About Nonconstructive ATS Comments and Mind-Bubbles

Hi, this is my first post, I am the very open-minded and I hope this post will be useful to you all.

Dear ATS members,

“You can’t reach truth if you don’t dare to adventure yourself outside your mind-bubble”
– TheOpenMind

Most of the discussion in Above Top Secret aren't constructive at all, and it is the only thing causing hate and unstoppable debates that reach no conclusion. Why? Simple, many see black or white.

*Before continuing, I would like to mention that you should not see this post as an attack to anyone’s ideas. It is to make you understand how all together (really everyone), we can reach a better understanding and the truth. If you feel offended in any way, calm down and try to read through.

So, what do I mean by black or white?
Most of the people in the world have their own ideas and know that there are opposite ones, for example: Creation vs. Evolution, good vs. bad, Electric Universe Theory vs. the Current Universe Theory, etc.

And, why wouldn't debates/discussions be constructive?
In one word, it is because of “criticism”. When someone posts a criticism, it means he refuted someone’s idea in advance (consciously or not). Reasons? They protect their own ideas; they don’t like the new idea; they can’t imagine how it could be true; they don’t understand it. Results? The one who criticize rejects any new concepts, while the one who is criticized gets offended or questions (even rejects) his own idea.

What is the most illogical critic?
How many times have you heard someone saying “Where are the facts/images/proofs?” Ironically, that is often a stupid question because, when it is matter of a very rare/secret/hidden subject, there is a 0% chance of facts/images/proofs. In such case, the evidence is the logic, explanation and consequences behind it. For example, do you really think I can show you a picture of an alien to prove my point? No only it is extremely unlikely, but it would probably be so unbelievable that everyone would say it is fake. So, if I have it or not, there would be no difference. On the other hand, it is extremely logical that, it there is life on a big space rock (Earth) around one of the many stars, there is 100% chance of life somewhere else in the Universe.

Instead of criticizing, dare to make the effort of understanding how the other person got to such conclusion and what such conclusion would imply. Talking, sharing ideas, linking concepts, and even think together why your own and the other’s idea differs. All this will allow you not only to find common grounds on which to build a better understanding, but also joining ideas will open the way to new ones that are more logical and complete.

I show it to you with one well-known topic: The theory of the Universe.

---- The Electric Universe (EU) vs. the Current Theory (CT) ---

The CT has been able to explain a lot of stuff, from small to unimaginably big structures, but it hasn't been able to explain some other so called "anomalies" (increasing number with new discoveries). On the other side, EU has been able to predict and explain a lot of the phenomena not fitting in CT, but it has many flaws on phenomena easily explained by CT. And everyone argues which one is the real one… Well, let me tell you that after a lot of research, it is BOTH. Just look at the facts. CT is based mainly on gravity, while EU mainly of electric energy. Spoiler alert, both gravity and electric energy coexist in the same universe. Focusing on only one of the components will result into a miss understanding of the phenomena caused by the other component and by the interaction between both.

You should read the facts of both theories carefully (for EU, I suggest "thunderbolts project"), and you’ll see the potential of joining those two theories into one, much more precise and complete theory. But here I’ll give you some examples to save you time:

a) Comets: Many think these are rocks flying in emptiness (space), and they are. But there is much more that is unexplained about them. Phenomena like their brightening (halos), their tails and their life-time can't be explained by a rock flying in emptiness and heating up. It wouldn't be as bright and with such tail (and described heats when passing near the Sun) would make comets disintegrate relatively quickly. But comets often survive and even come back like Comet Halley.

b) Sun: the best example is the impossibility by current theory to explain that the outer layer (corona) is hotter that the layer below it. But EU explains it quite easily. If an object moves through a charge field, a hot region is formed around it, shown by plasma physics. So, the Sun is moving at 217 km/s though space and at such speed, the effect is quite important.

c) Lightning: other than the lightnings between Earth and clouds, there are “jets of lightning” that go from clouds to space. This would be impossible unless there is a way for them to travel in space and so, for space to be charged.

