SR71 waits for Concorde

Hi all.

I was reading about Concorde on another forum and came across this little excerpt. It was written some time ago and I hope the writer will not be upset by my copying what he wrote.

"Ancient tale.

There's this SR-71 Blackbird stooging around Cuba on a top-secret mission, at FL500+ and Mach 2+.... when they get a call requesting them to change heading "because of traffic at your altitude".
Traffic at THEIR altitude ??
Anyway, they comply, and shortly, yes, there's an Air France Concorde out of Caracas (Air France flew there in the early days) slowly sailing across their flight path.

Just imagine... two guys in bonedomes and full pressure suits, in a cramped cockpit, watching something like a hundred people in shirt sleeves or summer dresses, sipping their champagne and maybe just starting on their smoked salmon hors d'oeuvres, flying at their altitude and nearly their speed...."

My thanks to a French poster on pprune, christiaanj for this.

Of course there is no comparison between the two, and that was not the point of the post, but the picture it conjures up is almost surreal. Hope you all enjoy.

reply to post by dowot


Lmao, must have been pretty absurd at the time. Obviously we take that stuff for granted now but back then, it was mind blowing.

reply to post by dowot


Hilarious! Can just imagine the SR-71 asking: "I am holding for WHO?"

Sorry but the Concorde doesn't even come close to the SR71 in terms of speed. The Concorde is about half as fast as the SR71. In fact the Concorde can't even match the altitude of the SR71 so it sounds like your story is just that a story. Because why would the SR71 have to wait for a plane that is slower and has to fly lower?

reply to post by dowot


Interesting story. At certain times I suppose this could be possible but the Concorde flew at a cruise speed of slightly over mach 2 and at FL500 - 600 and the SR71, I would think, would be at FL800+ and at mach 3+. I suppose mission requirements may have dictated the SR71's mission be at around the same flight level and speed as the Concorde.
Also who would have been calling the SR71 to change its heading if it was on a "top secret" mission?

reply to post by buster2010


SR-71 cruising speed is Mach 3+ at roughly 85K feet
Concorde cruising speed is Mach 2 at max 60K feet.

So it's an odd story. Unless of course the SR-71 was flying low.
Which is possible.

I don't suppose the SR-71 was always operating at or near its limits. Only where circumstances dictated, so it could easily be true.

The point that so many people forget when they point out that the SR-71 could go higher and faster than Concorde, was that Concorde did what it did on a daily basis, carrying 100 passengers and all their luggage, as the OP said, in shirt sleeves, sipping champagne, in safety, and operating at a profit, when most military aircraft in service could, and can, only achieve those speeds and heights for a few minutes if at all..

I think the technical achievement of doing that is seriously underestimated by people for whom headline figures are everything.

reply to post by grey580


I think it is a story a Concorde pilot might tell while sampling a few brews with his bros.

buster2010
Sorry but the Concorde doesn't even come close to the SR71 in terms of speed. The Concorde is about half as fast as the SR71. In fact the Concorde can't even match the altitude of the SR71 so it sounds like your story is just that a story. Because why would the SR71 have to wait for a plane that is slower and has to fly lower?

Also the SR-71 has an 85,000ft ceiling vs. 60,000ft on the Concorde, the question is if the SR-71 really needed for Cuba all its 85K ft. So the scenario with the proximity of Cuba and Venezuela is plausible. The 85,000ft were intended for airspace defended by much more sophisticated SAM systems and others. Cuba for sure did not have that. So why bother climb all the way to max alt?

reply to post by waynos


Very true. I've been around and on the Concorde several times (static museum display) and it always amazed me that something so large could fly at those speeds and have most of its occupants blissfully un-aware of what they are actually doing.

Oh I am sure it is a tale, the point was, as waynos said, the SR71 crew were exceptional pilots, helmeted and suited, where as the Concorde crew were just plain "ordinary" pilots and behind them a 100 or so passengers, in shirt sleeves and sipping champagne.

Re speeds, it was recorded as traveling at mach 2.6, was rolled at an air show and on test flights, the aircraft would routinely zoom climb to FL 630. On her maiden flight, aircaft 208 (G-BOAB) reached an altitude of 65000'; the highest recorded Concorde altitude was on one of the French development aircraft, which achieved 68,000'. Speed and altitude were in some ways fixed by insurance, certification and it's ability to save lives if the worst happened and there was a depressurisation.

reply to post by waynos


True, but why build a military plane with the same capabilities as far as pressurization goes? It was built for a very specific mission, and it did it well. As did Concorde.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Supersonic troop transport? Lol

Actually there were several proposals for those in the 60's, even hypersonic ones too. All utterly unrealistic of course.

