Democrats Scramble to Distance Themselves from Obamacare

Running like little cockroaches... Who would of ever thought????

reply to post by MystikMushroom


If there's any justice at all, they'll get chucked.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


This is why I can't even take the "Small Government" types in Washington seriously. They feel that it is a perfectly acceptable use of money to have these symbolic votes, like the dozens and dozens they have had to repeal ACA.

reply to post by MichaelPMaccabee


That's because most of the "Small Government" types in Washington (I assume you mean Republicans) are really just playing their assigned role of loyal opposition. They want the same thing as the Democrats. There are very few who actually put their money where their mouth is.

Never take a Xuenchan thread seriously. He likes to throw in some statements/links and then retreat to a safe distance and watch the mayhem.

reply to post by AngryCymraeg


That is why I love his threads, regardless of you feelings I think they are great and open to debate, debunking and whatever you want to do with them.

When I don't like a thread op I ignore it.

AngryCymraeg
Never take a Xuenchan thread seriously. He likes to throw in some statements/links and then retreat to a safe distance and watch the mayhem.

I'm right here.....

watching !!

If I were you, I would take these threads very seriously !!

Especially the ones you comment on !!

Your presence always makes me know that nerves are being struck !!

reply to post by xuenchen


Afterall, it is all true....



Love your threads by the way!

xuenchen

AngryCymraeg
Never take a Xuenchan thread seriously. He likes to throw in some statements/links and then retreat to a safe distance and watch the mayhem.

I'm right here.....

watching !!

If I were you, I would take these threads very seriously !!

Especially the ones you comment on !!

Your presence always makes me know that nerves are being struck !!

Lol, yes, I know you old fox!

Eight people out of 252. That's practically a title wave.

Here's some more "fast talk" from 2009...

In 2009, Sen. Jeanne (D-NH) Shaheen said the following on the floor of the U.S. Senate: “One common myth that we’ve heard is that health reform is a government takeover of our healthcare system. This is simply not true… Under the current legislation, everyone will have the freedom to keep their healthcare plan if they like it.”

Flashback: Senate Democrats Echoed Obama's Insurance Promise

Incredible !!

Even a chart to confirm the BeeEss....
"Shaheen In 2009: "Everyone Will Have The Freedom To Keep Their Health Plan If They Like It." "

reply to post by xuenchen


Well that as we know now was a lie, or it wasn't, well it depends from which side you are looking at it

When it was obvious that insurance holders were dropping their policies and leaving people without insurance and to fry on the Obama exchange it was not because they were going bankrupted or anything else.

The excuse like many here that defend the Obamacrap is because the insurance were not up to the ACA "requirements", well they took advantage of that littler fact and it was actually true, you can still used your present "insurance company" and I mean company but not your insurance policy because now under the ACA those old insurance policies needed to be "upgraded" to fall under the ACA "requirements" with a littler twist, they are more expensive

So, yes Obama lie but did he?

Major insurance holders like Blue cross and Blue shield are joining the bandwagon of sending letters of insurance policies are being ‘discontinued’ all over the nation, in order to be able to sell expensive Upgraded insurance under ACA, because after all insurance will have something in them that will conflict with ACA.

How convenient.

So if your policy used to have high deductibles in order to be less expensive now you will have choice of a lower deductibles but with higher premiums.

Is always loopholes when it comes to laws and ACA is no exempted.

People are getting screwed either way.

xuenchen

Kaploink

They are distancing themselves/criticising the flawed roll out. That's very different from distancing themselves from Obamacare. The title of the article is nothing more than link bait.

edit on 31-10-2013 by Kaploink because: (no reason given)

Ah Yes.

But everything in an election is all about *Perception* isn't it.

What do you really think the average person will *SEE* ?

The Democrats who are up for election are some of the very ones that voted "Yes" with PPACA.

That list will be widely published next year.

No doubt. I think they honestly thought that by this point, we'd all love it so much that they'd be handed a gold key to the Capitol for life.

reply to post by xuenchen


Which of them will be first to pull a Kerry '04:

"I said you could keep your healthcare plan if you liked it, until I said you couldn't."

sealing
Yeah this ol' health care for all crap has failed so miserably
in other countries.... Wait..what's that? People all over the world have
loved not going bankrupt because of medical procedures ?
That alone is more than enough reason to see this tiny tiny tiny step
towards healthcare fairness through.

I knew,just like when the last elections neared, that as the affordable care act
grew closer, the propaganda of billionaires with all of their crazy made up stories
would hit the news in full force. When Obama was elected we were told
"Grandmas were to be laying in the streets, sharia law
would replace the constitution and Black Panther daycares would indoctrinate
your children. Those beret wearing kidos would then take their parents firearms.."