d) Black Holes: these do not exist (as said in many scientific magazines). But similar effects can be shown by EU. Imagine an very high concentration of electric energy and remember Einstein’s equation E=mc^2. What happens is that high concentrations of energy can behave (especially when viewed from big distances) literally as objects having those astonishing masses calculated for black holes (in millions of Suns)

e) Galaxies, Dark Matter and Dark Energy: these “dark” concepts appeared from balancing equations to explain how galaxies didn't fall apart (dark matter) and to explain why galaxies were going away from each other. But never have been proven and never will. Now from the point of view of EU, if the region of the galaxy is charged and the effects of this on the matter in the galaxy, can explain why it stays together and all the "missing mass" (again E=mc^2). For the galaxies accelerating away from us (dark energy) is based on red-shift calculations and expanding universe. But both of these have facts proving them wrong, like red-shifts of stars going faster than light and galaxies older than the universe itself. EU hasn't yet an exact explanation for this but if you consider that 99.9% of universe is plasma (like studies suggest) which is very conductive, then red-shift would be greatly affected and new ways of calculating distances will need to be found.

Well, I could talk about this and more all day long, and give more examples, but have to put some limits. So,
Tan Tan!!! Finished

Now, for those that read this carefully and with an open-mind:
I’m not saying this is the complete truth, but I’m trying to make you understand that if you see things black or white, you’ll never know the truth. Every idea and concept has a truth behind it. Understanding this one will make you go further, make you realize more than before, make you be closer to the truth.

If you wish to comment, do so. I love new ideas!!! Let this be a Post with really constructive ideas.
But if you want to make useless emotional-based critiques, keep it to yourself, and re-read this post calmly. If you really have something against what I said, message me and if I have time (got to study too xD), I’ll answer to you.

Have a good day ATS !!!

reply to post by TheOpenMind


I don't give a fart whether or not you think it's a stupid question - where is your proof?

Regarding your point about requesting proof... I agree. It's frustrating to read, because it's so unrealistic. There was a thread where the poster claimed that her kid daughter came face-to-face with a Reptilian who told her that humanity would soon be harvested. "Wy didn't she take a picture of it?" was one response, along those lines. "Most cell phones have cameras, and even little kids have phones these days-- there's no excuse." Something like that.

And here I am saying, "Yeah...... no."

I sometimes think about drawing a sarcastic comic of such a scene, where the victim suddenly stops and says, "Hold on, Sir," pulls out a cell phone (or camera, because obviously everyone carries one of those around on a daily basis), activates the camera function, and then takes a picture of the alien, who poses appropriately.
Then the two go back to their deadly encounter like nothing happened.

that was a pretty long-winded 'Hello' there


the open mind appears to be setting the ground rules rather than becoming a participant first


i am self taught in fire walking & glass shards....but that is not a requirement

I had a thread go a few pages once and a few of the comments were from people who had also broached the subject but their threads had gone nowhere.

My thread had several raging arguements which is what gave its legs...

And again, only two comment about the subject, while two irrelevant-emotional-nonconstructive-notAboutTheTopic critiques... Please, make an effort to be meaningful at least.

Also, sorry for posting this in "Introductions" but I don't know why, it isn't working today for me to post this in "General Chat". So, being my first post, I decided to introduce myself as such.

Thank You.

reply to post by TheOpenMind

This is the intro forum. You're supposed to talk about yourself. You can air all the "criticism" in a thread after you get 20 posts.

So hello and welcome.

Now get in, sit down, shut up and hold on!

reply to post by TheOpenMind


I'll make sure to cite references and keep my tone as clinical as possible next time, Prof.

reply to post by TheOpenMind

I think you make some fair points here. It's similar to a point I came to around the start of the year for frustration, in fact. I'd just throw this out for considering...

ATS is a 100% user generated content site. So, if ATS is moving in bad directions for anything, it's moving by user contribution for guiding that move.

That also makes it a matter any one of us can do something about. I chose to come back from a bout with burn out a new bunny...determined to stick to facts on interesting things to share or debate. It's had various levels of success, I'll admit, but I've certainly become a happier person overall for focusing on what to add and not what I think shouldn't have been.

So, as Gandhi once said, Be the change you want to see. ATS makes that as easy as can be, eh?

Pictures or it didn't happen.

Right?

Actually, the OP is correct to a degree.

The issue at hand about lack of discussion is due to a lot of factors.

Experience, ego, age, temperament, emotional maturity and of course personal mission of the poster.

All of these factors will tend to filter members into different activities. Unfortunately, experience and emotional maturity seems to favor less participation and more turning off the computer.

