Witnesses To Roswell Book.

LEL01
reply to post by mirageman

 

I thought that would make you laugh, he even said the words "viking project" The way he went on about the size of the body bag as well, the bodies weren't put into body bags.

I found a mogul crash experiment, the replica of the sonobuoy/ radiosonde doesn't look anything like a black box to me. This is a scaled down version of the mogul, the experiment starts around 26 minutes in or 30 minutes if you want to go straight to the action.

YouTube

meteorlima, thanks for the link, I will check it out later.

ImpactoR, you should watch this experiment.

Is this the experiment where a BB gun is used to shoot the balloons? They shoot the balloons one by one causing the targets to just slowly fall to the ground? If Mogul was forced onto the ground by a storm and strong downdraft winds, it wouldn't have come slowly floating down as in that video. Also, it would have been blown across the ranch during that storm for at least a day.

The original story says Brazel came across the debris around June 14th (which is consistent with the June 4th launch of Mogul #4) and ignored it because he was in a hurry to get his rounds finished. If that was the case, having the materials exposed to the sun, dry heat, wind, and rain for a month would explain the large ripped up debris field described by both Brazel and Marcel. He later went out in early July with his son and daughter to gather up the debris. This happens to be after Kenneth Arnolds June 24, 1947 "flying saucer/disc" sighting and the rewards offered after for anyone “getting his hands on a flying disc”.

reply to post by Ectoplasm8


That's just your opinion, your belief, you don't know the facts of this story any more than the rest of us. I believe you're talking about the results of a man who was forced to lie.

You're saying it was a mogul balloon that came down in June, and you're saying it was the June 4th launch #4, the one the official report shows was never launched. I will be checking that report myself, but for now, skip to 4:25.

YouTube

Sunday July 6. Brazel told his original story to Frank Joyce, the radio presenter. I believe Brazel went to the radio station and talked to Frank Joyce after their phone conversation.

Monday July 7. Brazel told his original story to Whitmore, the owner of the radio station who recorded the interview at his home. I don't believe anyone got to hear this original story, it was confiscated on Tuesday before they could broadcast it.

Tuesday July 8. Blanchard phoned Haut and dictated the press release to him, the military original story. That's what was printed in the newspapers that day, anything that was said after this was not anyone's original story.

Tuesday July 8.
Why did the military change their story?
Why did the military confiscate the recorded interview?
Why did the military snatched Brazel and hold him for four or five days?
Why would the military switch one balloon for another?

Wednesday July 9.
Why did the military search the news offices and take any documents that were contrary to the weather balloon explanation?
Why did the military escort .Brazel to the news offices and radio stations to retract their stories?
Was General Ramey's explanation of a weather balloon not good enough?

What part of the mogul balloon is a great big egg shaped pod that needed an eighteen wheeler truck and armed guards to transport it back to the base?

reply to post by LEL01

What I do know isn't a belief or opinion, it's a fact... In 66 years, not a single piece of physical evidence from this case has ever shown up. A huge physical case where there is a supposed football field sized debris field and 4 or more alien bodies. Even with the thousands of UFO cases since, we still don't have a single piece of physical evidence. There's not even a basis in the history of this phenomena to give a real possibility that this story is true. You're dealing in a belief, I'm dealing in facts.

What part of the mogul balloon is a great big egg shaped pod that needed an eighteen wheeler truck and armed guards to transport it back to the base?

That's even a further stretch than the original story of the "flying saucer" debris field. There's even less evidence to support this portion. We're to believe an Army machine gun escorted flat bed truck drove through Main street Roswell with a partially covered egg-shaped craft? Think about how ridiculous that sounds. It defys any kind of common sense and logic for the military to have a secret alien craft and basically parade it through downtown Roswell only partially covered. Is your foundation of this belief based on the book written by the town paperboy who claimed to witness this?

reply to post by Ectoplasm8


You have one fact and you ignore the rest, if you don't think the military can keep things hidden from us, go and try getting into one of their top secret facilities.

I don't believe Tom Carey or Don Schmitt were the paperboy, who was only one of the many witnesses to this.

You're insulting me again by suggesting that what I believe is just based on reading this book. This thread is about the book not me, so I'm talking about the book and for the record it's a very good, well written book.

I believe you're judging this book without reading it, and you're judging me when you don't even know me. Should I believe you over the witnesses? No chance. To avoid derailing my thread, I won't be responding to you again.

reply to post by mirageman


My intuition tells me there is something real of out worldly origin from the whole case or topic, even from the Roswell incident and I've never trusted that case for being something of another origin until reading about the more crash sites.

reply to post by LEL01

You have one fact and you ignore the rest, if you don't think the military can keep things hidden from us, go and try getting into one of their top secret facilities.