There should be an entire forum dedicated to OBAMA'S GONNA....
Because that man sure has been charged with a lot of "GONNA's "

edit on 31-10-2013 by sealing because: Grammar

edit on 31-10-2013 by sealing because: Grammar again

Now instead of going broke because of medical procedures, you will go bankrupt over the deductable.

$10,000 deductable with $100 a month payment.

Excuse me but if someone can afford a $10,000 deductable then they could have afforded regular insurance.

A website that costs a $1,000,000,000 and counting, and it doesn't even work properly.

17 trillion dollar deficit and growing every second.

People can't even afford rent and utilities. Now they are forced to pay another bill and hope like hell they get it back on their tax check.

Tell me again, why is this a good idea?

The bad system of delivery, due to all the poor coding, is irrelevent compared to prices being outrageous, for example 800 dollars a month for a single parent, and I asked in shock what single parent, or couple even, has 800 dollars EXTRA a month? That would be more like the accountant set, with the other spouse working. And of course savings, go to things like saving for house, repairs, which do exist, upgrades/improvements, children's educations and needs, and helping the grandchildren even. They don't go to rich corporate elites endless pockets. Those guys need to be imprison for what they are attempting to do.

Who has 800 dollars extra, a month? And payments of 8000 dollars to be made after a couple of doctor visits, ie your tounsels out, paid out of pocket first?

And you guys are shafted into believing this is health care? Its NOT.

Now they're embarrassed over the delivery system. That is peanuts. ITS THE PRICES AND MONEY OUT OF POCKET THAT IS OUTRAGEOUS AND THEY SHOULD ALL BE VOTED OUT OF OFFICE.

reply to post by Unity_99


Precisely. Most people in this economy do not have extra money laying around. Most people live paycheck to paycheck, that's a fact. Why do they live paycheck to paycheck? Because before the disaster of 2007-2008 really hit home, people were slightly better-off and were already living somewhat beyond their means.

When their paychecks shrunk in 2008 by getting their salaries or hours cut, or lost their jobs, their budgets shrunk while they tried to maintain the same standard of living they had before that pay-cut. If they had little extra then, they seriously have no extras now. A simple thing like getting tires changed on a car costs around $600.00 to $800.00. God forbid anything else goes wrong with the car that's taking you to work. If you have some savings, those savings are going toward home and transportation maintenance as well as school for oneself or the kids.

The less they spend on luxury services like eating out, going for a massage, movies, buying new cars, furniture, accessories, etc. etc. the more people are losing their jobs as restaurants and small businesses can't retain/support their full workforce without going bankrupt. So then more people have less than they had before. Paying $230.00 a month with a $5,000.00 deductible for a healthy single person is excessive. That's food, electricity, gas, what little enjoyment is left, etc. Paying $800.00 with a $5,000.00 deductible for a healthy family is an additional rent payment every month!

So who then is this affordable for exactly? Only those who make less than $20,000.00 a year. Everyone else making more is screwed. Keep in mind that $20,000.00 in Texas and $20,000.00 in California is a big difference in standard of living.

The only way this becomes affordable for people is if they take their living standards down a notch or two, or five. If you're living in a nice two-bedroom apartment, you'll have to downsize to a single room or studio apartment instead. If you live in a nice neighborhood, time to go look for a living situation in a less desirable neighborhood where rent is cheaper. If you're used to shopping at Whole Foods, time to start shopping at Fresh & Easy or the $0.99 store. If you enjoyed those $8.00 burgers at your local restaurant, time to start going to McDonalds and ordering from the $1-$5 menu instead. Got a brand new car with a $250.00 registration fee? Get yourself a 1995 wreck for $80.00 registration fees instead. See how that works? Soon enough everyone becomes equal (ly miserable)!

By the way..I'm not entirely opposed to nationalized healthcare so long as it is run by COMPETENT people who's brains QUALIFY for the job, not the President's cousin or Vice president's best friend's daughter who needed a job. First we need to get the HELL out of all the conflicts across the seas, reign in excessive spending EVERYWHERE, hire only competent people, get rid of a few draconian taxes and then put the money we save with these actions toward paying for peoples healthcare. Billions, even trillions of dollars are going to waste. That waste could have paid for everything. I'm not a fan of welfare states, but I bet you if we did start cutting things left and right ($20.00 muffins at Government parties, $15.00 paper plates in Afghanistan, 600 billion dollar websites) we would be able to provide everyone with anything they could ever need as far as healthcare and welfare goes.

reply to post by Unity_99


In this crap economy, I have been stuck with the same part-time job for the last 5 years. Believe me, I've been looking for full-time, but nothing has come along that fits our economic requirements to make ends meet. Right now, this part-time job lets us stay a tiny bit ahead or at least break even.

