Solution to the debt crisis. Do not vote for republicans or democrats EVER AGAIN!

I'm sorry, what comes to mind when I read suggestions such as the OP's is to rename the thread "Don Quixote Politics."

Last year, third-party types did pretty well in the presidential election. Let's say that with a huge effort and lots of effort, we can increase their vote 500%. Let's further say, that all of the non-Republicans - Democrats vote for the same party.

That party will get 7.5% of the vote. So forget 2016. How about 2020? Well, to get the Presidency, the independent candidate has to win a majority of the electoral college votes. Not a chance in the world he'll get over 50%. If no candidate does, then it goes to the House with each state having one vote. If that doesn't work, then the same thing is done in the Senate.

Do you really think that a either the House or Senate will have a majority of independent members in 2018, just five years from now? The only sane answer is, they won't.

So, at least until 2024, there isn't a chance for an independent candidate for President. By then will we still even have a United States?

reply to post by Spookybelle



A professional politician is more interested in their personal interest and how the people can serve them by gaining power than they are being the servant to the people they are supposed to be.

The Independent Party would hold their feet to the fire.

grandmakdw
reply to post by Spookybelle

 

A professional politician is more interested in their personal interest and how the people can serve them by gaining power than they are being the servant to the people they are supposed to be.

The Independent Party would hold their feet to the fire.

Until they are the premier party and they play the game as it is played today; the notion that they will somehow be above the game as we see today, being the minority as they are now, is disingenuous at best.

reply to post by charles1952


The American people are totally fed up with the current situation. Recent polls show that 85% do not trust their elected officials.

If there was ever a time for a third party to emerge and win, it is now.

reply to post by ownbestenemy

ownbestenemy
What makes you think that they will not fall into the same rut as the current power-hungry bunch has? Just curious...

A true libertarian party would be working to decentralize and limit all political power (including their own): the very opposite of being power-hungry.

Also, a true libertarian party could never be compliant with the system that is the underlying reason for your debt crisis, and thus your best bet for a real solution.

I'm not sure if you have a truly libertarian party though.

ownbestenemy

grandmakdw
reply to post by Spookybelle

 

A professional politician is more interested in their personal interest and how the people can serve them by gaining power than they are being the servant to the people they are supposed to be.

The Independent Party would hold their feet to the fire.

Until they are the premier party and they play the game as it is played today; the notion that they will somehow be above the game as we see today, being the minority as they are now, is disingenuous at best.

And at that time, in the far future, it will be time for a new third party to arise to return the government to the people where it belongs. But for now, I see this as the best and most viable option.

grandmakdw
reply to post by Spookybelle

 

It is not important where the "party" stands on any given issue. It is important what the candidate promises to his/her constituents.

It is a radically different approach to a political party.

There are no proscribed social or policy positions, only to uphold the Constitution and Bill of rights and to create and publicly publish the values, goals and platform of the individual running and being held to what the members promise they will or will not do.

This is an outside the box, totally in your face, new way of looking at what is important and what is in the best interest of the American people.

That is the problem you are not connecting with. Your usage of the word "party" is not applicable here. What you are referring to is a contract that a politician verbally signs with his constituents regardless of what party he belongs to and this has been tried with the Tea Party and pretty much failed.

The candidates promised not to ever raise taxes and I'm sure your aware of the mess that created. Grover Norquist put the politicians on the spot with a commitment to their voters and it did not work because its counter-productive when there are things that may have to be manipulated within the halls of Congress to get legislation moving and passed.

Simply throwing up roadblocks to everything because of a pledge is a very dangerous and one-sided approach when many problems facing politicians require flexibility.

What your suggesting has been tried. Its not a new idea.

grandmakdw
reply to post by charles1952

 

The American people are totally fed up with the current situation. Recent polls show that 85% do not trust their elected officials.

If there was ever a time for a third party to emerge and win, it is now.

A legitimate third party is simply not possible within the American political system. All views will fall under either the democratic banner or the republican one.

In order to make a platform that is separate from the two major parties you would put yourself so far out of mainstream America that you would get hardly any votes.

If you come more to the center your either agreeing with the democrats or republicans on issues.

ownbestenemy

grandmakdw


Term limits help to keep corruption away, also helps to keep "lifer" mentality of "I deserve the power, and the people serve me." attitude of our current government.

You mean the term-limits that are already in place that keep the power in the hands of the People rather than a Government telling them they cannot vote for someone they believe in? I know it may seem broken and quite frankly it is, but term-limits; as ascribed by law, won't fix things since we already have them and we just vote people back into office who "bring home the bacon" anyway.

