Will we ever know the true nature of reality?

reply to post by TheNewSense

You do realize that the rock is something you preceive? I asked you for an example of something that exists outside of our perception.

Yes. It is necessary to perceive a rock in order to kick it.

Here I'll re-word my question in case you don't understand. Where does the perception of a rock come from?

When I jumped out of a plane and my chute opened and I floated to the ground I perceived it well into the night while drinking beer. Now, if my chute would have failed I would not perceive anything.

TheNewSense
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

- it just appears as this constant movement.

Lol, appears to whom? Who perceives it?

No one - seeing is happening.
Whatever is happening is what is being - it is always this.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

No one - seeing is happening.

And seeing is perceiving.

TheNewSense
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

No one - seeing is happening.

And seeing is perceiving.

And perception is as faulty, or imperfect, as the creature perceiving it.

TheNewSense
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

No one - seeing is happening.

And seeing is perceiving.

Is it?

Depends on the definitions or preconceived ideas about what 'perception' means. That's the difficulty with words - they are slippery.

Whatever is happening - seeing, perceiving, hearing, smelling, thoughts arising - all is just happening and no one is doing it - it all just happens.

reply to post by Aphorism

Yes. It is necessary to perceive a rock in order to kick it.

It is necessary to perceive for ANYTHING to exist.

You still have not given an example of anything that exists outside of perception, and you can't.

By now you guys should realize that it is in fact an inescapable truth. Everything we know exists is within our perception. There are no examples of anything outside our perception.

It is an inescapable truth like I said and you are silly for arguing against it.

reply to post by TheNewSense


The seer and the seen are one.

reply to post by Itisnowagain

Whatever is happening - seeing, perceiving, hearing, smelling, thoughts arising - all is just happening and no one is doing it - it all just happens.

It does not happen outside of our perception. How do you know that something happens if you can't perceive it?

Again, simple truth.

Itisnowagain
reply to post by TheNewSense

 

The seer and the seen are one.

Agreed, but the seer perceives himself therefore it is all within our perception.

TheNewSense
reply to post by Itisnowagain

 

Whatever is happening - seeing, perceiving, hearing, smelling, thoughts arising - all is just happening and no one is doing it - it all just happens.

It does not happen outside of our perception. How do you know that something happens if you can't perceive it?

Again, simple truth.

The perceiver and perceived are one.

reply to post by TheNewSense

How do you know that something happens if you can't perceive it?

This is the same as the sound of a tree falling in the forest with no one to hear it. We know it 'should' make noise but if you are not there to hear it, how do you prove it did?

Itisnowagain
reply to post by TheNewSense

 

The seer and the seen are one.

I'll drink to that!! LOL!!

I was just thinking..does a "sperm" perceive ? Does it know it's going for the egg?? Or..does it just head for it like steel to a magnet?? (just thinking)

reply to post by TheNewSense

It is necessary to perceive for ANYTHING to exist.

You still have not given an example of anything that exists outside of perception, and you can't.

By now you guys should realize that it is in fact an inescapable truth. Everything we know exists is within our perception. There are no examples of anything outside our perception.

It is an inescapable truth like I said and you are silly for arguing against it.

You keep repeating yourself, yet cannot answer my simple question. Sure keep saying it; however repetition doesn't make it true.

What is it you are perceiving? How are you perceiving? If you cannot answer these questions, then your inescapable truth is easily escapable.

reply to post by redoubt


It certainly is and it is an inescapable truth.

It is time for a new paradigm based on what is the only truth we know is real instead of looking for answers outside.

reply to post by Aphorism

What is it you are perceiving? How are you perceiving? If you cannot answer these questions, then your inescapable truth is easily escapable.

Thes are valid questions however they do not refute the simple truth that nothing exists outside our perception.

I will answer as soon as you refute the original comment by providing an example of something that exists outside of perception, or admit that you can't.

Seems fair to me.

TheNewSense
reply to post by redoubt

 

It certainly is and it is an inescapable truth.

It is time for a new paradigm based on what is the only truth we know is real instead of looking for answers outside.

Ahhh... but we don't have the foundations... at least, not yet, to know without a chance of being wrong, what the absolute truth of reality is and what is not. We are an imperfect machine and if you were to use an imperfect computer to solve a complex equation, would you be inclined to trust it beyond question?

reply to post by TheNewSense

Thes are valid questions however they do not refute the simple truth that nothing exists outside our perception.

I will answer as soon as you refute the original comment by providing an example of something that exists outside of perception, or admit that you can't.

Seems fair to me.

Everything exists outside of perception. In order to perceive anything, there must be something to be perceived. If there is nothing there to perceive, then there is nothing that exists in perception, and therefor, no perception.

redoubt

TheNewSense
reply to post by redoubt

 

It certainly is and it is an inescapable truth.

It is time for a new paradigm based on what is the only truth we know is real instead of looking for answers outside.

Ahhh... but we don't have the foundations... at least, not yet, to know without a chance of being wrong, what the absolute truth of reality is and what is not. We are an imperfect machine and if you were to use an imperfect computer to solve a complex equation, would you be inclined to trust it beyond question?

Yeah, I'll buy that. It's like you set up a long line of Domino's and their all up and good, until something hit's one and they all fall and lay down. What!

reply to post by redoubt


The logical starting point would be from what we know is true, namely that everything we know is inside of our perception, as opposed to the viewpoint that things exist outside of our perception when there is not a single piece of evidence that says that they do.