Help me believe in god

reply to post by voyger2


depends on geography. i really like the ancient gods.

reply to post by AfterInfinity


As an engineering student I want to say I am deeply and horribly appalled that you took what I said as an attack on science. Science and religion need to co-exist. Yet there are those who want to divide and divide and divide until there's nothing left! Science and religion worked wonderfully and peacefully for a long time... and now all of a sudden, if we believe in God, we reject that ashphalt exists, or that computers exist, or that internet exists?

Now, please, explain yourself to me. If you are just trying to pick a fight with me, that's okay. If you are being serious and honestly believe(d) that I am or was attacking science in any way with my comment, then either I need to apologize for being unclear about my intentions, or YOU need to apologize for antagonizing me and twisting my words to fit your own ill-intentioned plans.

Science doesn't exist 'despite' religion, it exists BECAUSE of it.

reply to post by rockoperawriter


There are no gods.

Hey James,
Interesting post here. You've asked some very good questions, and I get the sense you have a seekers heart. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but you strike me as somebody who has a hard time rationalizing the belief in a literal "God" as taught my major religions. Almost as if mentally it's impossible for you to conceptualize it's existence when you sense so many holes in religious ways. But the battle is the emotional/spiritual aspect of you here.
This is because God has created a built in desire to seek the truth, know the truth and ultimately be liberated by truth. It's what Jesus always referred to when he said, "And the truth shall set you free". It's an inner battle, because our conscious minds for the most part are not aware of our subconscious minds, in the same way our flesh is not compatible with the spirit. It's impossible for anybody to convince you to believe in "God" And you're right when you say that scripture quoting ( even though I did it here) Is hard to convince one otherwise, because the very source ( the bible) is the very mystery itself. Is it divinely inspired and truly the secret to life's greatest mysteries and most ancient pursuit of man, or is it a form of control created by Man used as a tool to deceive the masses.
I think you need to continue searching with a pure heart. As long as you search with a pure heart the truth will find you, not the other way around. God is a mystery to not just anyone, but everyone. Even the Preacher who seems to have it all together, and speaks with such elegance, charisma and confidence will have nights where he goes home reads the newspaper and see's the events going on in the world today and will question his faith, question why there has to be so much pain and suffering etc... He will be human just like everyone else and maybe have tons of vices like Alcoholism, gambling, an obsession with porn etc...
Don't ever let anybody ever convince you that you need to know all the answers, and if you don't obtain those answers within a short timeframe you will suffer for eternity. I promise you this coming from one who believes in Jesus Christ. Man made religion is flawed, but God's holy spirit is not. Every good thing that exists in the world today, love, hope, faith, courage, integrity, compassion, wisdom etc.. comes in the form of the Holy Spirit once it aligns within the spirit of a human being. The irony? It's not just one religion that experiences this phenomena. It's like you hinted at earlier many people seem to have these moments where life changes drastically and rapidly for them and they "find God". Skeptics will always say this usually happens when one encounters death in the family, has a near death experience themselves. They say it's because you become afraid of death and thus have to buy into an illusion and a lie for self preservation sake. But the truth is, many people do experience things that are so similar and parallel in their descriptions and sense of "God" and "Light" that it would actually be insane to chalk it up to coincidence.
I know what's its like to be so confused man, to feel like everybody is selling something and pulling you one way, while another group pulls you the other. The thing that has really helped change things around for me when I'm in the pits of despair, is to just subtly pray to God and envision peace, envision yourself experiencing it and feeling liberated within. If you ask God to reveal himself to you, truth is you don't need a book ( although the holy spirit will encourage you and awaken you to truths in there), a preacher or any teaching to teach you where to go next. This is because the truth is written in our hearts. We know right or wrong in our hearts before any teacher indoctrinates us on their interpretation of right or wrong. This is all because of the holy spirit. It works within us all. Anytime you've done something good it is inspired by God's spirit , because he is the author or all that is good. And anytime you do something in your heart you feel guilty for, normally it's temptation from the darker domains that have managed to tease you with the bait of some forbidden fruit , and managed to create pain in your life.
God will never give up us though. If you humbly take the way of the cross, like Jesus did and truly seek to know the truth and experience God, to do the right thing even when it's not popular, or convenient but rather just because it's the right thing to do you will be blessed and led towards further understanding. Jesus truly was the Son of God, but its not enough to hear about him, you have to experience his holy spirit and experience a shift where your eyes begin opening and you see the truth in a way you couldn't before. I promise you this, all the charismatic movement in Christianity that emphasizes a literal eternal hellfire, and strives to evangelize and "win souls for Jesus" so they can sleep easier at night are all movements that don't come from God. Almost every church is cursed actually because they have turned the sacred truths into clever deception, and are focusing on all worldy things and therefore destroying the reputation of genuine believers . It's normally the ones who suffer the most, who have to be lone rangers and don't fall in line with the masses, who will know the truth. Nobody can keep God in a box, and claim to know all his attributes, intentions, characteristics. God is a mystery, but a mystery that can be experienced when you choose to take a stand and say , " I want to know you". The way is the straight and narrow man, try to do your best to avoid TV, too much internet, get in touch with nature, be charitable, eat as natural as possible, pray and truly focus on the beauty of all Gods creation. Don't allow the Powers that be to keep you in a prison.
Praying for you man, always fight the good fight

