When Did Matter Make Its First "Choice?"

reply to post by Bleeeeep


If I reversed my understanding, then I would disagree with what you just said.

"God did it" is great and all, and a statement I would agree with. That said, the "how" is what this thread is about, in that context.

When did planets start to form as spherical shapes orbiting around other celestial bodies?

"God did it" can explain it, if one is inclined to such a belief. But, we have used celestial mechanics to grow our understanding of the "how" for hundreds of years.

I know its not a standard most like to accept, but communication is a two way street. Instead of assuming you know what I do understand, and dont, perhaps we could have a communication instead of condescension from an ivory tower?

I am doing my best to communicate my point here, and have learned quite a few things from the thread already. However, when I say "you are missing my point," its far too easy for who is spoken towards to just say "well, you need to change your understanding" rather than point that finger inward.

intrptr
I simply meant the Universe has always been here. It had no "beginning" and it will never "end". Thats what infinity means.

I do not see the universe to be infinite. "All that is," yes, most certainly. But, not the physical universe.

You are looking at it from the third dimension.

Fair enough.

There is no "time". Man invented that.

Fair enough.

That happens "all the time" (to put it in your terms).

Yes, it does.

Its an ongoing process.

Yes, it is.

As far as I know, the concept of "forever" has not been redefined to mean 13.4 Billion years (the current scientifically defined age of the Universe).

Ok.

Now, instead of attempts at conversion, or preaching limited perspectives as all-encompassing truth... lets consider this a thought experiment instead!

If the universe started 13.4 billion years ago, at what point along that time line did planets start to form into spherical shapes. Yes, it is an ongoing process, but in this "thought experiment" it had to start somewhere. Along the same lines, when did matter gain the ability to flabbledeefloo and swim against the tidal forces bringing it back to the source?

reply to post by Serdgiam


I wasn't being condescending or speaking from on high. I am just trying to get you to start from a different perspective.

If you like, don't think of God, just say mind. Then choice is before the matter that is manifested as a representation of choice.

To put it another way, you must be aware, and you must have will, before you can choose.

For something to go against the grain of your torus drain, it must have first gained will to make that choice - but even further down, before that torus was created, something had to have willed it from chaos or randomness.

Where does the light and form of mental images come from?... That sort of thing.

Matter is inanimate, AI, and isn't spirit, it doesnt make choices but is affected in density and events by Spirit's choices in the tests, like a teeter totter, the universe is a holographic and very responsive testing program.

Bleeeeep
reply to post by Serdgiam

 

If you like, don't think of God, just say mind. Then choice is before the matter that is manifested as a representation of choice.

Scratch that word choice, we are using flabbledeefloo now. People have too many ideological biases towards the initial word, which I certainly should have thought about.

As a planet circles around the sun, we do not see it suddenly turn 90 degrees and zip out of our solar system. And yet, a human can build a space ship and do that very thing.

The pattern itself is different, while all being inevitably part of the same equation.

If you feel this pattern is sourced outside of time, thats great! But it has little to do with the thread.

As matter took form, in our current model of the universe, celestial mechanics were followed regardless of where this source is. The source doesnt matter. At some point, another manifestation of the source pattern exhibited itself in the form of being able to take different patterns. To direct energy instead of being potential energy.

Why is this specific to scale, or is it? If it isnt, why do we not see it in *every* scale? And either way, at what point did this pattern start to manifest within the limited timeline, and what processes led up to it?

This isnt meant to be an ideological battleground, where the question is rendered meaningless according to an individually perceived answer. Think of it as a thought experiment, where the "rules" are what we currently understand as "physics."

reply to post by Unity_99


Thanks unity!

Now, do you feel all matter is imbued with the same spiritual ability? If not, then when did the different patterns manifest? If so, then how are there vastly different "abilities" amongst different collections of matter?

reply to post by Serdgiam

I do not see the universe to be infinite. "All that is," yes, most certainly. But, not the physical universe.

So then tell me, if you could what is outside the Universe?

