Some U.S. Cities Have Higher Gun Violence Than ENTIRE Nations — Check This Map

crazyewok

ActuallyActuary
[Gun violence is a weasel term, designed to subliminally tie guns and violence together.

Im sorry this made me LOL

subliminally tie really?


GUNS ARE DESIGNED FOR FREAKING VIOLNENCE

Im neutral on the gun debate but really? Least tell the bloody truth.

The bloody truth is that guns are designed to give strength to those lacking. Laugh all you want at frail elderly unable to protect themselves from violence with a gun because of a funny guy like you outlawed the only effective tool for protection.
I don't find this matter funny, sorry that you do.

reply to post by Cabin

Dude ... again ... (and for the last time .. I'm done with this)
1 - the demographics of Europe are different than the USA.
2 - this isn't a police state
3 - people have a right to protect themselves
4 - criminals DO NOT FOLLOW THE LAW
5 - the cities with severe gun penalties actually end up having higher crime rates
6 - and mostly ... WE ARE NOT EUROPE AND DO NOT WANT TO BE EUROPE.

I'm done.

Cabin

NavyDoc

And DC has a near total gun ban, as does Brazil.
South Africa has very strict gun control, as does Mexico, Panama, Ecuador, Guyana. Mexico has some of the strictest gun control in the world.

Chicago has some of the strictest gun control in the states.

Thus, I do not think that those statistics say what you want them to say, IE, legal gun ownership equals crime.

Secondly, "gun crime rates" as disingenuous because they neglect crime from other causes and seem to imply that crime is okay if it is not caused by a gun, which is pretty disgusting IMHO. The murder rate in the UK is higher now than it was before the gun bans took effect, but Brits seem to be okay with that as long as it was not a gun involved.

edit on 29-10-2013 by NavyDoc because: (no reason given)

Gun Control works as long as there is nearly no way of getting guns inside. It is not easy to get guns to some area, when every person on the border is searched through. Some people might get it through, but due to large risk, the black market prices go very high.

You are bringing examples of countries where border control is inexistent or extremely corrupt and crime is flourishing due to poverty.

Washington gun control would work, when the only way of getting there would be through border control.

What is the point of trying to limit something, when a person can drive hundred miles and get the product legally...

Only national gun laws works, otherwise these are ineffective. When even one EU nation decided to lose gun laws, gun violence would increase in every EU nation due to open borders.

US has higher non-firearm homicide rates than UK. I have talked to many British people about the crime wave in 60s and to be honest, I have not heard an Englishman bringing up the guns argument. I have only heard American pro-gun people trying to use it as an argument. There were other reasons for the crime going up - it was a mix of all different things - drugs trade flourishing which added a lot to organised crime, lower class becoming poorer due to less blue-collar jobs, weakening education levels among the poor, stagnated salaries. Although currently UK has reached back to such levels. Despite these considered high in local standards when compared to US, the total amount of murders in UK is merely a third of how many people are killed in US with firearms. When UK gun violence is also counted in, the total UK homicide rates equals to US non-firearm murder rates. More people are shot accidentally to death in US than the total amount of people killed with guns in UK... All these stats were per capita, which means population sizes were considered.

edit on 29-10-2013 by Cabin because: (no reason given)

Sorry, the war on drugs proves that a complete ban on something will not prevent the criminals from accessing something. Even an island like the UK has illegal guns coming over to go into the hands of the criminals. Increased gun control in the US, with a 3,000 mile border with Mexico, will not stop guns getting into the wrong hands just as the WOD has not stopped drug use one iota. The only people you disarm are the law abiding.

LOL. So you appropriately point out the causes of increased crime in the UK--the drug trade, poor education, lack of jobs, lack of a good homelife, etc, but you completely ignore those causes of crimes where the US is concerned and think it must be the guns. Crime is a people problem. Unless you change the people, you will not change crime one iota.

I agree with Cabin.
Since living in Germany for several decades I have never seen someone use a gun, never seen someone owning one, never had one on my hands and never was a witness or victim to a gun crime. That I am proud of. The European Union is a great example of how strict gun laws don't lead to tyrannical governments taking over or an increase in crime rates/homicides. In fact, quite the opposite.

I am not saying that the US government should grab all your guns, but they should definitely implement more restrictions and regulations i.m.o.

PhoenixOD
Just remember guns don't kill people..they just make it really, really easy.

So do poisons, knives, swords, axes, Molotov cocktails and frypan-loaded PMS'.

We are a species very good at tool applications

Cabin
reply to post by FlyersFan

 

No, because social safety nets work well in preventing crime, although certain crime of course happens in more dense and poor districts. Even poor can live quite well, get good healthcare and strong education in most European countries

Population densities in largest European cities are higher than in US cities. Paris, Athens.Barcelona population densities for example are signifcantly higher than in any US city.

REALLY?????? NEW YORK HAS ALMOST 20,000,000 PEOPLE! 8th largest city by population in the world!

Los Angeles has a higher population than Paris.

10 cities here with higher populations than Barcelona.