You mean the fact there hasn't been an iota of physical evidence in 66 years in regard to this case? Or the fact that what was found was 100% consistent with the construction of RAWIN type targets of the time? Those seem to be pretty big hurdles that have yet to be resolved. They go ignored and skipped over for the much more exciting and sellable story of a crashed alien spacecraft.

I never said the military/government couldn't keep things secret or hidden.

I don't believe Tom Carey or Don Schmitt were the paperboy, who was only one of the many witnesses to this.

I'm talking about the paperboy, Richard Talbert, who wrote a book describing exactly what you posted. This display by the military carrying this "secret craft" through the middle of downtown Roswell partial covered by a tarp. He described being able to see it was a seamless egg-shaped craft with a dome on top. That's ridiculous and defys any kind of logic! Gun toting convoy but haphazardly covered alien spacecraft? Come on.

Tom Carey and Don Schmitt wrote books and weren't even first-hand witnesses to Roswell. There's no supporting argument there either because their belief in this story also lies in the stories.

You're insulting me again by suggesting that what I believe is just based on reading this book. This thread is about the book not me, so I'm talking about the book and for the record it's a very good, well written book.

I believe you're judging this book without reading it, and you're judging me when you don't even know me. Should I believe you over the witnesses? No chance.

I've never asked you to believe me over what's written in books and so-forth. As I've said all along, I've only suggested to research "facts" for yourself and come to your own conclusions. Many people don't do this and rely upon self appointed UFO "experts" for their facts.

To avoid derailing my thread, I won't be responding to you again.

That's fine... I'm still waiting for a realistic logical explanation to my Roswell debris being 100% consistent with RAWIN target construction argument. Posted it many times, never received a good answer.

reply to post by mirageman


Larry should have made it clear that only those in the studio could see the photos, but he just told Bill in part 5. He never said what the photos were or where they came from.

I think I know what was in that body bag, if I'm right that photo can't be from 1947. Check out the size of those dummies.

Larry was deceiving everyone, look at the way he cut Fulfurd off in part one to stop him from telling us about what he picked up at the time.
It's at 5:40 don't blink or you might miss him.

YouTube

reply to post by ImpactoR


The problem with Roswell is that most of the first hand witnesses have passed away, a lot of them were gone before they were told they could talk about it. They made sure there was no records of the event and there's a lot of disinformation out there to confuse us.

Everything in my OP is what I got from the book but I had heard most of it before, the book has a lot of details I couldn't post. Thanks to Mirageman I can give you a link to a preview of the book that my thread is about.

Book

reply to post by MysterX


from what i remember it was the small greys type

reply to post by mirageman


ive heard that to that Aztec was a hoax but when i did some digging i came up on a few interesting things
1.was the photo of the ufo from the alleged hoax site in the picture i seen i could clearly see it was in a hangar in wright patterson and it was bigger than the craft in roswell-
2.there where hacked documents online showing about it in the the early 90's cant find them online nomore
3.its been reports about bodies being taken to either forth worth and or wright patterson
4. why would u fly something from the west coast to the east coast when u have a secure location in texas? 5. when u dig into the secret constructions at wright patterson airforce you will find that a big expansion took place immediately right after these incidents

reply to post by atlantafallkids


Yes always keep an open mind as well. Nothing is ever black and white in this murky world of UFOlogy.

If you (or any other people) are interested Frank Scully's "Behind the Flying Saucers" is available as a free download ( .doc format) from here: www.opus501.org/files/behindtheflyingsaucers.doc



There is a documentary or two out there which are related to this thread as well.

This one specialises on the Aztec Incident



And this is an older general one about "Crashed Saucers" and Wright Patterson.

reply to post by mirageman


Thanks for posting those videos and the book link. I didn't know anything about the Aztec case, but that video helped me to understand some of what Chuck Wade said in the videos Meteorlima posted.

Withholding 200 pages of the documents for national security reasons in the Aztec case, does make it look like they have something to hide.

I will be reading that book in the future when I have the time for it, The Real Area 51 looks like it will be a good read as well, but they will have to wait for now.

reply to post by meteorlima


I still need time to think about what Chuck was saying and to try and see where it all fits in with what I've heard elsewhere.

What he said about everyone dismissing Glenn Dennis because he lied is right. He did lie, but he lied to protect the nurse. People who lie make it harder for us to get to the truth, but I have to respect Glenn for this because he made a promise not to reveal her name and he kept her name secret even though it made him look bad. Tom and Don did track down other witnesses who backed up his story so they must know it wasn't all lies.

reply to post by LEL01


I am about half way through the book. It's well put together and an entertaining read and I am totally aware that it is promoting the "Roswell was aliens" argument.

The Glen Dennis story and the involvement of the nurse (later named as Naomi Self) is a contentious one though. The official USAF investigations could not definitively track down any nurse and neither could Kevin Randle (who worked with Don Schmitt on two other books on the case 'UFO Crash at Roswell' and 'The Truth about the UFO Crash at Roswell'). He apparently fell out with his co-author over a number of issues over accuracy of what Schmitt had written.