If the universe started 13.4 billion years ago, at what point along that time line did planets start to form into spherical shapes. Yes, it is an ongoing process, but in this "thought experiment" it had to start somewhere. Along the same lines, when did matter gain the ability to flabbledeefloo and swim against the tidal forces bringing it back to the source?

Okay. I think that this part of the Infinite Universe may have experienced a localized "big Bang" (there have been many), and after that as the explosion bloomed it cooled and the first atoms appeared that begun to cling to the other atoms that formed and that is how that part of this universe began to form.

Sort of reversing what happens in a sun. When inside a sun Matter is not matter, it is subatomic particles, right? When a star goes nova it radiates plasma which cools becomes atoms of all the Periodic elements and then that star "stuff" coagulates and forms clouds and then planets and new stars.

Is that what you are wondering?

PS Spheres are formed when matter becomes so dense that gravity pulls down the edges and makes things round. Pulling towards the center from all angles make spheres. There is a cutoff point. Msst small asteroids are not spherical they are lumpy or oblong because they have not grown large enough.

Thats why on Earth there are avalanches and undersea slides . Earths gravity pulls the tops "down" towards the center of the planet.

reply to post by Serdgiam


The same can be asked of each element. Why does one element form differently than another? Why is there not just 1 thing. That is what I am trying to get at. Before there were planets, something made a flibidibobble....


In religion, the forces are called spirits. There is a spirit which governs each different type of force. (This is why I mentioned earlier about all the religions being similar in principle.)

You are looking at the forces, or spirits, and asking why they differ... The answer is because God made a flobibleeeeepblop to make them.

Spirit = manifested will. It denotes the task or role or governance of an entity. Like a fireman is to humans what a water spirit is to a force/power/principality or angel.

If you acknowledge manifested will/spirit/mental images/concepts created by mind rather than body, you will have your answer.

Serdgiam
reply to post by Unity_99

 

Thanks unity!

Now, do you feel all matter is imbued with the same spiritual ability? If not, then when did the different patterns manifest? If so, then how are there vastly different "abilities" amongst different collections of matter?

I believe its metaphorically like this wonderful arranged highly intelligent and responsive movie you enter, midplay almost, so to speak, and then Spirit tries to influence, and we have Universal energies that stream in from Beyond and that is in the system already, plus maintenance workers and those on higher levels who haven't fallen, or haven't even willingly entered into the matter testing grounds, ie matter more gravity based, so there is help all around us and from outside.

I believe that its Spirit/Consciousness that is the true Force and Spiritual, but that the field is very responsive and parental almost, protective for the ones waking up with positive energies to send out. We can create harmony edens or chaos.

Density of matter to me is akin to gravity of error or ego or shrinking Spirit consciousness, then we become more machine than man. ie caught up in more density, less fluidity and change takes place, its harder to lift up out of it.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

The creature does not choose.

“The field is the sole governing agency of the particle.”
Albert Einstein.

There's the field (prakriti - everything that is perceived e.g.: the mind, etc. -, incorrectly translated as nature by westerners) but there's also the purusha (within everyone), the pure, immutable, direct knower and master of the field...

D1ss1dent
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

The creature does not choose.

“The field is the sole governing agency of the particle.”
Albert Einstein.

There's the field (prakriti - everything that is perceived e.g.: the mind, etc. -, incorrectly translated as nature by westerners) but there's also the purusha (within everyone), the pure, immutable, direct knower and master of the field...

The field is the fabric of space which is vibrating and the particles are that which dance upon/in it.

That which appears and moves is being moved - nothing is moving independently.

a reply to: Serdgiam
Matter only matters to those that matter matters to.

Second.

a reply to: Serdgiam

To 1 the perception and label(description) of what matter is can confine ones mind to set observable parameters by the observer...
In short the primary cause or distributor of what matter may actually be and its cause for creation may not be made of even a matter based material nor is to totally be understood objectively by those placed within the set parameters.

With this in mind it is possible that what some may be considering with this OP of matter gaining choice that its possible just the manifestations and influences of a non matter based influence currently not understood within the levels of awareness in this realm of existence...