I am by no means an expert here but it seems that many, many voters vote on a straight party ballot.
It's sad to say but many do not know what most candidates stand for. The just look for the "D" or the "R".
This gives career politicians a huge advantage.
The longer these folks stay in office, the more out of touch they become with the people and reality.

Azdraik
How about getting rid of parties all together.

Then again that would mean that people have to research candidates and see what they stand for. The zombies have better things to do like play games, watch tv, hang with the other zombies ect.

From what you just said, I too agree that it's a great time to start up the Zombie Party.

Evil Santa for prez. 2016, representing the Zombie party.

"Because Jesus took too long..."

Quadrivium

ownbestenemy

grandmakdw


Term limits help to keep corruption away, also helps to keep "lifer" mentality of "I deserve the power, and the people serve me." attitude of our current government.

You mean the term-limits that are already in place that keep the power in the hands of the People rather than a Government telling them they cannot vote for someone they believe in? I know it may seem broken and quite frankly it is, but term-limits; as ascribed by law, won't fix things since we already have them and we just vote people back into office who "bring home the bacon" anyway.

I am by no means an expert here but it seems that many, many voters vote on a straight party ballot.
It's sad to say but many do not know what most candidates stand for. The just look for the "D" or the "R".
This gives career politicians a huge advantage.
The longer these folks stay in office, the more out of touch they become with the people and reality.

Yes but these people are going to vote a straight ticket regardless if the person is a 10 term senator or a first term senator. Your statement in no way address the fact that a new guy coming in is going to be better than the guy going out.

I have yet to hear a credible argument to justify why term-limits are needed at the congressional level.

Quadrivium

ownbestenemy

grandmakdw


Term limits help to keep corruption away, also helps to keep "lifer" mentality of "I deserve the power, and the people serve me." attitude of our current government.

You mean the term-limits that are already in place that keep the power in the hands of the People rather than a Government telling them they cannot vote for someone they believe in? I know it may seem broken and quite frankly it is, but term-limits; as ascribed by law, won't fix things since we already have them and we just vote people back into office who "bring home the bacon" anyway.

I am by no means an expert here but it seems that many, many voters vote on a straight party ballot.
It's sad to say but many do not know what most candidates stand for. The just look for the "D" or the "R".
This gives career politicians a huge advantage.
The longer these folks stay in office, the more out of touch they become with the people and reality.

Personally I vote with a strict "Anything but R" rule. As there weren't any Democrat, Socialism or Communism choices in my areas this last election cycle, the Constitution party got all of my votes except for the presidential election.

You know what - I'm against picking parties over issues but I'm gonna say I'm with you on this. That is "if" there is a Country left when we get there. I feel sick about today (literally). Lets please make a list. Then lets share the list with anyone who will spread it around (if someone knows how to do this).

So far today I have seen evidence of

1. Bribes - Kentucky for a vote and another who voted for obamacare because he was bribed awhile back.

2. The government get their health care paid for - in full.

3. They have been given an open check to do with what they please.


I said it in another thread. People have been conditioned - pot in boiling water scenario. If this would have happened in my grandparents day they would have overtaken the government. If it all happened in the matter of a day or week we would be doing something.

Today it is too difficult to even look at (even I tune it out as a way to cope with what's happening). I see why people feel hopeless. I know because I feel it. I know why we have given up. We made them huge. We gave them power willingly and now its out of control.

Evil_Santa

Quadrivium

ownbestenemy

grandmakdw


Term limits help to keep corruption away, also helps to keep "lifer" mentality of "I deserve the power, and the people serve me." attitude of our current government.

You mean the term-limits that are already in place that keep the power in the hands of the People rather than a Government telling them they cannot vote for someone they believe in? I know it may seem broken and quite frankly it is, but term-limits; as ascribed by law, won't fix things since we already have them and we just vote people back into office who "bring home the bacon" anyway.

I am by no means an expert here but it seems that many, many voters vote on a straight party ballot.
It's sad to say but many do not know what most candidates stand for. The just look for the "D" or the "R".
This gives career politicians a huge advantage.
The longer these folks stay in office, the more out of touch they become with the people and reality.

Personally I vote with a strict "Anything but R" rule. As there weren't any Democrat, Socialism or Communism choices in my areas this last election cycle, the Constitution party got all of my votes except for the presidential election.

Absolutely nothing wrong with voting a straight party ticket and many people do so. This is the importance of parties in our system in that you can vote for a party in general and have a pretty good idea of what you are going to get.

This is an advantage over the parliamentary system where the voters must research every single candidate because there are so many to choose from.

