Why was Yahweh a stay at home Deity?

Grimpachi

Every prophet chosen and every action in the Bible, Torah or the Koran happened in this tiny circle unless you are Mormon.

So what’s the deal? Does he not care about the rest of the world?

Hmmmm.

edit on 20-10-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

It had to happen somewhere, and now it happens everywhere...

en.wikipedia.org...

I suppose human beings are not the speediest agency. It's funny, though, how there is not very much of a concentration of Christianity any longer at that shared epicenter.

reply to post by WarminIndy


The point wasn't to get into great detail about the Hittites, only to show Israel knew about Anatolia, and were the only nation at the time that has remaining historical documentation about them. That is sufficient to prove the premise in the OP false.

There is also Elam, whom they considered to be Semitic and the descendants of Noah's son Elam.

They talked a lot of the area they were in, and were in the middle of a trade route that extended to China. To say they thought the whole world consisted of that small circle is extraordinarily wrong.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

Did the Israelites think the items were created by magic?

I can hardly believe you asked that. Did they believe in magic...yes. The Bible is full of it.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the Mediterranean Sea within the circle which means the Hittie empire is as well. I am pretty sure the map I posted shows that.


Do you have anything other than them saying they knew of a road that went east?

When I look up biblical maps this is what I get.

Grimpachi
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

Did the Israelites think the items were created by magic?

I can hardly believe you asked that. Did they believe in magic...yes. The Bible is full of it.

Correct me if I am wrong but isn't the Mediterranean Sea within the circle which means the Hittie empire is as well. I am pretty sure the map I posted shows that.


Do you have anything other than them saying they knew of a road that went east?

East to where? Roads lead somewhere. Even if they did not know much about the actual places, they knew places existed.

Perhaps you can share Biblical verses that talk about magic creating these items. I will await them.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

East to where? Roads lead somewhere. Even if they did not know much about the actual places, they knew places existed.

Perhaps you can share Biblical verses that talk about magic creating these items. I will await them.

I guess you have no objections about the Hittie empire not being in the circle.

lol you brought up magic I think it’s entirely possible why not they believed in all kinds of magical things like unicorns. I can definitely pull up references for that. Didn't some king have a magical ring to control demons yet you seem to scoff at the idea that they would think other things are magic. So it isn't out of the scope of possibility.

Think about this the believed the Ark myth now if they had knowledge of all the other lands then they would have enough knowledge of all the other animals and know the Ark myth was completely bogus. So which is it did they actually know or not.

Grimpachi
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

East to where? Roads lead somewhere. Even if they did not know much about the actual places, they knew places existed.

Perhaps you can share Biblical verses that talk about magic creating these items. I will await them.

lol you brought up magic I think it’s entirely possible why not they believed in all kinds of magical things like unicorns.

No, they did not. Unicorn was a KJV translation, it's not found in the actual texts. KJV is pretty bad as far as translation goes. So, sorry to disappoint, unicorns are not in the Bible.

I can definitely pull up references for that. Didn't some king have a magical ring to control demons yet you seem to scoff at the idea that they would think other things are magic. So it isn't out of the scope of possibility.

Please, show me that in the Bible. I told you, I am waiting. Pull up the Bible verses dealing with Solomon's magical demon controlling ring.

Think about this the believed the Ark myth now if they had knowledge of all the other lands then they would have enough knowledge of all the other animals and know the Ark myth was completely bogus. So which is it did they actually know or not.

Great, they you can show me exactly where they talk about magic creating exotic goods that come down a road that leads nowhere. Please, show me.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


First I want to be clear Hittie empire???????

Is that covered or not. I want to be sure.

Grimpachi
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

I would say there is a huge difference between knowing about a trading route and having knowledge of the country items came from.

So what were you saying about the Hittie Empire?

I keep trying to find where all this stuff is mentioned in the Bible and how it corelates so is the Map as expected?

Edit

I will say this I have said that if Jesus actually existed then he must have learned Buddhism and that is what he taught.

edit on 20-10-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

Even those today who still claim to be Persian acknowledge the Jews as being there since 727 BC.

The origin of the Jewish diaspora in Persia is connected to the deportation of Israelites in 727 B.C. from Samaria to Media and Persia. The famous "Cyrus Declaration" allowed the Jews who were living in exile by the river of Babylon to return to their homeland, Judea, to rebuild their lives. But some who had established themselves economically and socially preferred to remain on Babylonian-Persian soil.