For if we are all still in a dimensional-universal school for CREATOR Creations to LEARN why would the TEACHERS immediately provide the full layouts of the SYSTEM of influence? Knowing some potential students may try to Advance or Ascend w/o the proper lessons of conduct obtained from experience which may cause offsets or unbalances within this energy containment device of what many are within its interior inhabiting...

NAMASTE*******

a reply to: Serdgiam

Lets look into a decision, with a step-by-step approach:

1) Observe current situation
2) Predict the outcome of current trajectory and plan alternate trajectories
3) Choose
4) Change trajectory
5) Arrive at different destination

To explain:

1) To observe ones situation, one does not need to have choice, so, something that is aware, can easily observe its surroundings, provided it has senses.

2) To predict the outcome of current trajectory means that one can see into the future or estimate the future, this requires a mechanism, such as the brain. The brain can predict that if one continues their path, they will end up in a specific area - for example, a pool player can see where the ball would go depending on how he strikes it - to do this, he has to calculate the trajectories of the ball. In order to do this, the brain must be connected to the surrounding environment, the brain can thus apply the innate laws of physics to its observation and make determinations.

To recap now, one needs senses, and a mechanism to predict outcomes in the environment, such as a brain, that is connected to the environment by its understanding of the innate laws - physics for example

3) In order to choose, one can see that to continue current trajectory they will end up in destination A, and to make a prediction and plan an alternate outcome, they end up in location B. In order to choose between A or B one needs to have a sense of purpose - this requires a construct such as the "self" or the "ego" that is capable of feeling desires. Thus, one desires choice B so they choose it and change their path

To recap again - senses, calculation mechanism (brain), self-construct.

4) In order to change trajectory, the individual must have a link between their desires, and the mechanism of the brain that allows for the control of movement, this interface allows the "self" to control the "brain" as per its identification with the activities that occur in the brain - and this, is, of course, the mind, as we can define it.

Senses, calculation mechanism (brain), self-construct, self-brain interface (mind).

5) Arriving at the alternate destination, one must also realise that they have made a choice, in order for the cycle to be complete, in order for this to happen, memory is required - one remembers that they chose B instead of A and thus they know why they are at a different location. If you could not remember what you chose, you would not realise that you have made a choice, and this is crucial.

Lastly - Senses, calculation mechanism (brain), self-construct, self-brain interface (mind), recording mechanism (memory).

So, you need to have senses, a brain, a mind, an ego, and memory in order to choose.

a reply to: Serdgiam

Matter isn't conscious and it makes no decisions.
But matter was put in motion. And very precisely.

a reply to: Serdgiam

We first have to understand frequency in order to understand material.

Light is one of the physicaly observable expressions of frequencys, It appears white but you can extract every observable color

Think about it in terms of prisms mirrors and lenses and what you can do with them! You can fracture light with prisms, with lenses you isolate one color, and with the mirror you rearange them.

In this way you can create a rainbow at your will!

Crystals.
Order out of chaos.
Quartz would be a good candidate, it can store information and produce electricity.

a reply to: SystemResistor

/Thread.

Seriously I was just coming in to say that same thing, except not as specifically lol,nice work! However, sense could be bypassed by pure awareness, for reference think of ghosts what physical senses could they posess? So could te brain theoretically be bypassed by the self construct, not for us humans, but again in the case of the ghost. Not arguing for ghosts, just saying.

One could also choose against something. OP was interested in how things defy the general course of rule of reality, it coul be as simple as noticing this structure and acting against or upon it

a reply to: Serdgiam

Continuing the planet metaphor, it'd have to be conscious, an possessing of the factors mentioned by System Resistor. A further quetion would then be: by what means woul the planet move,assuming it had senses, a brain, a mind, an ego, and memory ; by what powe or means would it move itself? How could it ever? People look around arms and legs and say they were made to moving that's how we move but really those are powered by electrical impulses and fuel(blood) but like... How'd that # get programmed

if matter created consciousness, it would be like shadows creating the light.