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The Russians learned from the NSA?

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posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 11:24 AM
Well, it appears that the Russians have taken quite a bit from the NSA scandals. At least, that is how it appears. It's always possible this would have happened anyway, without the infusion of intelligence they gained from the NSA's loss.

However, it's striking by how similar their approach is to what it started as here.

Such ..reasonable and minor first. So logical and necessary to hear it explained....when it begins. I wonder what it'll look like in Russia in about 10 years? That's what it took for our little security priority to become a nightmare of 1984 warped by even that standard.

Here is what it looks like now, though.

MOSCOW, Oct 21 (Reuters) - Russian authorities are moving to expand surveillance of the Internet by requiring service providers to store all traffic temporarily and make it available to the top domestic intelligence agency.

Under an order drafted by the Communications Ministry, providers would have to install equipment that would record and save all internet traffic for at least 12 hours and grant the security services exclusive access to the data.

Hey Hey! Ho Ho! Big Bro has GOT TO GO! ...Now how do I say that in Russian? Maybe any language is enough, because what they're about to get is beyond that for being plugged into Big Brother 2.0.

The Kommersant daily reported that the Russian order had been drafted with the help of the Federal Security Service (FSB), the successor to the Soviet-era KGB spy agency. It would take effect in July if it receives final government approval.

If implemented as proposed, the order would require the FSB to have access for 12 hours to stored data, including phone numbers, IP addresses, account names, social network activity and e-mail addresses.

It's a brave new world out there, it seems! A world where we can all know each others thoughts ..or at least, some can know the rest of our thoughts and internet wanderings.

I'd make a joke here about how very Soviet this all is and how it would make Stalin proud ...except to note that on this? They're actually copying method and tactic FROM US. Oh...that not only takes all the humor out of it, it makes me feel just a little sick.

How about you, ATS?

posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 12:12 PM
Yep, I concurs.
I cannot stand these nosy freaks. We're just ordinary people tyring to get by, but always, these control freaks thinks they knows BETTER than we how to live our LIVES for US!
That's what I cannot get, these freaks thinks they're better than us and thinks they know what we're supposed to do with our own LIVES.
So I've always been a rebel, always refusing to obey their lies and silly pointless useless regulations, laws, etc... that only serves them, not us.
Pffts. I have nothing but utter CONTEMPT for these freaks. Ha ha ha.
I do not fear them. I pities them. They wastes their lives spying and thinks they can "charges" us for being human, when it's themselves who are damaged in their souls, their utter need to control everyone around themselves. Poor fools! Ha ha ha!
And at the end of their lives, they'll either dies exactly the same useless creeps that they are, or very few of them wises up and realised what their have come to, an utter waste of time. Ha ha ha! Bet that makes them feels so empty! Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha!
Life is so much better, enjoy life, to hell with rules and useless laws and regulations. Just enjoy life for its own sake! Praise Jesus! Yeah, I'm a jesus freak, I won't push that on ya, cause I know now, after a few years studying, I realised that Jesus is literally the only way and the way the world are, most are going in several directions, whatever they believes, are being perpetuated by the media, so as to distracts people from the truth, and so they're all going in many directions and that suits the powers-that-be very well, who pushes their silly snake-worships in all sorts of ways, through the media... you've seen it. I've noticed how the media always sets up their government agencies as the good guys and the bad guys? All sorts, mostly the PUBLIC, is made to be the bad guys. Take the X-Files, I got the whole series and no matter what crap story I sees, it's all the same agendas, "Aliens are real, UFO's are real, Ghosts are real, monsters are real, and on and on", yet it's all from the same tree, the pagan tree, all trying to get people to ignore Jesus, the REAL Jesus, not the fake one that most people are used to after these many centuries. (sighs).
Truth, is what they hated. They loves LIES. They're always all over the place. The winds blows, and they shifts. But with Jesus, you stay in one place, and it's very secured. And that's what they hated. This is what I discovered after a long time studying, weeding out the fake and disinfo and all sorts. It wasn't easy.
The elites may have technology, but it's not much. We're still stuck in the 19th century, with only a few techs that's a bit advanced, but mostly, we're still stuck. Today, we're supposed to be advancing toward the Star Trek type of 21st Century, yet... the world is still messed up. It seemed worse, but it's really the same stuff like it always was for a long time, just new names, new settings, but same recycled crap, dare I say.
That's how I figured.
I always HATED 1984, that damned movie with that ugly sound track, and then the book... no English subtitles to know what the story was about, so I found that book and tried to read it and always, the same rubbish, bloke tyring to find truth, but ugly government man talking doublespeak... I hated that. Jesus is plain speak, no doublespeak, yet these control freaks are double speak and acts like they're your friends, but in reality, they're stabbing you in the back, not like Jesus would. It's all about what these freaks really are. They're sinners like you and me, the only one who is NOT a sinner is Jesus, and there it is, the truth that these sinners hides with their silly stories, trying to distracts us with their fancy lies.
Long time ago I have relatives in Belarus who died, murdered by these Bolsheviks who thinks they're making a better world. The irony is, how can you kill thinking you're making a better world? You don't. To make a better world, you do not kill, but talk about it, making it clear, plain, no games, honest, might as well say it, Jesus way. To kill is to do it Satan's way. Them Bolsheviks got a lot to answer for. I grew up hating them, trying to understand them, but never understanding nothing of their silliness. Communism is insane. Feminism is insane. All the isms is insane. The only sane thing is Jesus. That's all I figured. The government, they thinks they're gods, they thinks they can get away with stuff, so they acts the way they do, thinking they can be like gods to everyone, when they're supposed to be SERVING the public, not the other way around.
The only GOD there is, is Jesus, not these self-styled fools who thinks they're better than us ordinary mortals. I'll dance and laughs when these "intelligence" agencies, men and women both, gets sick and have infections and all sorts. They're same as me. Sinners, nothing more. Proned to illnesses, sicknesses, old age. They're not gods. They're not impervious to bullets and able to leap tall buildings. Ha ha ha! They're not SUPERMEN/SUPERWOMEN! Ha ha ha!
Thus I do not fear these spies, these weak, low, men. Ha ha ha ha ha! They are nothing but worthless slugs. They're paid to do useless "makework" that don't serve anyone. Me, I'll be doing real work, that makes a difference to everyone. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. None can deny this. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha! John 14:6 KJB

posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 12:15 PM
Well there is one big difference between this and the NSA (and lets be honest here GCHQ and its New Zealand and Australian equivalents )- at last the Russian system would be legal!
Seems like every single check in place on our systems has been ignored...

posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 12:24 PM
I would have thought that the NSA learned from the Russians!

I guess it really doesn't matter which country you live in, all governments spy on their citizens. What I would really like to know is how many lives have been saved by these invasive surveillance techniques?

posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 12:25 PM
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

if the nsa has access to communications everywhere, let others also know.

the more goverment players, the more likely to have more snowdens.

wikileak and snowden forever!

posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 12:40 PM
reply to post by MystikMushroom

I think that's the ultimate reality and the end result we have to face. China's been on it's people with things like the "Great fireWall" for many years, with far more than that, they deal with regularly. Russia's security services are anything but babes in the woods or innocent by any definition. We, of course, know all about ours by now.

So, I guess the moral of the story is...when a Government has the means, money and ability to MAKE legal anything they choose to do? Well, the concept of restraint seems to hinge entirely on 'what will we get caught for?'.

@ Maxsteiner

I'm not sure just what laws have broken? I mean the US Intelligence Community. That's the whole problem here. They danced on the line like the proverbial angels on a pinhead until they started to fall off, then had the FISA Court start ruling new legal precedent to make everything to come, nice and legal too.

I'd love it if one hard and fast law could be found and pointed to, to say AH-HA! That is the law they broke and they broke it right in half!

I'm just not sure there is one .... Not that there shouldn't be, but they have been real clever in everything done for it.
edit on 21-10-2013 by Wrabbit2000 because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 01:30 PM
reply to post by Wrabbit2000

I'd say it's quite a few, but it's just a bunch of hazy 4th Amendment stuff (quite solid though, scroll down to see). Over here we've had various government ministers saying the MoD kept them in the dark about what was going on - which is quite a large breach under our system (since the Minster for Defence would be expected to resign under ministerial responsibility for MoD cockups it's only fair he be kept in the loop), at the very least the Data Protection act seems to have been ignored over here.