Spookybelle
Yes but these people are going to vote a straight ticket regardless if the person is a 10 term senator or a first term senator. Your statement in no way address the fact that a new guy coming in is going to be better than the guy going out.

I have yet to hear a credible argument to justify why term-limits are needed at the congressional level.

I am in agreement but I would argue that term-limits are actually in effect and they are rightfully left to the People (and formally the States, pre 17th Amendment) to decide if they they need to be exacted or not.

I find it interesting (not pointing this at you specifically) that people clamor on about more "democracy" but yet demand that the Government limit their democratic ability via limits...baffles me.

Dianec
You know what - I'm against picking parties over issues but I'm gonna say I'm with you on this. That is "if" there is a Country left when we get there. I feel sick about today (literally). Lets please make a list. Then lets share the list with anyone who will spread it around (if someone knows how to do this).

So far today I have seen evidence of

1. Bribes - Kentucky for a vote and another who voted for obamacare because he was bribed awhile back.

2. The government get their health care paid for - in full.

3. They have been given an open check to do with what they please.


I said it in another thread. People have been conditioned - pot in boiling water scenario. If this would have happened in my grandparents day they would have overtaken the government. If it all happened in the matter of a day or week we would be doing something.

Today it is too difficult to even look at (even I tune it out as a way to cope with what's happening). I see why people feel hopeless. I know because I feel it. I know why we have given up. We made them huge. We gave them power willingly and now its out of control.

This did happen in your grandparents day. In fact, it has happened in every Congress and Presidential Administration since Washington.

I'm speaking of corruption in general, not your specific points of course.

Even now, with his failures, dishonesty, and disregard for the Constitution more evident than ever, Obama's favorable ratings are at about 40%.

Assume everybody else in the country has votes that are up for grabs. How will that 60% center, center right, and right voters go. I can't imagine the Republicans falling from 47% in the last election, to 27%, but if they did that, along with Obama's favorables would account for 2/3 of the electorate.

I suppose I'm saying that a third party has no chance at the presidency for the foreseeable future. They may pick up one or two Senators, and maybe as many as a dozen representatives. But if people were serious about a smaller government they'd be supporting the Tea Party, which already has an organization and some influence. Gary Johnson got just a spit less than 1% of the national vote. Where do you go from there? 3%?

ownbestenemy

Spookybelle
Yes but these people are going to vote a straight ticket regardless if the person is a 10 term senator or a first term senator. Your statement in no way address the fact that a new guy coming in is going to be better than the guy going out.

I have yet to hear a credible argument to justify why term-limits are needed at the congressional level.

I am in agreement but I would argue that term-limits are actually in effect and they are rightfully left to the People (and formally the States, pre 17th Amendment) to decide if they they need to be exacted or not.

I find it interesting (not pointing this at you specifically) that people clamor on about more "democracy" but yet demand that the Government limit their democratic ability via limits...baffles me.

And that was exactly my point. All term-limits do is limit people's choice on who they wish to represent them. It will not change one thing about how the government functions.

The President is different of course simply because of the amount of individual power he has but Congress does not have that problem.

I see no reason they should be told to leave if their people are happy with the job they are doing.

Evil_Santa
Personally I vote with a strict "Anything but R" rule. As there weren't any Democrat, Socialism or Communism choices in my areas this last election cycle, the Constitution party got all of my votes except for the presidential election.

Take note that I am not disparaging your voting practice, it is merely a good example to highlight. What if the candidate with an "R" behind his/her name actually has good ideas but you have already written them off because of a mere letter associated with them; and not what they stand for...

I think that is the crux of the problem and that is party-line voting and how it has completely entwined itself to the most local level of our political processes.

charles1952
Even now, with his failures, dishonesty, and disregard for the Constitution more evident than ever, Obama's favorable ratings are at about 40%.

Assume everybody else in the country has votes that are up for grabs. How will that 60% center, center right, and right voters go. I can't imagine the Republicans falling from 47% in the last election, to 27%, but if they did that, along with Obama's favorables would account for 2/3 of the electorate.

I suppose I'm saying that a third party has no chance at the presidency for the foreseeable future. They may pick up one or two Senators, and maybe as many as a dozen representatives. But if people were serious about a smaller government they'd be supporting the Tea Party, which already has an organization and some influence. Gary Johnson got just a spit less than 1% of the national vote. Where do you go from there? 3%?

A solid third party is not possible but I will say this. They would have a chance if they ran on a single issue that was galvanizing the nation.

That would be the only way they could be elected in enough numbers to gain power. I don't see any issue that big on the horizon however.