According to Randle, Dennis asked him to promise not to reveal the nurse's name because of his own promise to her that he would keep it secret. But then proceeded to give the same name with a few slight variations to other investigators (Friedman, Pflock and Klass). Randle, and others, made exhaustive investigations that failed to turn up anything and then Dennis changed his story again saying he'd given a false name, which in his mind, leaves Dennis' story with little credibility.

I'll report back when I get to the end of the book.

reply to post by mirageman


Yes, Naomi is the false name Glenn Dennis gave, it would have been better if he just said no I'm not telling. I get the feeling the researchers were a bit desperate for answers and he probably lied so they would stop asking him. but that's just my opinion.

I'm sticking with Mary for now because she claimed she was in Scotland and Glenn said she died in a plane crash in England. Their lies make me think it was her, but did she lie about still being in the military at that time or were her records changed as part of the cover up?

I didn't know what had happened between Randle and Schmitt, but I guessed something was up. We all see things in our own way, I don't expect you will see this book in the same way as I see it. I'm looking forward to seeing what you make of it.

It is a "Roswell was aliens" book, but they do make some good points. I haven't read any of the other Roswell books, what I know about Roswell came from here, there and everywhere over a lot of years, I can't even remember where or when I first heard about it.

They got the La Paz story from Bill Rickett, he assisted La Paz on that job.

Larry King didn't let Fulford talk but UFO Hunters did.

YouTube

This video has the 2002 archaeological dig and near the end they have David Rudiak showing his results of the Ramey memo. The memo is just a blur to my eyes and I know that not everyone agrees with Rudiak's results.

The Roswell Crash: Startling New Evidence.

YouTube

reply to post by mirageman


Thanks for the vids

Roswell may still not be Roswell but some other place as I said, mostly the method of 'moving the attention to another - fake incident' which still means there is such an incident (out of this world crash), rather than making up an extraordinary event out of an ordinary crash. That is Roswell might be a coverup for another place where such thing has happened, rather than made out of nothing.

reply to post by LEL01


The Randle/Schmitt relationship appears to have broken down over a number less than factual statements Mr. Schmitt had made over time, tainting Mr. Randle's character by association. It should be pointed out that Kevin Randle failed to do his research on his co-writer before teaming up with him and Don Schmitt has his own story about why he made certain statements about himself and the Roswell case that were later exposed. Just give it a Google and you can read all about the spat. It's very similar to what was going on this side of the Atlantic during the 1990s between UFO researchers.

I dare say my impression will be different to yours on the book. Just as others on here have a different view to me. That's fine as I always believe people should make their own minds up and debate their points. We can agree or agree to disagree at the end of the day.

Thanks for the vids. I have seen the UFO hunters episode when it aired and poor Fulford passed away days after. The Ramey memo is intriguing and came after the "official" Roswell reports from the US air force.

ImpactoR
reply to post by mirageman

 

Thanks for the vids

Roswell may still not be Roswell but some other place as I said, mostly the method of 'moving the attention to another - fake incident' which still means there is such an incident (out of this world crash), rather than making up an extraordinary event out of an ordinary crash. That is Roswell might be a coverup for another place where such thing has happened, rather than made out of nothing.

Indeed Roswell could all be a smokescreen. For instance Hughie Green , a British TV personality who had served in the Canadian Air Force was crossing America as news of the Roswell incident was breaking. He recalled there had been a crash near Tucumcari . Thread here.. Tucumcari is a lot further north/east of Roswell than any of the other alleged crash sites.





My personal belief is to use the "Open Mind, Sceptics Eye" to everything in this field.

reply to post by mirageman


I was looking through all the Roswell videos to see if what the witnesses are saying is the same as what's written in the book. I didn't find much, only minor differences, but we know how videos are cut to show us what they want us to see, so we can't trust what they show.

I went looking to see why Randle and Schmitt fell out, the information I found was from people who were criticising everyone. Then their own information about the case was wrong, things like dates that we know the facts of because of when the newspaper articles were printed. I wasn't impressed by their comments about old people, that would be all of the witnesses in this case.

I only read this book because they interviewed so many witnesses, I was aware that it would be Schmitt and Carey's version of what they said. I think I'd missed a lot of the BS because I didn't read any of the other books.

What I would like to know, if anyone can tell me is, have any of the witnesses (in this book) or their families spoken out and said no, that's not true or that's not quite what we said?

I thought David Rudiak did a great job on the Ramey memo, I just wish I had the eyes to judge it for myself.

I keep trying to see where the Hughie Green story fits in with all of this, I wish we could find out more about that. We know they used the debris field to divert attention away from the other sites, so it's possible that could have included Tucumcari and the Plains of San Agustin.