CBS FOI Request -1st Day Obamacare Website Enrollment Numbers, Drumroll... Six

reply to post by elouina

No race or competition, but it is awfully funny!

What is funny about it?

I know for you and other Right wingers, anything that you can fist pump negatively about Obama gets you all warm and fuzzy.

But you do realize that if the ACA fails, we go straight into single payer right??? I'm assuming that isn't something you would support being an extreme right wing ideologue...but for me it is the actual end goal that we are looking for.

reply to post by AlienScience


Actually if Obama crap fail that I know is going to happen, it will be lots of legislation from the Obama site to try to fix the problems and save face, creating more mess and chaos in the process, after the failure is inevitable, and lost of tax dollars wasted and abused, the Republic rats will come out with their version of the health care crap and more waste and abuse of tax dollars will continue.

Because after all when you have big interest money in politics nothing is going to be for the benefit of the public and tax payer

And that is a fact that I can bank.

reply to post by AlienScience


I did source that hospital line, because I knew you'd ask for one. All you have to do is click on the link which opens up another ATS thread, but that thread has the original link as well. But whatever, you don't have to believe it. I don't control you.

The reason I am cheering this law's failure is because I don't approve the government forcing me to buy a product or pay a fine. You claim that the outcome of this failure is a single payer system. However that would be a nice solution. What will really happen is that Obama and co will try to salvage this bill for as long as possible, spending more and more money trying to get it to work. As each change is implemented, the bill will alter and become more expansive, confusing, and broken. Also a single payer solution would be nice if by then we can even afford to implement it. If Obamacare fails, it could very well take the whole country with it as it siphons off more and more money to help pay for itself.

If you truly want a single payer system to be implemented, the best course of action would be to recognize the failings of Obamacare as soon as possible and abort it before it becomes too big of a money sink to let it fail.

reply to post by AlienScience


Why do do always accuse those that don't agree with you of being republican? I vote for the best person, period. I just don't like this sorry excuse of a healthcare plan that was thought up by an incompetent president. It will fail, because it is a royal mess. and sooner is better than later.

marg6043
reply to post by AlienScience

 

Actually if Obama crap fail that I know is going to happen, it will be lots of legislation from the Obama site to try to fix the problems and save face, creating more mess and chaos in the process, after the failure is inevitable, and lost of tax dollars wasted and abused, the Republic rats will come out with their version of the health care crap and more waste and abuse of tax dollars will continue.

Because after all when you have big interest money in politics nothing is going to be for the benefit of the public and tax payer

And that is a fact that I can bank.

And what are these mysterious other options?

Oh that's right, neither you nor anyone else can come up with any other logical solution besides the ACA or single payer.

There is no going back to our old broken system...so we either make the ACA work or we make the logical step to go to single payer like the rest of the developed world.

reply to post by Krazysh0t


I do want a single payer system...but the ignorant conservatives cry socialism at that thought.

So there is only one way to show them that a single payer system is the only way to move forward and that is by showing them that other options won't work. The ACA is a bandaid until we get to single payer. The only other option the Republicans put up were "tort reform" and "sell insurance across state lines"...neither of those help the patients...they help the doctors and the insurance companies.

There is no other way besides single payer. But I won't cheer for the failure of this bandaid, because the failure of this bandaid means a lot of low income families not having quality healthcare.

So whether you like the ACA or not, to cheer for it to fail is just the lowest form of partisan hackery I have ever seen. You want people to suffer so you can say it failed. Instead of hoping that it works out for the time period between now and when we can get to a modern single payer system.


And your Hospital link...doesn't say these hospitals are changing their plans because of the ACA...this is just the insurances that they accept...period. These policies have most likely been in affect for a long time...not just due to the ACA. This is due to contracts between insurance companies and hospitals to be preferred providers or "in network" providers. This is nothing new...the ACA was never designed to force hospitals to accept all insurance plans...only to provide people with insurance. This is why when you shop for insurance it is required for you to give your address or at least your zipcode so they can find plans that are accepted in your area. Again...this is nothing new...just more hype by the right wing. By the way, you shouldn't use another ATS thread as a "source"...LOL.

elouina
reply to post by AlienScience

 

Why do do always accuse those that don't agree with you of being republican? I vote for the best person, period. I just don't like this sorry excuse of a healthcare plan that was thought up by an incompetent president. It will fail, because it is a royal mess. and sooner is better than later.

It's not based on if people agree with me or not, it is based on what their own views are.