America has the 3rd largest population in the world!

We have something like 1500 metropolitan areas!

Why are you still posting?

Clairaudience
I agree with Cabin.
Since living in Germany for several decades I have never seen someone use a gun, never seen someone owning one, never had one on my hands and never was a witness or victim to a gun crime. That I am proud of. The European Union is a great example of how strict gun laws don't lead to tyrannical governments taking over or an increase in crime rates/homicides. In fact, quite the opposite.

I am not saying that the US government should grab all your guns, but they should definitely implement more restrictions and regulations i.m.o.

edit on October2013201329-0500fCDT09America/Chicago9 by Clairaudience because: (no reason given)

Here,

Learn something. The seven stages of Concealed Carry.

1. The Wyatt Earp Syndrome:
You walk with a swagger, looking for trouble because you’re the fastest gun in town.

2. The Intimidator Syndrome:
You don’t take crap from anyone; and if someone looks at you wrong, you casually let the wind blow your coat open to expose your “equalizer”.

3. Holy Crap Syndrome:
Sometime during your Intimidator phase, you realize that people aren’t as intimidated as they used to be; in fact, sometimes guys look at you as a good source for their next “piece”. (Maybe they spent a few years in prison practicing disarming techniques with other cons – so to him, you’re fresh meat – he’ll just kick your ass and take your gun.)

4. Slap in the Face Syndrome:
You realize that one-day, you may have to take a life in defense of yourself or someone else. Can I really do it? Will I make all the right moves? Can I handle myself in a life or death confrontation? (It’s at this stage that many people stop carrying altogether or only carry when they feel it’s REALLY necessary. High profile mass shootings usually trigger this stage.)

5. Sheep Dog Syndrome:
OK, you’ve read through the pile of gun magazines that your wife has been nagging you to throw out and you make the decision to get more training. You want to have the proper knowledge, be confident, and do everything correctly if the stuff hits the fan in your presence. (This phase kicks in a month or two after you’ve thought about the high profile mass shooting.)

6. Do I Have The Right Gun Syndrome:
Does my 9mm have enough stopping power? Should I buy a bigger gun? What about a .40 caliber? No, I’ll go with a .45. It has combat-proven stopping power.

7. Just Another Tool Syndrome:
Going shopping with the wife? Grab your keys, slip your gun into your holster, grab your hat, and grab your jacket. You do it so quickly and efficiently, your wife doesn’t even notice that you’re packing every time you leave the house. Nor does she even notice you slipping your gun into the drawer of the stand right next to your easy chair when you return.

Best part is that the sheep at the mall, restaurant, and gas station where you stopped during your outing had no idea that you were one of probably several sheepdogs in their mist that day.

usa carry . com / Seven stages of concealed carry

The USA is fighting to keep it's stage 7. Just Another Tool Syndrome: status.

Europe is Stage 1. The Wyatt Earp Syndrome: at best. Quit projecting your gun mad cowboy image onto us. I thought the schools over there were better than that.

Mike

NavyDoc

Kind of like the anti gun freedom types who pick the statistics without understanding behind them.

The Swiss have a greater per capita gun ownership than the US but less crime. The Czech republic has more liberal gun laws than the US, including concealed carry permits, and has less crime. Vermont has no state gun control and there you can even carry a handgun concealed without a license yet it has the lowest crime rate in the northeast.

Thus, logically, other factors than gun ownership must be involved...factors that those who seek to disarm their fellow man choose to ignore.

Swiss have 2 times lower per capita gun ownership than US, although still very high compared to other EU nations. This largely lies in the law requiring every man under 31 1) go to military 2)have a gun at home or armoury in the city. Bullets are required being kept sealed and gun in the locker. It is the defense system of the country as it is a small one. After becoming 31, you have to get licence, which requires having specialised locker, mental health and background check, every 3 years renewal. No more than 3 guns per person.

In Czech for getting gun licence you need 1) Oral and written exam on gun safety 2) Practical exam on gun safety and target hitting 3) Paper from GP declaring the mental state of the people wanting the licence as being stabil. This often requires visits to psychiatrist. 4) Personal reliability hs to be met - criminal history matters, alcohol abusers can not get gun. Licence renewal every 5 years.
Despite the easy access to guns, only 16 per 100 compared to 94 per 100 in US choose to get a firearm.

As you can see the laws are not that soft compared to most US states.

reply to post by Clairaudience

I agree with Cabin.
Since living in Germany for several decades I have never seen someone use a gun, never seen someone owning one, never had one on my hands and never was a witness or victim to a gun crime. That I am proud of. The European Union is a great example of how strict gun laws don't lead to tyrannical governments taking over or an increase in crime rates/homicides. In fact, quite the opposite.

You know something, I have always lived in a gun culture. I live in the rural South (gun-totin redneck if you will) and from the time a young man/girl can hold a rifle many us are taught how to shoot, gun safety and proper maintenance and handling of firearms. I have always been around people using guns for hunting and sport.

I am also proud to say that I have never been the victim of or witness to any gun crime in America.

