Why is "Holocaust revisionism" a crime

In all honesty if you do the math it seems rather exagerated to say the least...

It is estimated that 11 million people were killed during the Holocaust. Six million of these were Jews. That's what tptb who wrote history claim.

But in all the video footage I seen at most you ever saw was a pile of bodies that were about maybe 100 to a few hundred tops in one pile.

Now think about this.... in order to kill 11 million people you'd need to dig holes the size of football stadiums. You'd see piles of people in those videos reaching like as high as a 20 story building. In any video I seen at most I saw a few hundred people in a pile. Still absolutely horrific and terrible but if you want to count bodies that how many there were at most.

Now also factor this in: approximately 9.5 million Jews lived in all of Europe curing WW2. Yet they're trying to claim that almost 2/3rds of them were killed by nazi's. Over 66% of them in all of europe? I don't think so. I find that very hard to believe.

Naaa I think the numbers were grossly exaggerated for the simple fact that the victors of war write history. I'm not saying that makes the nazi's any better either. They're still bad people obviously.

What I'm trying to point out though is the tptb lie all the time. Absolutely not to be trusted in any way shape or form. We can't even fully believe our history books.

alldaylong

buster2010

intrepid

Astrocyte
NAZI documents, pictures, newspaper articles, testimonials - to prove it's existence.

There is something very sick and creepy about dedicating your life to disproving the holocaust.

MILES of documentation. That's the German way. Their own documentation proves the Holocaust. It really is case closed unless you're ignoring the facts.

Show me once official document from WW2 ordering the holocaust. There is none. The archivist have never been able to find any documents from Hitler ordering the holocaust.

This comes pretty close:-

germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org...

Note the last seven words on page 2.

edit on 16-10-2013 by alldaylong because: (no reason given)

Did you actually read this link before posting? Here is the last chapter.

But this fact robs the Republic of the internal support of the spiritual forces of the nation which are so necessary. And so the present leaders of the State are compelled to seek support from those who alone benefited from the changed situation in Germany and do so now, and who for this reason have been the driving forces of the revolution, namely, the Jews. Taking no account of the Jewish peril, which has certainly been recognized by present-day leaders—proof of this is the various statements of present leading figures—they are compelled to accept the support readily offered by the Jews for their own benefit, and therefore to pay the required price. And this price consists not only in giving the Jews every possible encouragement, but above all in hampering the struggle of the duped nation against their brother Jews—in the neutralizing of the antisemitic movement.

Next time mention it all don't try to just cherry pick words.

trex1980

NowanKenubi
In Canada, you can't "rewrite the history" of that period, or you'll go to prison.

It happened after that a German man managed to show there were less Jews that died in the concentration camps than what was reported officially. I remember reading about one that changed its statement of x Jews dead there for x number of people, all nationalities of prisoners accounted for. I can't remember the name of the man.
But he served time here before being sent back to Germany I think.

Sorry for lack of precisions.

That man was named Ernst Zundel , he wanted to prove that Germans were not bad people as portrayed by the victors , I have done extensive research on this , just look at it this way , Bolshevik Zionists , And American Zionist won the war , so who do you think was able to write about the history of ww2 ? Jewish zionist control the media , school textbook and publishing houses , \

Listen Jews were thrown in camps no doubt , but ..... a big but , they were not tortured or savagel executed , they #ed germany over in ww1 and the treaty of versailleand hitler vowed to make em leave the land , not kill them , so while the war was raging , in 1942 due to severe shortages of labour and manpower , well they made the jews work labour .

The only reason you see jews skinny as hell , is becasue of the ALLIED BOMBING raids , allied bombing raids were catastrophic to the food supply , Germany couldnt even feed its children by end of 1944 , let alone its soldiers and its labour force .


Do some research and i am sure you will come to the same conclusion as me , That Hitler was an Adored man by his people !

Yes, he was such a swell guy really! Very misunderstood and great fun to be around!

Actually lets rewrite history! They were not Concentration camps they were HOLIDAY CAMPS (ah that's better).

The Jews loved Hitler and all Nazi's (It's True)

Millions of Jews Committed suicide out of love for Hitler (sounds about right) because they knew they were doing the world a favour!