I don't know who you vote for, I don't care...but what I do know is that your views and opinions line up almost 99% with the Republican parties official platform.

Call yourself what you want, but ideological, you are a Republican 100%.

AlienScience

elouina
reply to post by AlienScience

 

Why do do always accuse those that don't agree with you of being republican? I vote for the best person, period. I just don't like this sorry excuse of a healthcare plan that was thought up by an incompetent president. It will fail, because it is a royal mess. and sooner is better than later.

It's not based on if people agree with me or not, it is based on what their own views are.

I don't know who you vote for, I don't care...but what I do know is that your views and opinions line up almost 99% with the Republican parties official platform.

Call yourself what you want, but ideological, you are a Republican 100%.

This probably the dumbest assumption I've ever seen someone make about someone else's political affiliation. There are more party platforms in our country than just two. Not to mention everyone has their own opinions and some people just may not align with any political platform. Just because they happen to side with the Republicans on these issues doesn't mean they agree 100% with the Republican political platform. This is why I've grown to despise debating with Democrats like you. You guys always assume this us versus them mentality. I'm Libertarian by the way. There are plenty of Republican concepts that I don't agree with (abortion, trickle down economics, drug laws to name a few), yet you probably just assumed I was Republican while I was talking to you. Though I'm sure I've told you my political affiliation before. Wait until we have another Republican president (with the way things are going I'd say 2016), you'll see me aligning with your opinions more often then not. You know why? Because I understand that both the Democrats and Republicans are equally corrupt and incapable of fixing anything in this country.

AlienScience
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

I do want a single payer system...but the ignorant conservatives cry socialism at that thought.

So there is only one way to show them that a single payer system is the only way to move forward and that is by showing them that other options won't work. The ACA is a bandaid until we get to single payer. The only other option the Republicans put up were "tort reform" and "sell insurance across state lines"...neither of those help the patients...they help the doctors and the insurance companies.

There is no other way besides single payer. But I won't cheer for the failure of this bandaid, because the failure of this bandaid means a lot of low income families not having quality healthcare.

So whether you like the ACA or not, to cheer for it to fail is just the lowest form of partisan hackery I have ever seen. You want people to suffer so you can say it failed. Instead of hoping that it works out for the time period between now and when we can get to a modern single payer system.

Your whole post can be summed up like this: "The ends justify the means, and I'm ok with that."

reply to post by Krazysh0t

This probably the dumbest assumption I've ever seen someone make about someone else's political affiliation. There are more party platforms in our country than just two. Not to mention everyone has their own opinions and some people just may not align with any political platform. Just because they happen to side with the Republicans on these issues doesn't mean they agree 100% with the Republican political platform. This is why I've grown to despise debating with Democrats like you. You guys always assume this us versus them mentality. I'm Libertarian by the way. There are plenty of Republican concepts that I don't agree with (abortion, trickle down economics, drug laws to name a few), yet you probably just assumed I was Republican while I was talking to you. Though I'm sure I've told you my political affiliation before. Wait until we have another Republican president (with the way things are going I'd say 2016), you'll see me aligning with your opinions more often then not. You know why? Because I understand that both the Democrats and Republicans are equally corrupt and incapable of fixing anything in this country.

Oh...a libertarian huh?

Did you support Ron Paul...like all the other "libertarians" did? You know...Ron Paul...the life long Republican?

reply to post by Krazysh0t

Your whole post can be summed up like this: "The ends justify the means, and I'm ok with that."

Actually it would be more accurate to say, "The means should be as painless as possible to get to the ends".

But clearly you didn't comprehend my post.

AlienScience
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Oh...a libertarian huh?

Did you support Ron Paul...like all the other "libertarians" did? You know...Ron Paul...the life long Republican?

I voted for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate, if you must know. So check your vitriol at the door.

Krazysh0t

AlienScience
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Oh...a libertarian huh?

Did you support Ron Paul...like all the other "libertarians" did? You know...Ron Paul...the life long Republican?

I voted for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate, if you must know. So check your vitriol at the door.

I didn't ask who you voted for...I asked if you supported Ron Paul.

Nice dodge though.

AlienScience
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Your whole post can be summed up like this: "The ends justify the means, and I'm ok with that."

Actually it would be more accurate to say, "The means should be as painless as possible to get to the ends".

But clearly you didn't comprehend my post.

No, I got it pretty well.

Means: Implement a system that totally destroys the current health care system so there is nothing to go back to. Make it so that the new thing is so unsustainable that it is destined to crash. While this is going on cause more Americans distress by having them lose their insurance or pay more for it than were suffering under the old system.