The Romans, Greeks and Egyptians were all traders with the Far East, in fact mummies have been found wearing silk made in China. So that's more than just knowing about a trade route, it is actually trading for items. In China and India, there is evidence of pomegranates that only grew in the Middle-East.

And the prophets were not just centered in this little area, as Daniel, Haggai, Amos, Nehemiah and Jeremiah, to name a few, were in Persia. We know that Sushan did exist as well as Shinar, which today Iranians still call it Shinar.

Yaweh is not actually Yaweh to the ancient Hebrews, He was actually just referred to as "the four letters" but when people found the Ugarit texts, they discovered a god named Yaweh along with a god named El, and a god named Ba'al. In the Bible it describes the women weeping for Tammuz, that's a month in the Hebrew calendar, but Tammuz is an Akkadian god. Not only that, another Akkadian god Shamash also makes his way into Hebrew religion, the Shamash is the middle candle of the menorah, from which all other candles are lit. Shamash was the sun god in Akkadia, which is well east of the map.

The countries listed in the Bible are far reaching, in fact India is mentioned. Burma is not and neither are the Himalayas. Ur of the Chaldees has been found, in southern Iran, near what is today Pakistan. But if you looked at a map 70 years ago, you wouldn't find Pakistan on it, and neither would you find Yugoslavia. For a short time you would have found Czeckoslovakia, now those are separated. So you have to remember that place names do change and it is reflected in the Bible given the expanse of time in which the different books were written. The Bible generally deals with kingdoms rather than nations. You won't find Anatolia as the word is used but you do find the Hittites. Ilyria is mentioned in the New Testament and it is a city near Croatia and Serbia.

The Bible also refers to the Lydians, which were in Anatolia, just after the Hittite kingdom.

The most important thing to remember is that the Hebrew Bible was written in Hebrew and reflected the Hebrew names for places, unless the translator knew what countries were referenced. That's why you see Aram and Syria seeming to be two different places, when in fact they were the same place. So as the Hebrew Bible gives Hebraic names, just as the Egyptians gave Egyptian place names and so forth for every kingdom, you have to look outside to see what others are saying also in their own languages.

The Behustan Inscription gives the same account from the Book of Daniel about the fall of Belshazzar. But in the Behustan Inscription, they are not called Nebuchadnezzar and Belshazzar, rather they are called Cambyses and Gaumata as it is in Parsa. While Cyrus worships Ahura Mazda, there is no distinction made as being different than Yaweh. It is therefore believed that Ahura Mazda and Yaweh were the same God, just in two different languages.

Grimpachi
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

First I want to be clear Hittie empire???????

Is that covered or not. I want to be sure.

The Hittites were mentioned in the Bible but they were simply part of the great Turkic area. The Turkic people worshipped the Sky Father they called Tengri. They also have the oldest known religious structure at Catal Huyuk. As Tengri was called the Sky Father, he bears a striking resemblance to Yaweh. But Tengrism is found throughout the East and Far East. He even appears in Mongolia.

Grimpachi
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

First I want to be clear Hittie empire???????

Is that covered or not. I want to be sure.

It's hard to see but the larger circle you drew later does appear to cover it.

reply to post by WarminIndy


Why hasn't anyone drawn a map showing what the bible encompasses? I think that would be fairly important. When I look up biblical maps it doesn't show much.

Grimpachi
reply to post by WarminIndy

 

Why hasn't anyone drawn a map showing what the bible encompasses? I think that would be fairly important. When I look up biblical maps it doesn't show much.

Mainly because the concept is completely unimportant for Christians / Jews. No one does that for any other country or religion either.

It would require a LOT of time, but if you have a few years on your hands you could make one.

Just an FYI, the Bible is used as a reference in determing how well known Silk was to the area.

OccamsRazor04

Grimpachi
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

First I want to be clear Hittie empire???????

Is that covered or not. I want to be sure.

It's hard to see but the larger circle you drew later does appear to cover it.

Alright cool. I just wanted to be sure.

now

No, they did not. Unicorn was a KJV translation, it's not found in the actual texts. KJV is pretty bad as far as translation goes. So, sorry to disappoint, unicorns are not in the Bible.