Jews gave all their riches to the Nazi's out of love and to help the great German nation!

If Germany had won the war we would all have found out what good guys the Nazi's were! There would be no Jews, Blacks, Indians, Arabs, only you pure blooded Aryans, wouldn't that be so wonderful!

Buster would be on Cloud 9 (until he realised that there were no more Palestinians anymore - except the blond haired, blue eyed ones).

reply to post by Hongkongphooey

If Germany had won the war we would all have found out what good guys the Nazi's were! There would be no Jews, Blacks, Indians, Arabs, only you pure blooded Aryans, wouldn't that be so wonderful!

What utter nonsense........Geesh

The US has freedom of speech and this is not a crime here. So much for the "enlightened" and "tolerant" Europeans.

Of course the holocaust happened. Germans, and Nazis by extension, were meticulous record keepers. Their own documentation is proof of what they did and this is a big lesson we should all keep in mind about the dangers of a big and powerful government. So many people who want to keep the state powerful enough to take care of us cradle to grave have forgotten what happens when the government gets too big.

So what if the numbers are off? Does it really make a difference if only 4 or 2 or 1 million were murdered instead of 6 million? I don't see how the exact number really changes anything.

That Hitler chap was a wild one, wasn't he?

He wanted to kill 6 million jews so instead of just doing the simple thing and shooting them, he instead built camps, used his men to guard them, and fed and clothed the jews. Silly bugger, eh?

reply to post by NavyDoc

So what if the numbers are off? Does it really make a difference if only 4 or 2 or 1 million were murdered instead of 6 million? I don't see how the exact number really changes anything.

I dunno, it may change the amount of reparations that the German people have had to pay. !

Why is revisionism of the Holocaust a criminal act?

Revisionism in and of itself isn't a crime. The reasoning behind it can be.

You're researching the Holocaust? Fine. I have, too. The question arises when the reasons for the research are discussed.

Is it to reveal a new fact? Or is it to further an agenda of hatred?

There are many "researchers" out there who are doing nothing but continuing an agenda of hatred. They are, most assuredly, not historians.

I've made no secret that I have, generally, no use for "revisionism" as a way to make political hay...particularly revisionism of the Holocaust. As far, far too often, it's nothing but thinly veiled hatred.

If that makes me a member of the "JDI"?...so be it.

NavyDoc
So what if the numbers are off? Does it really make a difference if only 4 or 2 or 1 million were murdered instead of 6 million? I don't see how the exact number really changes anything.

Well said - you're right. The numbers don't change anything.

Only one thing does, and that is the jewish involvement. It is the ONLY reason this stuff gets dragged up over and over again. Revisionists and deniers like to try and sugar coat it in other ways, but when it boils down to it, thats the reason and its borne out from one of three things - straight up hate, some form of erstaz Nazi worship or the inability to separate out the actions of the current Israeli regime from events that happened over 68 years ago.

reply to post by seagull


So another's love of factual history becomes a "Hate Crime" if it shows that your accepted history contains some big lies?

Actually that is exactly why "Hate Crime laws" are developed. Who is to determine the motive for a question? Is it "Love of Truth" or a "Hate Crime"? How does one know what is in another's heart? The reasons for "Hate Crime" Laws and for Holocaust Denial Laws are similar and are repugnant to honest men.

Astrocyte
reply to post by MALBOSIA

 

Losing 6 million members of your religion/ethnicity/people was not a gain. 1/3rd of world Jewry was killed in World War II.



While I don't think it deserves to be criminalized, it does very much deserve to be castigated in the harshest language.

While I do not think the holocaust was a good thing for anybody, how many people in the next 6 years (length of WW2) will die from hunger? More than 6million? Well the answer is 1.5million kids a year die from hunger, that is not including Adults and old people.
Yet here we are, no great protest, getting on with life while millions die from HUNGER.
Then there is being born into AIDS and other diseases.

Holocaust was bad no doubt about it, not the worst thing ever, it was just given a hell of a lot more publicity.
Sure we know there are starving Africans and Indians but that doesn't count right?

