Why does faith have to come in good or evil?

reply to post by EnochWasRight

If we desire good, but only for the reward, then we are of a double mind. We are really after the reward. If the reward was taken away, would we still seek good. When planning our upbringing as children, how has God accomplished this free from duplicity, yet still handing our reward for good work? If we desire good, but only to avoid punishment, then we are again of a double mind. The same questions and answer apply. We are really doing it to avoid pain. Again, how has God accomplished punishment, yet avoided the creation of duplicity? The key is found in Galatians 3. Galatians 3 3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by believing what you heard? 3 Are you so foolish? After beginning by means of the Spirit, are you now trying to finish by means of the flesh? 4 Have you experienced so much in vain—if it really was in vain? 5 So again I ask, does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you by the works of the law, or by your believing what you heard? 6 So also Abraham “believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” ---Here, where does the credit come from? Works or faith?

Hi EWR, I feel you have posted these segments and more based upon misinterpreting my statements of Reward for righteousness (and applying them in context to operating under a Law of OT based works to reach the Mansions). IF so, I express such was not my intention at all and I added to my post prior and now here to further clarify for this very reason as I have been associated falsely in that bearing before. I applied my comments within adherence to scripture----and in such, I will apply the Word to testify in furtherance.

Some scriptures on Reward for Good measure in clarity.
www.kingjamesbibleonline.org...

"Jesus Said That There Are Rewards in Heaven
Jesus specifically told us that Heaven is a place where Rewards will be given to the saved. Look at Jesus’ words from the most important sermon Jesus ever gave (the Sermon on the Mount):

Matthew 5:11-12
“Blessed are you when men cast insults at you, and persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, on account of Me. Rejoice, and be glad, for your reward in heaven is great, for so they persecuted the prophets who were before you.”

Matthew 6:1-6
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven. When therefore you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will repay you. And when you pray, you are not to be as the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners, in order to be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will repay you.”

Matthew 6:16-18
“And whenever you fast, do not put on a gloomy face as the hypocrites do, for they neglect their appearance in order to be seen fasting by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you fast, anoint your head, and wash your face so that you may not be seen fasting by men, but by your Father who is in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will repay you.”

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man is going to come in the glory of His Father with His angels; and will then recompense every man according to his deeds.

1 Corinthians 3:11-15
For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds upon the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it, because it is to be revealed with fire; and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. If any man’s work which he has built upon it remains, he shall receive a reward. If any man’s work is burned up, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as through fire.

James 2:14-26 (KJV)
14 What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.25 Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when she had received the messengers, and had sent them out another way?26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

Daniel 12:3
“And those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.”

2 John 4-10
I was very glad to find some of your children walking in truth, just as we have received commandment to do from the Father. And now I ask you, lady, not as writing to you a new commandment, but the one which we have had from the beginning, that we love one another. And this is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, just as you have heard from the beginning, that you should walk in it. For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. Watch yourselves, that you might not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son.

With out good and evil to distinguish one another, their would be no absolutes or reason for perfection. Having just only a existential grey area would led to chaos, because perfection or good wouldn't be available to set a 'good' plan into motion. No reason = no order = chaos= bad

Sounds Anachronistic.

reply to post by benrl


Why is free will dominated by evil? My real question is why does bad over score good? It just isn't right.

reply to post by PrimeLight


I'm going to take the first sentence, and only part of it. If we only desire good.....I think most people desire good, and not for self gratitude, but for all mankind......enough said.

thewholetruth
With out good and evil to distinguish one another, their would be no absolutes or reason for perfection. Having just only a existential grey area would led to chaos, because perfection or good wouldn't be available to set a 'good' plan into motion. No reason = no order = chaos= bad

Sounds Anachronistic.

But why does the bad outweigh the good? Especially since God is the all powerful good and the angels he created are the bad demons.

reply to post by PrimeLight


Hi Primelight,

I have a question for you... and maybe more than one. We will see.

Below, in the very first sentence it starts our with Beware of practicing your righteousness before men otherwise there is no reward in heaven.

Jesus himself was noticed by A LOT of men, women, and children practicing righteousness, correct?

Also, it seems to me that IF there is a reward to be given as in God plays favorites like a good father *cough* does then with all you quoted from the Bible the reward or payment is already paid or rewarded in full.

We have Jesus as saying reward and repay which could mean the same thing. I look at both as cause and effect, basically Karma. Whether it is in this life or the next repaying/rewarding = an effect with the cause.

Matthew 6:1-6
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven. When therefore you give alms, do not sound a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be honored by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing that your alms may be in secret; and your Father who sees in secret will repay you. And when you pray, you are not to be as the hypocrites; for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and on the street corners, in order to be seen by men. Truly I say to you, they have their reward in full. But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will repay you.”

One more question...

Do you REALLY think God endorses one religion over another and ONLY you are saved because you are a "Christian"?

StoutBroux

thewholetruth
With out good and evil to distinguish one another, their would be no absolutes or reason for perfection. Having just only a existential grey area would led to chaos, because perfection or good wouldn't be available to set a 'good' plan into motion. No reason = no order = chaos= bad

Sounds Anachronistic.

But why does the bad outweigh the good? Especially since God is the all powerful good and the angels he created are the bad demons.

edit on 22-10-2013 by StoutBroux because: (no reason given)

There may be moments whereas the bad outweighs the good. Moments in your life, in mine, in the world, however what we can expect always is change. Change is the only constant.

We live in a world filled with energy. Energies are fed off one another in all life forms and organisms.

