Mentally ill prisoners forced from cells with pepper spray

Initially I was going to pass on this story but it kept really bugging me. In the US we have the highest prison population in the world, many of those people are mentally ill and they are being treated as badly or worse than those of the old mental asylum days.

This is not about whether these people committed crimes or not. It is about how we treat those in enforced helplessness and those of them who are mentally ill. Granted many violent offenders may not be mentally ill at all perhaps just evil or operating on their basest instincts. Still many thousands of them are definitely operating in diminished capacity and our treatment of them is outright barbaric.

Mentally ill prisoners forced from cells with pepper spray

SACRAMENTO — Videotapes released Thursday by a federal court show mentally ill prisoners in California being forced from their cells by guards who douse them repeatedly with pepper spray. Some of the inmates are being forced to comply with medication orders; others are to be moved to new cells.

In one tape shot in July of last year at California State Prison at Corcoran, a screaming, naked prisoner is sprayed five times in 15 minutes before being tackled to the ground by about half a dozen guards and then strapped to a gurney.

His prison psychiatrist testified that the psychotic inmate had lost touch with reality and needed emergency medication. "When we order involuntary medications, the inmate is told they will receive medications whether they like it or not," said the psychiatrist, Dr. Ernest Wagner.

All I can say is if they weren't mentally ill before they certainly will be after being incarcerated to places like this. Personally if it came down to it I'd rather be killed by SWAT than delivered into the hands of those who commit these atrocities. The US penal system is beyond broken and so is support for basic mental health.

reply to post by Bassago


I would say that each and every violent offender is mentally ill. Normal people just do not go around inflicting violence on other living things.

Our prison system is a joke. Treat people like animals for extended periods of time, and that is exactly what most people will become. It takes an extremely strong person to come through the whole prison experience without being totally screwed in the head. From the treatment they get from guards, not to mention the treatment they get from people that have already been turned to animals long ago. It's hard to come back to normalcy after that.

It's the same kind of thing that makes people in warzones just snap and never come back from it. It's sad as hell the way humanity acts, like we are programmed with a self destruct mechanism or something.....

reply to post by Bassago

This is not about whether these people committed crimes or not. It is about how we treat those in enforced helplessness and those of them who are mentally ill. Granted many violent offenders may not be mentally ill at all perhaps just evil or operating on their basest instincts. Still many thousands of them are definitely operating in diminished capacity and our treatment of them is outright barbaric.

I suggest volunteering with some type of reintegration program, even if it's only for a week or two. It will totally change the way you think about prisoners.

The state has thrown the criminal boogeyman in the face of its citizens since a young age, and it's hard to get that mental programming rewritten.

Mind you, the people you will interact with live in a different world, so you need to have your guard up, and not show any signs of weakness or direct compassion.

If you are able to, try the same thing in a country like Sweden, (Who treat their prisoners like humans) and see the difference. If the criminal justice system is breeding criminals, there is a major problem. And the numbers speak volumes about problems…

Based on how a society treats the least of its members says alot about it in and of itself.

Disabled criminals is about as bottom of the totem poll as you can get, and its shameful the conditions they face in prison.

Prison is a challenge for the most capable of humans, I could only imagine what its like for someone with a mental handicap.

There are so many examples I could point to where we NEED to do better, this is just one of them.

reply to post by boncho


It's sad as hell, I used to do some volunteer work with ex cons. Teaching them how to act during job interviews and things like that. I have seen some of the toughest seeming guys break down and cry because they were out there giving their best trying to turn their life around, getting turned down again and again. No one wanted to give them the chance to prove they were ready to be normal people. I gave a few of the more promising ones temporary jobs, trained them in the basics in my trade, then hooked them up with guys I knew running larger crews. I took a pretty big chance doing it, there was plenty of temptation to swipe things at the houses I worked at. Not a single one did me wrong.

reply to post by Bassago

Gives a whole new meaning to the words "gas chamber". All thats missing is a dose of Zyklon B.

No wonder they're "nuts". They treat zoo animals better than that. I understand the refusal to take the drugs they force on these people. They aren't remedies for their illness, just a sedative to "quiet them down". They are still sick and while on drugs, zombies too.

There is no other alternative to this kind of treatment because prisons are houses of detention, not mental health care units. All they do is incarcerate and punish "bad behavior". The guards have little alternative as well. They aren't doctors or psychiatrists. They just follow procedure. The procedure of prison.