Now, we know the magic number salary for true economic freedom.

Now, here comes Obamacare into our lives. This year, we are safe because we likely fall under the big business exemption, but the average premium rate per person is roughly $200-$300 and I have pre-existing chronic which would make ours worse. So, when the employer mandate kicks in next year if we get dumped into Obamacare, I have to find that magical, mythical full-time job at the salary which was previously for economic freedom just for us to pay our monthly premium and hold even where we are now.

In other words, I will go to work full-time just pay for "affordable" health care which in all probability will be a high deductible plan which means we will pay through the nose just for the privilege of losing our doctor (he already said they aren't doing Obamacare) and paying full price not to even come close to meeting a deductible that's sky high. I might now even get to keep my neurologist (haven't checked with him yet).

And we'll be no better off economically than we are now, but we will kick over into a higher tax bracket.

reply to post by ketsuko

And we'll be no better off economically than we are now, but we will kick over into a higher tax bracket.

There is another darn good reason why the underground economy is alive and well. As 'Official jobs' disappear creative financing becomes popular. This is why originally O bamacare Legislation Mandates 1099′s For Every And All Business Transactions In Excess of $600!!

..Businesses will have to file 1099 forms with both the IRS and send them to the company that provided the services or sold the product for every expenditure that exceeds $600. If you react to this sentence the way my wife, who has run a small business did, you are saying, “that can’t be right, 1099s are only for contract employees.”...

...that’s right, trading 1099 forms, because at the same time, Joe’s Plumbing will also be receiving 1099 forms from every one of their business customers who spent more than $600 with them over the course of the year, which they will be required to keep and reconcile against their books.

Do you have any wonder why Joe’s Plumbing might be more than a tad bit irritated? The new Obama health care takeover just took a guy with a pipe wrench, pvc pipe and a plunger and forced him into Dante’s eighth circle of hell – tracking and filing IRS paperwork....

If you use a credit card they will file the form for you but you still had to get the the tax identification numbers for everyone. LINK

This is not just happening in the USA according to the International Monetary Fund: Hiding in the Shadows The Growth of the Underground Economy

This site has a link to a PDFby Edgar Feige, a widely cited Professor Emeritus of Economics at University of Wisconsin-Madison. His GRAPH shows around 23 to 24% Unreported income.

One of the most reliable economic statistics is the amount of U.S. currency in circulation held outside of depository intuitions by the public. By the end of 2010, U.S. currency in circulation with the public had risen to $920 billion dollars, amounting to $2950 for every man, woman and child in the country. Over the past decades we have witnessed a host of cash-saving financial innovations, leading to widespread predictions of the advent of a “cashless society”. But contrary to these expectations, the demand for U.S. dollars continues to rise and we remain awash in cash. Over the last twenty years, real per capita currency holdings increased by 79 percent and currency as a fraction of the M1 money supply rose from 30 percent to 49 percent.

To put these figures in perspective, they imply that the average American's bulging wallet holds 91 pieces of U.S. paper currency, consisting of: 31 one dollar bills; 7 fives; 5 tens; 21 twenties; 4 fifties and 23 one hundred dollar bills. Few of us will recognize ourselves as “average” citizens. Clearly, these amounts of currency are not normally necessary for those of us simply wishing to make payments when neither credit/debit cards nor checks are accepted or convenient to use.

Federal Reserve surveys (Avery et al. 1986, 1987) of household currency usage found that U.S. residents admitted to holding less than 10 percent of the nation's currency supply. Businesses (Anderson, 1977; Sumner, 1990) admitted to holding 5 percent. It seems that the whereabouts of roughly 85 percent of the nation's currency supply is unknown. This anomalous finding suggests that the “currency enigma” (Feige 1989, 1994) and the problem of “missing currency” (Sprenkel, 1993) is still very much with us.

The currency enigma has both a stock and a flow dimension. First we must determine who holds the outstanding stock of U.S. cash. Specifically, how much of this currency is abroad, (the dollarization hypothesis) and how much is held domestically (the underground economy hypothesis) by citizens reluctant to admit to their true cash holdings? The flow issue concerns the amount of cash payments sustained by that missing currency. If half of the missing currency is hoarded and the other half is used as a medium of exchange, turning over at an average velocity of between 30 and 50 transactions per year, (Feige, 1989a) the missing circulating currency stock would give rise to a flow of “missing payments” of an order of magnitude comparable to the entire GNP of the United States....

Another economist calculated 3/4 of the worlds GDP was within the Underground economy.

reply to post by crimvelvet


Yes, I know. I did some freelance proofreading work on the side, and I had to get my own tax number for it. No cash for me, not if I wanted to work for above the board businesses anyway.