James1982


I'm just very interested in how to actually be convinced of god, it seems everything depends on how you view certain events, giving meaning to some, while ignoring others to perpetuate the idea that someone above is intervening in your life. Or flat out trickery by others.

God is within, not in a church or a mosque or a synagogue.

Life and conciousness exist, now how that came to exist as a material reality is where you will find God.
When you start to find out about the strict mathematics of the universe you stumble across God.
When we comprehend the biological computer program of DNA we find God.
God is the intelligence behind everything that we perceive in this material existence.
God is in the balance of nature, the positive and negative, the ying and yang.
Many would deny God, when the truth is in front of their face, but they just cannot see it.


Out of death spawns new life, and so the cycle of the miracle of life continues.

reply to post by rockoperawriter


look friend, if you are using sarcasm.. keep it,please.

you are free to believe (to have faith) in what ever you want..

I shared already my knowledge with the OP... If you don't agree you a free to it and if you have doubt's, you can ask.

Now about this thread and where is going to I only quote,the words of Jesus, about division and discussion of beliefs:

« I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.»

edit: Luke 12:49-53

generally you need to hit rock bottom in life. to be desperate enough to search and accept anything that may give you hope or peace of mind.

its not actually based on belief. but its how mannnnny people come to like religion itself.

voyger2
reply to post by rockoperawriter

 

look friend, if you are using sarcasm.. keep it,please.

you are free to believe (to have faith) in what ever you want..

I shared already my knowledge with the OP... If you don't agree you a free to it and if you have doubt's, you can ask.

Now about this thread and where is going to I only quote,the words of Jesus, about division and discussion of beliefs:

« I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?

But I have a baptism to be baptized with; and how am I straitened till it be accomplished!

Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division:

For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three.

The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, and the daughter against the mother; the mother in law against her daughter in law, and the daughter in law against her mother in law.»

edit: Luke 12:49-53

edit on v2013134America/ChicagoThu, 24 Oct 2013 16:10:33 -05002 by voyger2 because: (no reason given)

But the OP isnt looking for religion. Hes looking for God. There is only one God, but many many religions.

And as the previous poster states, religion is often found when at rock bottom and desperate for hope.

reply to post by 3OGRE3

As an engineering student I want to say I am deeply and horribly appalled that you took what I said as an attack on science.

So you're an engineering student. That only makes what you posted worse.

Science and religion need to co-exist. Yet there are those who want to divide and divide and divide until there's nothing left! Science and religion worked wonderfully and peacefully for a long time... and now all of a sudden, if we believe in God, we reject that ashphalt exists, or that computers exist, or that internet exists?

The answer to that is simple: you either need to redefine how we understand science, or redefine how we understand god. You should know this, you're the engineering student. Geesh.

Now, please, explain yourself to me. If you are just trying to pick a fight with me, that's okay. If you are being serious and honestly believe(d) that I am or was attacking science in any way with my comment, then either I need to apologize for being unclear about my intentions, or YOU need to apologize for antagonizing me and twisting my words to fit your own ill-intentioned plans.

You sounded distinctly disdainful toward a predominantly scientific approach to investigating this reality, as opposed to assuming the answers and ignoring the questions.

Science doesn't exist 'despite' religion, it exists BECAUSE of it.

And you're full of the stuff that goes in toilets. Religion persecuted any scientist who didn't agree with the Bible, the whole Bible, and nothing but the Bible. Galilei? Remember him? House arrest. Executed when he refused to stop his devilish work. Because he found out the Earth is not the center of the universe, and in fact revolves around the sun, not the other way around.