Hitler was a traitor to his people. Personally I think that he was a british agent, thats proberly why the queens cousin Anthony Blunt went to germany after the war. To collect the evidence. Personal letters and documents which would have shown the truth of this matter. Of course we the people wont be able to see this evidence. As it would bring these royal parasites down in a second, if we knew the truth of the matter. Just like this holohoax bs. 6 5 4 3 2 1 million? Not only that, but there was a higher jewish world population after the war. No missing millions. No bars of soap or lamp shades ect. Lies? yes they are a plenty in this bs story and thats all it is.
Those silly germans. Building camps ect and gas chambers? As some one already said. It would have been easier and simpler just to shoot them.
Much better to invent some wild crazy storys, that way some people could screw the germans over for more money. They even were given a land. That has now built walls around people and are using WMD to murder the people who have lived there for hundreds of years. And if any one says any thing about these crimes? They are a nazi and an anti semite. You couldnt make it up, hold on a minute some did just that. His-story is written by the winners. Or whiners in this case.

illuminnaughty
Those silly germans. Building camps ect and gas chambers? As some one already said. It would have been easier and simpler just to shoot them.

But they did shoot them.

Lets deny some outright blatant ignorance shall we?

Look up Einsatzgruppen der Sicherheitspolizei und des SD

And then look up Babi Yar.

And then think like a Nazi fighting a war on two fronts, where are the bullets better used?

NavyDoc
The US has freedom of speech and this is not a crime here. So much for the "enlightened" and "tolerant" Europeans.

Of course the holocaust happened. Germans, and Nazis by extension, were meticulous record keepers. Their own documentation is proof of what they did and this is a big lesson we should all keep in mind about the dangers of a big and powerful government. So many people who want to keep the state powerful enough to take care of us cradle to grave have forgotten what happens when the government gets too big.

So what if the numbers are off? Does it really make a difference if only 4 or 2 or 1 million were murdered instead of 6 million? I don't see how the exact number really changes anything.

Forged documents , becasue no such EXTERMINATION ever happened

reply to post by neformore


Yes I have read about the einsatzgruppen and Dirlewanger anti partisan units. Ect ect. They didnt kill 6 million either. It was a time of war and partisans were killed by all sides. Stalin and his jewish gang killed 10 million people getting into power. Then the russians lost how many during the war? another 20 million? 654321 million pales in comparison to those figures. Maybe the russians should have been given some one elses land. Hang on a minute. Isnt that were most of these so called jewish people in Israel are from? Not sure about that but I do no that they are a bunch of racists. Sterilising africans and murdering any one who dosnt fit in.

reply to post by spartacus699

Naaa I think the numbers were grossly exaggerated for the simple fact that the victors of war write history. I'm not saying that makes the nazi's any better either. They're still bad people obviously.

What I'm trying to point out though is the tptb lie all the time. Absolutely not to be trusted in any way shape or form. We can't even fully believe our history books.

The Holocaust Just Got More Shocking

“The numbers are so much higher than what we originally thought,” Hartmut Berghoff, director of the institute, said in an interview after learning of the new data.

“We knew before how horrible life in the camps and ghettos was,” he said, “but the numbers are unbelievable.”

The documented camps include not only “killing centers” but also thousands of forced labor camps, where prisoners manufactured war supplies; prisoner-of-war camps; sites euphemistically named “care” centers, where pregnant women were forced to have abortions or their babies were killed after birth; and brothels, where women were coerced into having sex with German military personnel.

Auschwitz and a handful of other concentration camps have come to symbolize the Nazi killing machine in the public consciousness. Likewise, the Nazi system for imprisoning Jewish families in hometown ghettos has become associated with a single site — the Warsaw Ghetto, famous for the 1943 uprising. But these sites, infamous though they are, represent only a minuscule fraction of the entire German network, the new research makes painfully clear.

I'm sure your math skills are excellent - but opinion doesn't count as research. Often - when we don't like what we're hearing - we just say (over and over apparently) that TPTB - or the victors - say what they want us to hear

Sometimes so do posters - subtly or otherwise

But it's OK - the Nazis were still really bad people - obviously

Oh, and edit to add:

The numbers astound: 30,000 slave labor camps; 1,150 Jewish ghettos; 980 concentration camps; 1,000 prisoner-of-war camps; 500 brothels filled with sex slaves; and thousands of other camps used for euthanizing the elderly and infirm, performing forced abortions, “Germanizing” prisoners or transporting victims to killing centers.

