Will we ever know the true nature of reality?

There is no inside perception or outside perception - there is just perceiving.

It is one thing - not two.

Itisnowagain
There is no inside perception or outside perception - there is just perceiving.

This means that everything we perceive is inside our perception.

Aphorism
reply to post by TheNewSense

 

Thes are valid questions however they do not refute the simple truth that nothing exists outside our perception.

I will answer as soon as you refute the original comment by providing an example of something that exists outside of perception, or admit that you can't.

Seems fair to me.

Everything exists outside of perception. In order to perceive anything, there must be something to be perceived. If there is nothing there to perceive, then there is nothing that exists in perception, and therefor, no perception.

Yeah, like ''Chaos Theory stuff", we put order to Chaos that's outside our perception. Bring order from chaos...blah blah blah.. then perceive it.

reply to post by TheNewSense


To say things exist in perception is saying there is a place we call perception where everything exists. There is no such place. Perceiving is an action, not a place where things exist. Perception is an ability, not a magical land where things exist. Now, what has the ability to perform this action and ability?

reply to post by Aphorism

Everything exists outside of perception. In order to perceive anything, there must be something to be perceived. If there is nothing there to perceive, then there is nothing that exists in perception, and therefor, no perception.

Please give an example of something that exists outside of our perception.

reply to post by TheNewSense


Perception isn't a place where things exist. Please describe how perception is not an ability or action, but a place where things exist.

TheNewSense

Itisnowagain
There is no inside perception or outside perception - there is just perceiving.

This means that everything we perceive is inside our perception.

Sort of - it is all happening as what you are.
You are being all that is.

reply to post by Aphorism


Perception is the same as consciousness.

Consciousness is the only thing there is.


@ Itsnowagain above, I think we are on the same page.

reply to post by TheNewSense


Then where is this thing called consciousness? What is it? What are its properties? What is it made out of?

Surely you've seen it if it is the only thing that exists.

TheNewSense
reply to post by Aphorism

 

Everything exists outside of perception. In order to perceive anything, there must be something to be perceived. If there is nothing there to perceive, then there is nothing that exists in perception, and therefor, no perception.

Please give an example of something that exists outside of our perception.

Please give an example of something that exists outside of our perception.

We see the Sun nine minutes as it was nine minutes into the future. Travel close to light speed and do stuff, but folks can't perceive it that aren't traveling with you though you are doing it. hahaha!

TheNewSense
reply to post by Aphorism

 

Everything exists outside of perception. In order to perceive anything, there must be something to be perceived. If there is nothing there to perceive, then there is nothing that exists in perception, and therefor, no perception.

Please give an example of something that exists outside of our perception.

Please give an example of something that exists outside of our perception.

We see the Sun nine minutes as it was nine minutes into the future. Travel close to light speed and do stuff, but folks can't perceive it that aren't traveling with you though you are doing it. hahaha!

If I may... and after this, I'll butt out of this thread.

Back in high school (about 40 years ago), our science teacher passed out a sheet of paper face down on each desk. We were not to look until told.

Our instructions were to describe what we saw on it in six words or less in something like 30 seconds.

We flipped the paper and saw this...



Six words, 30 seconds.

Outcome? About 35 students replied and only a very few were identical.

Good thread... thanks

Aphorism
reply to post by TheNewSense

 

Then where is this thing called consciousness? What is it? What are its properties? What is it made out of?

Surely you've seen it if it is the only thing that exists.

I don't know.

One thing we are sure of is that nothing exists outside of it.

"Consciousness is all that exists". "Everything exists only in perception". Yet no one can show me this thing called consciousness, nor this place called "perception" where everything exists. Complete fantasy—imaginary substances and places.

Enjoy.

reply to post by RUFFREADY

We see the Sun nine minutes as it was nine minutes into the future. Travel close to light speed and do stuff, but folks can't perceive it that aren't traveling with you though you are doing it. hahaha!

You mean 9 mins in the past?

What I think you mean is still only in the perception of those that are travelling close to light speed.

reply to post by Aphorism


Yet you are still unable to name one thing that exists outside of perception whereas I can go on and on with examples of things that without a doubt exist within our perception, you can't deny this, especially on a philosophical level.

reply to post by TheNewSense

Yet you are still unable to name one thing that exists outside of perception whereas I can go on and on with examples of things that without a doubt exist within our perception, you can't deny this, especially on a philosophical level.

I already said, numerous times, everything exists outside of perception. I just named everything. I am not sure how many times I have to repeat myself to deaf ears, but I have denied your proposition to the fullest extent.

deny |diˈnī|
verb ( denies, denying, denied ) [ with obj. ]
refuse to admit the truth or existence of: they deny any responsibility for the tragedy.
• [ with two objs. ] refuse to give or grant (something requested or desired) to (someone): the inquiry was denied access to intelligence sources.
• (deny oneself) refrain from satisfying oneself: he had denied himself sexually for years.
• archaic refuse access to (someone): the servants are ordered to deny him.

To say something "exists inside of perception" is to say perception is a place things can exist in. Prove to me perception is a place things can exist, and how things exist there, and you may have an argument. Explain to me how a verb or an ability is instead a place where things exist. Until then, you have only proven that you can say "everything exists inside of perception" without providing any evidence to support that such a place even exists. Same with your "everything is consciousness", which you cannot produce a single drop of—and I'm supposed to believe this nothing is everything?

To say "everything exists inside of perception" is to say that we have already perceived everything. There is nothing left to perceive because "everything exists inside of perception". Can you honestly say you've perceived everything? Isn't the very fact that you haven't perceived everything enough proof that everything doesn't exist inside perception? Did the moon immediately pop into existence the moment you first perceived it?

Solipsism is a philosophical dead end. You're right, it is irrefutable, but then again it is also indefensible and unfalsifiable, and therefor pointless as a theory. Tell your friends and loved ones how they don't exist. Continue to talk to yourself. Pretend I and the others you speak to are illusions.

reply to post by Aphorism

Solipsism is a philosophical dead end. You're right, it is irrefutable, but then again it is also indefensible and unfalsifiable, and therefor pointless as a theory. Tell your friends and loved ones how they don't exist. Continue to talk to yourself. Pretend I and the others you speak to are illusions.

You don´t get the point and you are stuck on semantics and shortsigted arguments.

I didn´t say you, others and me don´t exist, I said they all exist within consciousness.

Until then, you have only proven that you can say "everything exists inside of perception" without providing any evidence to support that such a place even exists.

Lol are you for real? What about this world we live in along with everything in it for instance, like duh.

This all seems hard to compute for you.

reply to post by Aphorism


What do 'things' appear to exist in?

reply to post by neoholographic


Isn't the universe a part of reality? We are actually experiencing "this", this experience I'd real.


I experience therefore I exist. Hallucinations, lies, physicality, and reality - these are different but the fact that we experience cannot be denief. "This" is the reality.