They didn't like that at all. We like to be at the middle of everything. Everything is about us, right? Do some fact checking once in a while, you might actually make sense. If you're an engineering student, you're going to have some rough times with a mentality like that. You don't PRAY a building into being. In fact, if any prayer at all goes into it, you didn't do enough math.

Does God like math? I hope he does. He's responsible for something like 20 million deaths because he's too lazy or obstinate to help people. That's 4 Hitlers. And that's just in recorded history. That's not talking about shooting victims, starvation, disease, abuse, suicide, etc. He kills people, we save them. We kill people, he lets us. Figure that one out. You're the engineer.

God is not found in rote learning words or rote prayers. God in not found but by those who earnestly seek and ask for that revelation. I will challenge you to do one thing. Simply open your heart to the possibility of the truth of God and Jesus / Yeshua. Then with an honest desire to know truth simply ask God to show you the truth, for Jesus to come into your heart and teach you if he is real.

I believe that heartfelt desire will be answered, and you will know it when it is. I just posted a thread about a Hindu Guru who did just that and amazingly he got his evidence that day! God loves us all and is just waiting for us to be open and ask with a sincere heart. Would you deny your child if they approached you with a sincere heart felt request that YOU WANT to fulfill? Neither with your Father in heaven who made your soul, and called you at the foundation of this world.

Mike Shreve : Guru who found the TRUTH

freedom7
This is because the truth is written in our hearts. We know right or wrong in our hearts before any teacher indoctrinates us on their interpretation of right or wrong. This is all because of the holy spirit. It works within us all. Anytime you've done something good it is inspired by God's spirit , because he is the author or all that is good.

freedom7
God will never give up us though. If you humbly take the way of the cross, like Jesus did and truly seek to know the truth and experience God, to do the right thing even when it's not popular, or convenient but rather just because it's the right thing to do you will be blessed and led towards further understanding. Jesus truly was the Son of God, but its not enough to hear about him, you have to experience his holy spirit and experience a shift where your eyes begin opening and you see the truth in a way you couldn't before.

freedom7
God is a mystery, but a mystery that can be experienced when you choose to take a stand and say , " I want to know you". The way is the straight and narrow man, try to do your best to avoid TV, too much internet, get in touch with nature, be charitable, eat as natural as possible, pray and truly focus on the beauty of all Gods creation. Don't allow the Powers that be to keep you in a prison.

Your post was a little to long I think I agree 100% with it. Had to highlight some of your words
Praying for you man, always fight the good fight

James1982
I realize some may feel this is better suited for the religion forum, but this is more of a philosophical discussion on how to change a belief, then it is a discussion about religion itself, please keep that in mind, this isn't the place for religious arguments.

As a child I was brought up in a non-religious household, but oddly enough was sent to sunday school or whatever the local church's equivalent of that would be, once a week for quite some time. One of the (public) school's organizations my mother was a part of was operated out of the church, so that might have played a part.

Anyway, among the typical things one would hear at such a place, is that to be saved, you must believe in God and Jesus. Being brought up in a non-religious household, god and religion weren't taught as bad, they just weren't really a part of anything. But the ideas weren't totally foreign to me, as some extended family was religious, in addition to it being impossible to avoid knowledge of such things in today's world.

As a young child my views on what exactly religion did and was weren't accurate at all, I saw some sort of bizarre web of "gods" that you had to avoid pissing off in order to avoid eternal torture. It seemed more about things you were supposed to avoid doing, not what you were supposed to believe. I wondered why people would get involved with groups that made them do things to avoid getting tortured.

So once I realized you were supposed to actually believe in god and Jesus in order to be saved, as opposed to just doing what they told us, I was confused. I figured, why would you need to believe in someone like god or jesus? They are such powerful and well known figures, so as a young child my mind told me these "people" must be real, but why people would follow them still confused me.

Upon figuring out that the reason we are supposed to believe in them, is because they don't "exist" in the way that "normal people" exist, I became even more confused. Typical "how I became an atheist" story follows, although I don't consider myself an atheist.

Sorry for the long lead in, but the issue I always had was that you are supposed to believe a certain way, and that somehow you can be "converted" or convinced to believe in god.

My lack of religious beliefs doesn't stem from hatred of religion, a desire to rebel, or to avoid judgement for my actions. It comes from my total inability to believe, with any significant conviction, that god exists in any form even remotely approaching what is taught by most all major religions.