Most posters go through a cycle of enthusiasm, discombobulation, dismay, anger, desensitization, disinterest, dabbling and ultimately a mild amusement at the other members who are still going through the first five stages.

A great many of the ATS posters have one deep seated pet peeve that they focus on. It might be UFO's are secret anti communist projects, abduction victims are suffering from sleep depredation, the climate would be fine if we didn't let people wear Yamaka's, _____s-are-bad-so-let's-bash-em, I hate the presidents back swing or whatever else is in the obsessive compulsive's mind today.

Unfortunately, these seem to be the majority of threads any more and usually the obsessive compulsive trollery is vigorously attacked by the recidivist anti-trollerists who know better than to feed that troll and make him feel more important. But...they still dwell in discombobulation, dismay, or anger and fire away instead of pushing the imaginary ignore button (I really do wish we still had an ignore button; my pet peeve)

Thus the majority of our input is simply antagonistic fluff.

Have fun.

Interesting! Wish more would consider what you actually said, some will not. It is so inbedded in their minds that one side of anything is the answere and thats it.

Learning to actually open all ways of thinking leaves for more understanding later. No right nor wrong, something to discuss and share ideas, how people learn new things. Breaking down the walls in ones mind would be a issue to talk about. Raised this way, learned it that way, how would anybody actually know if they do not leave the door open to new ideas.

Explains why the world is the way it is, we are all connected somehow. It has become Me instead of We anymore, just because you have papers stating this gives no one the right to step on another anyway. But they do, found it to be a fact. Never understood it myself, catch myself sometimes knowing I never been in their shoes nor lived their life so how could I truely understand another.

You made my day today; something to actually talk about and be wide open to learn new things on both sides of an idea. Really though, an idea can have many sides, left, right, midldle and the unexplainable!

TheOpenMind
Also, sorry for posting this in "Introductions" but I don't know why, it isn't working today for me to post this in "General Chat".

Welcome to ATS, TheOpenMind!

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reply to post by TheOpenMind


Welcome to ATS! I love open-minded people!


Relax, and enjoy the ride!

reply to post by TheOpenMind


Star and Flag for you, if I could. While this isn't the perfect example of an introduction thread (the Expectation), I really like what you had to say.

Didn't take long for the boxed-perceptions to push Expectations on you. Well done on having them illustrate your point.

So welcome to ATS, I hope to read many more of your thoughts.

sled735
reply to post by TheOpenMind

 

Welcome to ATS! I love open-minded people!

Relax, and enjoy the ride!

To Sled735:

How did sneak into my house and take a picture of my kitty!

To the OP:

Welcome!

I understand your perspective.

I'd like to make one suggestion for you to consider.

It seems to me that a great number of human beings confuse
the thoughts in their mind with 'themselves'. So if someone
'attacks their thoughts', then it is perceived as 'attacking them'.

Only, people are not their thoughts. Thoughts come and go..
today's materialist is tomorrow's religious person sometimes
and back to materialist.. then to an NFL football addict..
all the while thinking that this parade of characters passing
through their mind is "them". It's not. It's crud from the world
swirling around, and it changes moment by moment. Yah,
sometimes long-lasting memes, such as a particular religion
or political party or whatever infect their brain.. and THAT
is not 'them' either. To a person who is aware of what they
really are, it's the story of the one-eyed man in the kingdom
of the blind.

In short; people will flame you.. they can't help it.
You might as well get used to it.

KPB

reply to post by KellyPrettyBear


Jejeje, it is true that there will be always people ready to "flame" others, but if this post helps at least one person to realize what I'm saying or to take it in count, I'll be happy already.

Can't change the whole world, but can make it better person-by-person

Welcome!

reply to post by TheOpenMind


Amen brother!

KPB

reply to post by TheOpenMind


Dude, your other thread was closed because you didn't follow any of the local rules. Especially the 20 post rule. That rule was made long ago to keep people from just jumping in and preaching till they run out of breath, which is kinda what you seem to have done.

Take a breath, chill, reply to a few posts that you feel are meaningful and when you get to twenty, you can then lead us all out of the mire which I for one would like to see happen.

reply to post by TerryMcGuire


Yeah, I just got the idea hahaha, and I sorry for not following rules.
I just made a real Introduction and will make the 20 post first

Thanks