•Numbers 23:22 “God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.”
•Numbers 24:8 “God brought him forth out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn: he shall eat up the nations his enemies, and shall break their bones, and pierce them through with his arrows.”
•Job 39:9 “Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?”
•Job 39:10 “Canst thou bind the unicorn with his band in the furrow? or will he harrow the valleys after thee?”
•Psalms 29:6 “He maketh them also to skip like a calf; Lebanon and Sirion like a young unicorn.”
•Psalms 92:10 “But my horn shalt thou exalt like the horn of an unicorn: I shall be anointed with fresh oil.”
•Deuteronomy 33:17 “His glory is like the firstling of his bullock, and his horns are like the horns of unicorns: with them he shall push the people together to the ends of the earth: and they are the ten thousands of Ephraim, and they are the thousands of Manasseh.”
•Psalms 22:21 “Save me from the lion’s mouth: for thou hast heard me from the horns of the unicorns.”
•Isaiah 34:7 “And the unicorns shall come down with them, and the bullocks with the bulls; and their land shall be soaked with blood, and their dust made fat with fatness.”

Please, show me that in the Bible. I told you, I am waiting. Pull up the Bible verses dealing with Solomon's magical demon controlling ring.

Seal of Solomon
en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

In Medieval Jewish, Christian and Islamic legends, the Seal of Solomon was a magical signet ring said to have been possessed by King Solomon, which variously gave him the power to command demons, genies (or jinni), or to speak with animals. It has the properties of both amulets and talismans.

Now here is the thing if you are going to say unicorn is mistranslated or the ring was a seal then you admit that over time the bible has changed both the words and by default the meaning to things and there is no reason the Silk Road/Silk Route wouldn’t be the same.


Edit

I have to take off for a bit I will check back later or in the morning.

Grimpachi
•Numbers 23:22 “God brought them out of Egypt; he hath as it were the strength of an unicorn.”

Num 23:22
God brought them out of Egypt; they have the strength of a wild ox.

I told you, KJV decided to throw in Unicorn. The word does not mean that. It is not in the Bible. What translation did you use? KJV.

Strongs: h7214
Meaning: probably the great aurochs or wild bulls which are now extinct. The exact meaning is not known.

Hebrew: רְאֵם rĕ'em

Grimpachi

OccamsRazor04

Please, show me that in the Bible. I told you, I am waiting. Pull up the Bible verses dealing with Solomon's magical demon controlling ring.

Seal of Solomon
en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

In Medieval Jewish, Christian and Islamic legends, the Seal of Solomon was a magical signet ring said to have been possessed by King Solomon, which variously gave him the power to command demons, genies (or jinni), or to speak with animals. It has the properties of both amulets and talismans.

Yes, MEDIEVAL. Meaning it is NOT in the Bible, and has nothing to do with the Bible. You might as well say King Arthur and the sword Excalibur are from the Bible. So why are you giving me NON-BIBLICAL tales of some magical ring and saying the Bible talks about it?

Now here is the thing if you are going to say unicorn is mistranslated or the ring was a seal then you admit that over time the bible has changed both the words and by default the meaning to things and there is no reason the Silk Road/Silk Route wouldn’t be the same.

edit on 20-10-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

Edit

I have to take off for a bit I will check back later or in the morning.

edit on 21-10-2013 by Grimpachi because: (no reason given)

No, the Bible did not change, and the only talks about Solomon's Ring you have are NOT from the Bible. How does something that has NOTHING to do with the Bible mean the Bible has been altered?

The animal mentioned and translated as Unicorn in the KJV is simply an unknown animal. They decided in their infinite wisdom UNICORNS! That's because the KJV is a bad translation. The original words are still there and unchanged.

The UNDERSTANDING of how to best translate the Bible into English has changed, the Bible has not been.

reply to post by OccamsRazor04


And as they used to say...all roads lead to Rome.

They traded by caravans and ships. The ancient world was very connected and the Phoenicians...near the Hittites were the most famous sea farers ever.

WarminIndy
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

 

And as they used to say...all roads lead to Rome.

They traded by caravans and ships. The ancient world was very connected and the Phoenicians...near the Hittites were the most famous sea farers ever.

Not to mention Alexander the Great conquered the area, which means they knew of him and his armies and his homeland.

It was a policy of contacting people within the small circle and getting them to contact others.
Which is precisely what has happened.
The knowledge of events within that small circle has spread all over the world, hasn't it?

@op... Look at it this way... India is the land where hinduism and buddhism, (sikhism and Jainism) originated. Just because the holy books of those religions don't make referencss to empires in the western hemisphere, it doesnt mean they ancient hindus and buddhists were unaware of the outside world. The reason being ''holy books'' were not intended to be world encyclopedias or atlases. They were about the spiritual beliefs of specific peoples. The Israelite books were writtn by the israelites and so naturally addressed the Israelite people.

reply to post by Grimpachi



There is a pattern of progression for Deities that they begin at a small local level, progress say to a City State Deity and then on to the National, from there to the global...if successful