So to get to the basis of this thread, how do you change a belief? The way I see it, belief is based on input just like anything else. You believe something is true based on reasons, and will continue to believe it's true until you are given additional input, or previous input is found to be faulty. Which is just another way of saying I'll believe in god when he pops up on my couch one evening.

So how can I believe in god? What actions and thoughts could I take that would lead me down a path that would result in my actual beliefs being changed? It seems many people have experiences that are turning points, where something happens and they instantly "find god"

Other than that, what can be done to change a belief? If I really, really wanted to become a christian, or a muslim, I couldn't do so honestly unless I actually believed in god.

The obvious answer to me, is that nobody can ever really be "converted" you can change your "official" title but your beliefs don't change. You can trick yourself into reconciling certain things, in a similar way an abused wife convinces herself that her husband still loves her, but deep down she still knows he doesn't. This isn't a judgement towards anyone here who has changed religion. If your inputs changed and caused a change in belief that makes perfect sense.

I'm speaking more about the practice of forced conversions, conversions in order to marry, and the idea in general that any religion can "save" people by convincing them to believe in god.

Maybe I should go chat with someone at a church and say I really want to join, but honestly I don't believe in god, but would like my mind changed on that subject. What could be done? Quoting scripture does nothing, as the non-believer gives no legitimacy to the scripture in the first place. How can my belief be honestly changed? Is it a long journey of exposing myself to certain circumstances and experiences, or is there a nugget of wisdom that one comes across and instantly it all clicks?

What are your thoughts?

Quick question:

Do you actually want to believe in god or is there some deeper desire in your heart?

Related question:

Are you requesting help from the group to process past baggage? If yes, that's fine. That seems to be a major function of ATS.

KPB

My kindle decided to repeat a mesage I wrote an hour or so ago, whoops

reply to post by BobAthome


Gods a fairey tale, just as Mother Goose and all the others I mentioned. That's my beleif, it's like an opinion...we all have one. We all have a brain as well, why some choose not to use it is beyond me. Logicical thinking say's God is Imaginary.

reply to post by UnifiedSerenity


Let us first define TRUTH, shall we? It is something no human should ever speak of lightly, given that no human has a clear inside track to what one may whimsically label as THE TRUTH.

We would all be sorely amiss to not examine such a matter as thoroughly as we can.

reply to post by Bisman

generally you need to hit rock bottom in life. to be desperate enough to search and accept anything that may give you hope or peace of mind.

its not actually based on belief. but its how mannnnny people come to like religion itself.

Which is why that's the worst place to find religion. At that point, any bullcrap sold cheap sells quickly.

reply to post by Bisman


One has to hit absolute rock bottom to then move beyond that.

KPB

reply to post by OneManArmy


Well it toked me while to find. But this is the answer IMO. Try to understand:

«There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews:

The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.»

john 3:1-7 (if your read what i left out it could help www.biblegateway.com...)

sometimes in your life it takes a very difficult situation to wake up... don't need go running to church/religion, but you will find what I stated before:

the truth will reveal itself to you via holy spirit. a change in your life will be operated... it will be up to you to try to understand and accept the truth.. or ignore and follow your old life.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Aphorism
reply to post by James1982

 

Start with what we do have in regards to God. We have the word "God".

What is "God"? God, as far as we can tell, is a word, which names or labels our conceptions of what the concept of God means to each individual.

To some, "God" means the law of laws.

To some, "God" is the old man in the sky.

To some, "God" is what put the universe in motion.

To some, "God" is chaos.

To some, "God" is everything.

To some, "God" has no use any longer.

Look to language, the father of all metaphysical inquiry. In most cases, especially in the case of God, words are all we have to work with.

In my conception God is "The word", the alpha and the omega (First and last letter of the greek alphabet), the logos. No other animal has concepts of God, because no other animal has language. God is language.

That is some good stuff! Brilliant, I must say! I mean.. if there's no language, there's no god (written or verbal) how could there be?? Anyway very nice ...thanks for the good stuff there..

ScottProphhit
Meditation, a healthy pineal gland and thats all you need to figure it out

I agree but If he is like me who is a bit ill-suited for normal meditation he should probably try chakra meditative sounds. He could try teaching himself Reiki for his own benefit if he can find the right teacher.

To the OP. Sometimes faith can be used as a tool to achieve things. Just because a tool works and make things that science would call paranormal, do not mean it is the only tool that works. The thing I think you seek is from my point of view not as one sided as religion would have you believe. You can see religions like maps. It is the destination in this case that matters. Some maps are harder to read than others.

Some times servral religions/maps give even more understanding than one.