My point is just that think people are quite blasé about Concorde these days and don't really appreciate how difficult it was, in a different way to how achievements like the SR-71 were difficult. Not all of course, but quite a few. Almost as if building an airliner that was slower and lower flying than Blackbird meant it was easy. Flight once described, jokingly, the Space Shuttle as 'Americas answer to Concorde" and, even in jest, and again coming with completely different problems to solve, it does offer some perspective

Turns out this was a true story (well, according to the pilot)

Jock then told me about the time he was chatting to some pilots of the super-secret American spy plane, the SR71 Blackbird.

Now, the whole point of that amazing aircraft was that it flew way beyond the reach of other planes. Faster and higher, hidden away.

But one day, these guys said that their air traffic controller told them to get out of the way because there was a Concorde coming through. They couldn't believe it.

Peering out of one window, two American military pilots wearing space suits.

Peering out of the other perhaps, Joan Collins guzzling champagne - I'm guessing she was on the plane as she often was - I wonder if they waved?

Source

Awesome plane.

buster2010
Sorry but the Concorde doesn't even come close to the SR71 in terms of speed. The Concorde is about half as fast as the SR71. In fact the Concorde can't even match the altitude of the SR71 so it sounds like your story is just that a story. Because why would the SR71 have to wait for a plane that is slower and has to fly lower?

Because of the arrangement of the traffic. Faster aircraft often have to give way to slower ones just because of the geometry of their situations.

The story was the SR71 was at 50,000 feet - well within the Concorde's envelope - controlled airspace goes to 60,000 feet.

That doesn't make it true of course - but it is certainly not impossible.

reply to post by woogleuk


Woogle' you beat me to it.

Was rather surprised to see the story turn up again. Makes you wonder if it is a tale or really happened. Whatever, it was a great plane and when you read some of the posts about it's construction, history and flying it, it makes enthralling reading.

Apparently a US airline got trained to use it, Braniff I think. Again another story about one of the F/E in the training simulator, instead of calmly reporting at 100knts the engine state, he is supposed to have stood up, in his harness and cried out, " Gee Whiz look at the son of a bitch go".

I hope some of you can get to read the thread. www.pprune.org... originally started over 2 years ago and still having posts.


www.bbc.co.uk... Looks like BA are rather agin the idea of getting one in the air again. But they got a Vulcan to fly so maybe it might happen. Now that would be a sight, a Spit, Hurry, Lanc, Mossie, Vulcan and Concorde in formation! Any Lightnings still flying?

reply to post by dowot


I believe it has been suggested that *if* the various issues about getting a Concorde airborne again can ever be surmounted, the most likely candidate is the one at Manchester Airport due to it being preserved inside its own specially built hangar to protect it.



There are no flying Lighnings permitted in the UK, though to see them fast taxi on full afterburner at Bruntingthorpe is quite impressive.

Back in my aircraft spotting days (The anorak was hung up a LOT of years ago) I was listening to my old AM airband radio and London control (they were still at West Drayton back then) were talking to a Grumman Gulfstream 2 and an RAF Canberra,both looking for higher altitudes on the same airway (heading south down UA1 I think it was).The Gulf 2 was at something like FL390,asked London for higher and was advised that the Canberra was not too far away and just below him.London asked if he could take FL450,he accepted with the message "Sure thing London,we'll climb to FL450 to get out of that old fella's way" The Canberra pilot called London control and asked to climb as well who asked what he could take "The old fella would like to climb to FL550 if that's ok?" London cleared the Canberra to climb to flight level 550,and the Grumman pilot obviously not too happy that he'd just been made to look stupid by an aeroplane some 20 years older than his came back with "Yeah ok ok,you made your point.Just how far can you get without having to refuel? (not angrily,with humour in his voice).The Canberra replied "That's classified information I'm afraid.London we're now at FL550,but can take higher if needed"

Guenter
reply to post by dowot

 

Hilarious! Can just imagine the SR-71 asking: "I am holding for WHO?"

If the story is true, the SR-71 would absolutely comply as it is operating in controlled airspace and not restricted. Its mission isn't to cause a passenger airline to deviate and it would give way as to not arise suspicion.

Fun story though.

Great stories guys.

I remember seeing Lightning go through the sound barrier at Biggin, many many years ago. Who remembers the Black Arrows?

Living not that far away, there was always a Tiger Moth in the air to watch, for a long time! Hehe.