Ends: Once system crashes, implement single payer solution. Look like a hero to the masses for fixing a problem that you orchestrated.

In other words, ends justify the means. I see you realize the connotations that go with subscribing to this philosophy since you are trying to distance yourself from it by using double speak. But I can see through it.

AlienScience

Krazysh0t

AlienScience
reply to post by Krazysh0t

 

Oh...a libertarian huh?

Did you support Ron Paul...like all the other "libertarians" did? You know...Ron Paul...the life long Republican?

I voted for Gary Johnson, the Libertarian candidate, if you must know. So check your vitriol at the door.

I didn't ask who you voted for...I asked if you supported Ron Paul.

Nice dodge though.

Dodge what? I was under the impression that the person you voted for was the person you supported. Why else would I vote for him? Ron Paul listed himself as a Republican, this caused me to distance myself from him. I inherently don't trust anyone with an (R) or (D) next to their name.

reply to post by Krazysh0t

No, I got it pretty well.

Means: Implement a system that totally destroys the current health care system so there is nothing to go back to. Make it so that the new thing is so unsustainable that it is destined to crash. While this is going on cause more Americans distress by having them lose their insurance or pay more for it than were suffering under the old system.

Ends: Once system crashes, implement single payer solution. Look like a hero to the masses for fixing a problem that you orchestrated.

In other words, ends justify the means. I see you realize the connotations that go with subscribing to this philosophy since you are trying to distance yourself from it by using double speak. But I can see through it.

No, you didn't get it well at all...you are letting your own assumptions creep into what I posted.


Means: Implement a system that while not perfect will be a much better system than what we have until a time that we can get on a modern single payer system.

Ends: Once enough of the ignorant Conservatives that equate single payer with socialism die off...we can move to a single payer system.


It's a bandaid, that is all it is. The actual solution is single payer...the ACA is a bandaid until we get there...and we will get there one way or the other. Right wingers that are cheering for this to fail, like yourself, seem to be unknowingly speeding up the process to single payer by doing all they can to make the ACA fail.

Yes, our old system is no longer viable to go back to...and that is a good thing. Do you honestly think our old system was a good thing that you would want to go back to?

reply to post by dashen


Because it is the Govt.

Don't know what else needs to be said.

The Govt, or just about any member of, could screw up a wet dream.

reply to post by AlienScience


That is a nicely sugar coated way of looking at it. I'm not really sure who the PPACA is helping out. Well except for the pre-existing conditions people and the poor. So basically the people who are high insurance risks and people who will require a subsidy. Since neither of these two types of people are footing the bill for this, someone else has to. The middle class. Which has been reflected in higher premiums and copays.

So now the middle class is being FORCED to buy health insurance and if they need to use it, they can't because they cannot afford the deductible. Therefore are faced with bankruptcy. So your "bandaid" is more akin to a a straight up whipping of America's backside then your solution is applying ointment and antibiotics to the injuries caused by the whipping. Ends justifying the means. No matter how you spin it, that is EXACTLY what Obamacare is and what you are suggesting.

I know you are going to keep arguing with me that I'm wrong, but you are really just lying to yourself. The proof is in the pudding, I gave you a list of many of the failings of Obamacare earlier, but this one I can attest to personally. I'm a healthy young person and I'd have to pay an extra $100 a month for health insurance and a $5000 deductible with no subsidy. I currently pay $100/mo with my work paying my deductible, but is only if my work's insurance doesn't get dropped or increases their price thanks AGAIN to Obamacare. I cannot afford $200 per month with a $5000 deductible and frankly, I just won't buy it and pay the penalty while I can. There are many more people just like me that this law is counting on signing up to make it fiscally solvent (7 million according to Obama), we need something like 32,000 a day from according to the article I linked to earlier and last I checked the 6 that enrolled on the opening day are nowhere near that number.

reply to post by elouina


I bet it is GW's fault. Has to be the fault of a Bush.


This is one of the biggest enslaving debacles of our time.

Govt failure at it's best. A large price tag for something that most don't wont, which are now forced to get.

Got love tyranny.

reply to post by AlienScience

Hate to tell you this, but it isn't just the "website" that is a mess.
Nice try though.

And to think, the targeted audience for this crap bucket bill, is the group of people that view failures of websites as one of the largest ways for failures of the company/program behind said site.


Where is the crashing and burning emoticon when you need it?