Christopher Hitchens has called David Irving one of the "necessary historians" and he is right. I think in censuring people like Irving and Zundel, society is making a mistake. It is far better to have open discussion of historical matters than to declare an historical event like the holocaust a matter of fact beyond dispute.

Fortunately YouTube has presentations by both of these men available for viewing. Neither is a demonic figure. I would like to read some of Irving's books on Germany, Hitler and other WW2 related subjects. His book on Churchill would be considered a must I should think, a needed counterbalance to a lot of the hagiography of Britain's great wartime leader.

Zundel idolizes Hitler. I don't idolize Hitler. He was probably the first "modern" politician, operating in a mode that has been adopted by all who followed; his use of mass media, his barnstorming air assisted speaking tours, etc. However, Zundel doesn't attach enough weight to the fact that Hitler's military high command tried to assassinate him several times. Surely they had legitimate reasons for trying.

Irving said once in a presentation that he has never read Mein Kampf. His reason being that "Hitler didn't write it." That may very well be largely true, but Hitler did allow it to be published under his name and undoubtedly knew what it said and undoubtedly agreed with what it said. The knock against Irving has been "selective, tendentious history", designed to obscure the real truth in order to rehabilitate the Nazis. Not reading Mein Kampf would seem to be an obvious example of this.

Having said that, I am eager to read Irving's books, because he has had an access to documents and personalities rivaled by few historians and he is a sane and rational man. I like him.

Zundel has researched the holocaust like an historian and few people are as knowledgeable as he is about the literature of the holocaust and matters of Jewish history. He would be an outstanding librarian at any Israeli university. He is also a pacifist vegetarian who believes that neo-Nazis are a hopeless anachronism whose use of the swastika emblem is a defilement of one of Germany's sacred symbols.

If anything Zundel is an ardent German, not an ardent Nazi. The Nazi period for him was an heroic, phoenix-like rise from the degradation and suffering that followed WW1. He idealizes this period, I think, and is blind to its darker side and gives virtually no credit to the role played by heroic non-Nazis in Germany's resurrection.

Neither of these people are the devils they have been made out to be.

reply to post by Tusks


Some is factual. ...and then there are those, who for whatever reason, decide to make up, or alter into unrecognizability, their own "facts".

To attempt to call all revisonism legitimate is to deny reality. Don't pretend otherwise. There are those revisionists whose only cause is hatred.

reply to post by Tusks

So another's love of factual history becomes a "Hate Crime" if it shows that your accepted history contains some big lies?

The word lie is the tell that gives the whole thing away

History is a chaos of memory and fact - no matter how hard anyone tries - there are going to be mistakes. History is rewritten every single day. Denial is not just about accuracy though...no matter how it shakes out it still ends up being a message. It's propaganda - even when it's accurate

Denial of the Holocaust is a lot like the denial of man made climate change - there's a motive behind the denial

So be it - let them have at it. Bring on their facts and their theories!

Freedom of speech is tricky - and sometimes being allowed to speak works against a plan as much as it works for it

_______________________________________________________


I believe in freedom of speech - for everyone

I also believe in being allowed to argue against it

:-)

Ernst Zundel has one very significant problem and I believe that problem is what has caused him most of his trouble.

He is a moralist who believes that Israel and the Jewish diaspora world-wide have some karmic debts to pay and that they are going to get a comeuppance. That makes him a navigational hazard for mainstream politicians and established interests.

The world of realpolitik has a way of dealing with moralists. It generally bulldozes right over them.

My personal opinion is that he would be better off to treat the major Jewish and Israeli political and financial manouvers as manifestations of mass hysteria rather than matters of moral turpitude.

In our world psychology gets one better traction than morality.

Undoubtedly there is moral turpitude among the prime movers at the top of Jewish society (and all other societies) but the vehicle these people ride is hysterical fear among Jews in general, of yet another trip into the meat grinder.