So I really don't see what your example is supposed to mean.

I am not saying that the US government should grab all your guns, but they should definitely implement more restrictions and regulations i.m.o.

Such as?

Cabin

NavyDoc

Kind of like the anti gun freedom types who pick the statistics without understanding behind them.

The Swiss have a greater per capita gun ownership than the US but less crime. The Czech republic has more liberal gun laws than the US, including concealed carry permits, and has less crime. Vermont has no state gun control and there you can even carry a handgun concealed without a license yet it has the lowest crime rate in the northeast.

Thus, logically, other factors than gun ownership must be involved...factors that those who seek to disarm their fellow man choose to ignore.

Swiss have 2 times lower per capita gun ownership than US, although still very high compared to other EU nations. This largely lies in the law requiring every man under 31 1) go to military 2)have a gun at home or armoury in the city. Bullets are required being kept sealed and gun in the locker. It is the defense system of the country as it is a small one. After becoming 31, you have to get licence, which requires having specialised locker, mental health and background check, every 3 years renewal. No more than 3 guns per person.

In Czech for getting gun licence you need 1) Oral and written exam on gun safety 2) Practical exam on gun safety and target hitting 3) Paper from GP declaring the mental state of the people wanting the licence as being stabil. This often requires visits to psychiatrist. 4) Personal reliability hs to be met - criminal history matters, alcohol abusers can not get gun. Licence renewal every 5 years.
Despite the easy access to guns, only 16 per 100 compared to 94 per 100 in US choose to get a firearm.

As you can see the laws are not that soft compared to most US states.

And yet, much laxer than the other nations in the EU with much less crime.

reply to post by Cabin


94 per 100 people in the US has a firearm?LOLOLOLOL

Why are you still posting?

reply to post by redoubt

So do poisons, knives, swords, axes, Molotov cocktails and frypan-loaded PMS'.

We are a species very good at tool applications

The whole."but , but hes doing it as well.." argument is something straight out of kindergarten.

PhoenixOD
reply to post by redoubt

 

The whole."but , but hes doing it as well.." argument is something straight out of kindergarten.

That's not an argument. It's just an questioning observation.

Why do people behave as they do and why is our society/culture becoming more and more inclined to violence, are questions we prefer not to ask because the answers would lead back to all of us. It is here that the argument begins.

reply to post by redoubt


None of those items end up with people getting shot ..which is the subject of the thread.

PhoenixOD
reply to post by redoubt

 

None of those items end up with people getting shot ..which is the subject of the thread.

If the issue is not a human one, then there is no argument to begin with because, once more, without a human pulling the trigger, guns are no more dangerous than... well, that old iron skillet.

You can take away every gun ever invented but the human condition remains and people will still kill people. Subtract one tool for the job and another will take its place. Ignoring the 'why' won't do a thing... another generation will come along and want to ban something else.

We either rise to look at ourselves square in the eyes or we keep looking for excuses why we can't.

PhoenixOD
reply to post by redoubt

 

So do poisons, knives, swords, axes, Molotov cocktails and frypan-loaded PMS'.

We are a species very good at tool applications

The whole."but , but hes doing it as well.." argument is something straight out of kindergarten.

edit on 29-10-2013 by PhoenixOD because: (no reason given)

That's not true...what he pointed out is that violence is and always has been a problem of the human condition. The inanimate object does not cause people to do evil things to each other and no ban of an inanimate object has ever changed that salient fact. People murdered each other long before guns were invented and will keep on murdering each other long after something else comes around. If you do not address the underlying character flaws, you will never reduce violence.

reply to post by PhoenixOD

The whole."but , but hes doing it as well.." argument is something straight out of kindergarten.

That statement also applies to cultures, populations, and governments. We will not follow down the path of criminalization of self defense, or even more government intrusion. No one has the power to tell me I cannot defend myself, and I will not allow anyone to try...

"if you deny people the means of self defense, then you have denied them the right to self defense."

I am assuming that your location of Ireland is correct in your avatar.

I just Googled Ireland violence.

All I can say is .......lol.....lol...lol

Please......start reforming your own country before you try to pick on the US.

You guys are serously messed up over there.

Seriously. Im still laughing...

I recall a debate on this very issue some time back... it could have been here but I do not remember for sure.

It began with the argument that guns were invented for the sole purpose of killing people. This was countered with the argument that they were first used for hunting.
From there, it squirreled around a bit to cover knives, that began as tools for cleaning animals hides and preparing food but also for defense. Swords are very militaristic but they evolved from the shorter blades just mentioned. The bayonet? Just an old knife on the end of a rifle.
Oh... then there was the crossbow (and various other derivatives) which was invented strictly for the military but it evolved from the basic bow and arrow which was a hunting tool.

It was finally agreed that the only weapon ever devised from scratch to do harm to other people was the siege machine or catapult and it was mainly for taking down walls and stone structures.

What this all lead back to... once again, was our specie's knack for taking most any tool and turning it into a weapon... something to apply against our own kind.

This both magnifies and clarifies the problem we don't ever address; ourselves.