Regarding the laws the NSA broke though, it's own internal audit found them to be breaking their legal safe guards upwards of a thousand times a year!

Having looked into it, the key precedent is U.S. v. Warshak in which it was held that Emails had the same 4th amendment protections afforded to regular mail. This was upheld by the IRS following the ACLU discovering they'd been reading emails without warrants.

This is further backed up when the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court (seemingly the ONLY US court allowed to legislate the NSA) ruled in 2011 that the email surveillance carried out between 2008 and 2011 was illegal (this information was released under the freedom of information act - and its worth pointing out that they were doing FAR MORE than was public knowledge at that time).

So basically the only oversight committee finds they're breaking the law and it's covered up - then Snowden releases data which is corroborated by documents requested under FoIA and they move to change the law...

Admittedly I am completely unsurprised that they wont face any consequences (sure as hell isn't going to happen over here either), but that does seem like pretty damning proof of wrong doing.

More importantly (or at the very least incontrovertibly) in March this year James Clapper – the Director of National Intelligence assured congress that the NSA does not collect "Any type of data at all" - thats perjury right there

(I'd provide sources, but there is actually a load of information available)
edit on 21-10-2013 by MaxSteiner because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 01:45 PM
Looking into it a bit more they're in contravention of Executive Order 12333 (President Ronald Reagan, 1981) and the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 (FISA) (50 USC Chapter 36) both of which expressly forbid surveillance carried out on US citizens.

Really good article breaking it down here (which surprised me, the Guardian and Washington Post article are so watered down it makes you wonder....)

posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 01:47 PM
Nothing new under the sun. It's all the same. It happened before, it will still happen in the future. Nothing new at all. There'll always be fearmongers and control freaks who thinks they can spy and get away with evil deeds to justify their actions. It all happened before, many times, in many countries, doubtless many civilisations destroyed themselves because of these freaks, and ours are no different, we'll go down fighting and be wiped out and many peoples will comes up in our stead and they'll fight for their freedom and on and on and on. Never ending. The freedom-haters will always try to justify their fear of freedom to control everyone and everything and en the end they destroys themselves in the foot and they never wise up to their own fears and insanities...

Nothing new under the sun. We live, we die. The only aspect of our lives is what we do with our lives. The pointless waste of time in spying for purposes of control, games, etc or the useful problem-solving of making the world a better place for all, not for the selected few, as the "elites" morons thinks they can do their evil by forcing their evil on the rest of us. We don't have to kowtow to these freaks, we go our own way, and stay free. No worries.

All these "intelligence" communities with their endless crises of "solving problems" is nothing more than self-masturbation for the justification of having a job watching the fictitious "criminals" when the REAL criminals are those with too much money and power, they're the ones who needs to be watched and controlled, not the ordinary mortals trying to get by living on little means.

These "elites" with their power games, useless as they are, will always waste resources, as such, they are nothing but children playing silly games. Ha ha ha ha.

I wouldn't worry about them. They are of no consequences.

posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 01:51 PM
~Woops double post~
edit on 21-10-2013 by MaxSteiner because: (no reason given)

posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 01:54 PM
Defman, your first post in this thread was your first ever, quite a memorable first post, your second in this thread is your 6th, what is it about this particular topic that spurned you to sign up and take the plunge?

posted on Oct, 21 2013 @ 03:28 PM
reply to post by MaxSteiner

Well, here is a question on that. It may be how they made it right in their minds, too.

Could the FISA Court have issued decisions excepting or otherwise making legal what appears to be illegal by non-classified law we can read? Also... How many Exec's has Obama signed and how many of those are accounted for in open copies we can see?

It's not that I disagree for a moment in the wrong doing. Once upon a time, the Charter against Intelligence collection on US Citizens meant something, in spirit if not law. It means a punch line to the joke these days.

I just wonder how thoroughly they covered themselves in ways not entirely clear...but covered nonetheless.

Also.. if FISA or other Judicial sources made rulings to legalize what they did the NSA still in violation, if that's found improper? entirely new twist, can the Court itself be held in violation of the law in a prosecutable way?

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