was a flood.

Multiple localized floods over time can give many cultures the same distant past "flood story".

Entire world flooded at once? NO.

reply to post by Lazarus Short

Um, the Ark has been found (not a boat) in Turkey, sea-anchors and all.

Any links for that?

And if so, does it say "property of Noah" on the side, or "Ark"?

Is it big enough to fit two of EVERY animal on it?

The main stories of the old testament were written down around between around 1500 BC ( that means if you are a believer that it took 2500 years until "they" wrote the Pentateuch) and 450 BC, so I don't see how any of it could be considered even close to reliable history.

Chamberf=6
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Um, the Ark has been found (not a boat) in Turkey, sea-anchors and all.

Any links for that?

Yes, but no post by me. I'm past tired of presenting evidence, followed by quick ridicule. Do your own research.

Lazarus Short

Chamberf=6
reply to post by Lazarus Short

 

Um, the Ark has been found (not a boat) in Turkey, sea-anchors and all.

Any links for that?

Yes, but no post by me. I'm past tired of presenting evidence, followed by quick ridicule. Do your own research.

You mean something like this?

A team of evangelical Christian explorers claim they've found the remains of Noah's ark beneath snow and volcanic debris on Turkey's Mount Ararat (map).
But some archaeologists and historians are taking the latest claim that Noah's ark has been found about as seriously as they have past ones—which is to say not very. (See "Noah's Ark Discovered in Iran?" and "Noah's Ark Quest Dead in Water—Was It a Stunt?") "I don't know of any expedition that ever went looking for the ark and didn't find it," said Paul Zimansky, an archaeologist specializing in the Middle East at Stony Brook University in New York State.

No expedition that didn't "find it" (in completely different locations no less) because they were all sure they were right because they soooo wanted to be.

"I'm really, really skeptical that this could possibly be Noah's Ark," he added. The wood date is "way, way, way too young."
Wood thinks Noah's ark will never be found, because "it would have been prime timber after the flood," he said.

Stony Brook's Zimansky agreed. "Nobody associated that mountain with the ark" until the tenth century B.C., he said, adding that there's no geologic evidence for a mass flood in Turkey around 4,000 years ago. (See "'Noah's Flood' Not Rooted in Reality, After All?")
The Noah's Ark Ministries International explorers are "playing in a very different ballpark than the rest of us," Zimansky said. "They're playing without any concern for" the archaeological, historical, and geological records.

news.nationalgeographic.com...

You mean links like that??
Funny because it doesn't really support you claim where you said

Um, the Ark has been found (not a boat) in Turkey, sea-anchors and all. What was found fits Genesis exactly