So the victims of mental illness are screwed both ways. Punished for their state of mind and locked away to rot.

reply to post by TKDRL

I would say that each and every violent offender is mentally ill. Normal people just do not go around inflicting violence on other living things.

My take on this is split between violent offenders are all mentally in and some violent offenders are simply operating at a base animal level of instinct. Whether there is a true difference is probably a matter of debate as any human who is not able to function above the basic animal level might be considered mentally ill anyway.


reply to post by boncho

I suggest volunteering with some type of reintegration program, even if it's only for a week or two. It will totally change the way you think about prisoners.

The state has thrown the criminal boogeyman in the face of its citizens since a young age, and it's hard to get that mental programming rewritten.

Doubtful I would volunteer for that but could you explain how this would change my thoughts on prisoners? I see them as human beings who through choice or circumstance have fallen into our prison industrial complex. That it makes their mental heath worse probably is a given.

reply to post by Bassago

Doubtful I would volunteer for that but could you explain how this would change my thoughts on prisoners? I see them as human beings who through choice or circumstance have fallen into our prison industrial complex. That it makes their mental heath worse probably is a given.

I actually misread your post. I thought you were calling them barbaric and not the treatment of them. Of course it wouldn't be an inaccurate judgement, it's just that they have been conditioned that way in many cases.

Cheers.

reply to post by Bassago


A lot of criminals grow up in really bad areas. The way they survive is purely off those base instincts, rules of the jungle and all that. Constant fear puts people into a primal state of mind, when that is all you know, it's like being indoctrinated I would say.

I see the differences to a less extreme extent in the mentality difference between people that grew up in urban areas, verses people that grew up in the sticks like me. Take guns for instance. People like me practically born with a gun in my hand, while city people are raised with a near phobia of guns. I see them as a tool, no different than any of my other tools. When I need to cut wood, I pick the right saw. When I need to put down some brazen coyotes, I pick the right gun.

I worked in a prison for like a month and witnessed something like this.
There was an inmate who was clearly mentally ill who had been put in the suicide watch cell. I won't get into details, but one day he was causing trouble inside his cell. Some of the officers tried talking to him but he was demanding to talk to the sergeant, so the sergeant came. Now the particular door on this cell had a clear "wall" across the bars, to prevent from things being thrown at you or from being spit on, etc etc. The sergeant came in and told us in the control station to crack the door open. We did, and he filled the cell with pepper spray and then just left the guy in there like that. He was rolling on the floor screaming. Prison is a pretty *ed up place.

reply to post by Bassago


It's hard to say you can blame the correction officers. They have procedures to follow and likely mouths to feed at home.

In the current economic climate, many don't have much a choice, it's sad, but so are many f9d' up things in our society. Just know that going after the officers isn't going to solve anything, they will be replaced as always since they are the symptom of the sick system we have, not the cause.

reply to post by BlubberyConspiracy


it takes a pretty special kind of a person to become a prison guard....the people that do must enjoy torturing others because if they say that they just want to help people they have a funny way of helping......and with all the private prisons popping up im pretty sure not everyone who is in prison deserves to be there

reply to post by trollz


That's one of the things I mean when talking about the penal system being. The sheer brutality of some of the people in authority is simply mind boggling. I doubt that I would survive prison in the first place even if the guards were angels which of course many are not. Seems like if someone does make it through they would come out one of two ways, completely broken or wanting some serious payback.

reply to post by trollz


Seargant? What do they think they are army now? I thought they were called wardens?

As for prison guards I knew, they seem to think of the prisoners as animals. The only thing they respond to is violence and intimidation.

I'd rather be killed by SWAT than delivered into the hands of those who commit these atrocities. The US penal system is beyond broken and so is support for basic mental health.

reply to post by Bassago


You should read "Guantanamo" by David Hicks, The Australian that was held captive at Guantanamo bay.
What ever your beliefs are it takes nothing away from what he and others have endured there.

Could law enforcement have a tendency towards Social Darwinism? Just going out on a limb there. The number of police altercations with metally ill persons which result in death is astronomical. In many cases, the "suspect" is unarmed. I've seen it happen a few times in my hometown. The common rationalization for those shootings is that the cops were unprepared to deal with mental illness and panicked. But what about prison guards? They are in a situation of control, they get to know the inmates long term, so you can't blame it on stress of lack of experience. And yet there's still the trend of gratuitous violence.