Even your plants around the house feed off your energy. lol

What you put out is very important.

Thinking positive helps...

To say the bad is outweighing the good seems like a perception call from a moment in time that does not represent the overall picture.

We have to understand that this world we live in is not and will never be rainbows and skittles. If there ever comes a time when this happens it may be in time whereas there is no money system or anything similar to feed off the negativity of greed.

The more greed that takes over men the more negative our world becomes. Greed is a type of selfishness which is the opposite of LOVE! You cannot truly love and be giving of love when you are selfish.

reply to post by MamaJ

Below, in the very first sentence it starts our with Beware of practicing your righteousness before men otherwise there is no reward in heaven. Jesus himself was noticed by A LOT of men, women, and children practicing righteousness, correct?

Hi MamaJ.Yes, the difference being that Yeshua/Jesus was performing his Ministry works via the Holy Spirit of Love, whereas the Pharisees were moreso focused on gloryfying themselves in pride for means of reputation/image before men rather than serving our Father and His children with sincerity of heart.

Also, it seems to me that IF there is a reward to be given as in God plays favorites like a good father *cough* does then with all you quoted from the Bible the reward or payment is already paid or rewarded in full.

Those cleaving to the Good Spirit of our Creator will act accordingly in Good Spirit by measure of both sincere faith and deed, aided by the Holy Spirit as Helper. Do you feel that those who willfully reject his Way of Invitation via Callings to conscience (and more) will find their way into His House?

Do you REALLY think God endorses one religion over another and ONLY you are saved because you are a "Christian"?

Those who truly bear a love in their being for our Creator (test of Faith), and therefore strive to obey to the greatest Law that is Love (test of Virtue), will eventually be Led to His Son in Truth at the Right Hand (Graceful Salvation). Such is a natural course of progression set aside from all organised religion. The relationship with our Creator must become highly personal in great Trust for that Outpouring in reward to flow in moreso, brought to Life within by virtue of the Holy Spirit that knows all of our heart's and mind's desire to find our place in that Graceful Kingdom that was claimed by Blood.

Not all reach the same awakenings at the same 'time', though the signs of Biblical Prophesied Truth will be Revealed moreso--with much Calling so that children understand the Way, Truth and Life and that the cycle is almost through prior to Christ's Harvest of Gathering. The test is still ongoing for souls in this arena and there is always opportunity Provided for Redemption in coming to the Truth willfully in such Divined Callings.

We have Jesus as saying reward and repay which could mean the same thing. I look at both as cause and effect, basically Karma. Whether it is in this life or the next repaying/rewarding = an effect with the cause.

Agreed I hoped that helped to clarify perspective somewhat. It can be difficult to better grasp context when only small verses of scripture are imparted. In essence, the Bible is best read in full to aid broader understandings and for discernment of the more complex metaphors within alluded to as 'mysteries' of a Living Word that are often Revealed to seekers via the Holy Spirit that Gifts the hungry that knock and yearn for the nourishment of Truth within.

Mankind's perception of "evil" is very poor.It is a thin blanket statement that "bad is what is not good .
The majority of sensible intellectually honest people will say about some things (and many ) I didn't "like" the evil/bad that was done to me however I wouldn't change it because I see now it did something that caused good.

This isn't dualism.Good is not dependent upon evil to exist or have meaning.Good is completely autonomous.It is evil that is transformed into good.The mechanism of life (growth) makes it so. Everything that is living has many many "deaths" and resurrections. Yes theses can be very painful and unwanted and can appear to make no sense at all however our perspective is completely skewed by our perception of the physical realm.We cannot observe and measure all that is going on in the physical universe without "changing" them.

A major postulation of quantum physics is a particle has no definitive position or velocity in space time until it is observed and measured. Heisenberg(without the blue meth) uncertainty principle postulates the more one of those factors is measured (position ,velocity) the less the other can be known.The theory of nonlocality postulates two particles of the same atom that are "entangled(influence each other) can be at opposites ends of the UNIVERSE!!....

Our physical life is observation that doesn't tell us everything because our observation of it "alters" it and we simply can't "track and observe" the majority of things that are happening.Good and evil are a type form of quantum entanglement.We didn't know what they are until they are observed(experienced) then measured (judged)...however the fact is like quantum physics ....there is no known way to completely measure both position and velocity accurately even when observed.

Our perception(observation) is if it makes us "feel" good and it meets our judgment(measurement) of beneficial it is "good".An arsonist judges burning things as good ...most of us perceive it as bad.It is a dichotomy. If we insist on measuring things as good or bad without knowing if they are truly entangled with our measurement the results will be skewered.

I am not saying what we "believe" is good is good and what is bad is bad.I am saying we can't always know the true measurement because it is uncertain because both can't be measured fully.It comes down to don't let you left hand know what the right hand is doing.

I suggest...do good when you can because it is the right thing to do and no other reason.To focus on (observe) bad obscures the measurement.Evil does happen....why...Sometimes it is obvious ,,sometimes only after the fact with much meditation on the truth,sometimes (many) not at all however it is a question that cannot be answered fully because it is uncertain.As of now...that is one thing we can be certain of.

benrl

InverseLookingGlass

A sufficient analysis will show that pleasure in all cases, is but the contrast of pain.

Haven't spent much time with children have you? It's adults that torture philosophy. Kids wouldn't waste their time.

So simplistic world views and narratives are the best?

Sometimes. They tend to bring an honest point that needs to be considered. As adults we filter to get to a point rather than just saying what we intend. It's probably because as one grows, one becomes defensive.