What is the problem with Obama care?

I've been wondering this for a while... myself being Canadian, I have no idea what the hassle is all about

Isn't it just "affordable health care"?

• ObamaCare's goal is give more Americans access to affordable, quality health insurance and to reduce the growth in health care spending in the U.S.

• The fact is ObamaCare does not replace private insurance, Medicare, or Medicaid. If you have health coverage you like, you can keep it.

• ObamaCare regulates some of the worst practices of the for-profit health care industry.

obamacarefacts.com...

etc etc...

So what is the issue... I don't understand?

reply to post by Akragon


There are many problems with it...for one, it's unconstitutional to tell us you HAVE to have this or else. Two, it's not more affordable, it's more expensive. Three, there are a lot of hidden clauses through out Obama care that people don't know yet....for example everyone has to be on birth control that goes against religious beliefs...stuff like that....

reply to post by Akragon


oK.

Imagine you had a GREAT blue cross coverage plan. Perfectly affordable, covered the whole family and things were great.

Then Stephen harper changes the rules of Medicare and forces you to purchase insurance through a government set up exchange program.

Blue Cross drops your coverage due to the changes, and when you take a look at a similar plan on the exchange, you notice the premiums and overall costs have been jacked up about 100% or more.

Now imagine on top of all of that, your family doctor tells you that he can't have you as a patient anymore, because the plans you have no longer work with how he's paid and runs his practice.

That's sorta what they are dealing with.

~Tenth

I think the problem is that never in the our nation's history have we been required by law to purchase a private product or face penalty of legal fines and perhaps much worse if enough time goes unpaid to the IRS.

When car insurance became mandatory to have just to drive down the street, they said it would make it cheaper because now everyone would be in 'the pool' to spread costs. Well, more people joined and that pool got bigger but it sure didn't change rates in any positive way. Quite the opposite.

You could always quit driving if you didn't like it, and you didn't owe anything.

Now? How do you protest and choose to stop something ..you can't stop? What are we to do? Stop breathing this time? err... IRS debt carries beyond death against the Estate of the deceased, as a technical point. Even dying won't escape what has literally become a tax to be a resident of this nation.

Perhaps changing where I reside is something to consider, if this isn't changed in time. I don't much care for a "living" tax I can't even die to escape. That's the reality of Obamacare...whatever they intended it to be.

Akragon
Isn't it just "affordable health care"?

It's not health care. It's forced purchase of insurance that sucks and that a lot of people don't want to purchase. And it's a lot of jobs being lost because the employers can't afford it ... cutting peoples work hours from 40 hours a week to 29 hours to avoid having to pay extra Obamacare costs.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


The reason why ours is affordable, free sometimes, and works is because its not blue cross, the middle man is not there. Its the Gov medical services.

reply to post by Akragon


I will admit I don't know much about it..but I do know more money is being taken out of my hubby's check because of it.

We have healthcare insurance through his work. Not sure how much Obamacare will affect us other than more money being taken out.

I do know that if you don't have insurance you will be fined. Which I think is wrong. If someone doesn't want insurance ...why do they have to get it?

I have friends who can't afford healthcare insurance....they have 5 kids. Now they will be made to get Obamacare...not sure they will even be able to afford that either. Btw...they have found plenty of docs around my area that work with people who don't have insurance.

I have another friend that looked into getting the insurance..and she can't afford it and she's scared about the fine she will receive.

I just don't think it's a good idea at all...but it seems we have no choice...
*shoulder shrug*

Unity_99
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

The reason why ours is affordable, free sometimes, and works is because its not blue cross, the middle man is not there. Its the Gov medical services.

No, the middle man is mostly there for things like Dentists and eye stuff right.

I was just making a comparison. Our healthcare is NOT cheap. We are part of I think the to 10 countries who spend the most on healthcare and get the least results.

~Tenth

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Don't forget also, if in 12 months you refuse to pay the fines accrued by ObamaCare, your driver's license is suspended until it is paid.
If another 12 months pass and you own your own home, then a tax lien is placed against the house to repay the fine.

Then there is also the fact that the Government will have the ability to forcefully remove the monies from your account.

I'd hate to see what happens if you don't own your own home and have no measurable assets... Do you get put in Jail?

reply to post by Akragon


My biggest problem with Obamacare, like many others, is the fact that you are forced to purchase the insurance or pay a fine.

Furthermore, the bill itself was heavily obscured in both the house and the senate. No one read the 906 page novel. They just voted on it. It is only because of non-government individuals that we know what we do about it.

Lastly, it is a violation of my right to practice my religion in the way that I choose. I do not believe in western medicine, but my religion wasn't started before the 1950s. Therefore, my religion does not qualify for exemption. I feel that I am allowed to practice my religion and my beliefs in the way that I choose, as per the U.S. constitution.

That being said, I complete agree with the IDEA of Obamacare. I want people that want healthcare to receive it for a reasonable cost. I want people to not feel like a medical emergency would destroy them. However, I want that to happen FOR REAL.

What exactly has the American government ever done to make you think that you can trust them anyway? Why is it that suddenly, everyone thinks that the government is trying to implement an act that doesn't secretly screw everyone over this time?

reply to post by Akragon


I don't know much about Obama Care and I've been trying to figure it out for ages. I honestly think that the issue is that no one knows much about it.

But there is also another deeper psychological issue with it - The Patriot Act. That might not make sense at first, but think about it, The Patriot Act was passed to protect this nation from "terrorists" and instead has been expanded on to take away constitutional freedoms of not just people overseas, but U.S. citizens overseas, and soon (if not already) U.S. Citizens at home.

Then look at how the definition of the term "terrorist" has the potential to be expanded on. There is this fear based on past experiences with the U.S. Government that I think is keeping people from letting it be in charge of their health care.

To see this issue, you have to be able to get over the idea that there are political parties, and realize that a lot of people don't trust the government and with good reason.

Look at what happened in Iraq, with the false intelligence on W.M.D.'s, look at what happened with airport security.

I think people are genuinely afraid based on the happenings from the previous decade (whether or not they admit it, it is still there subconsciously) that allowing the U.S. Government (notice: this is not a European Government that cares about human rights issues, it is the U.S. Government that has been known to be violating human rights in the past decade) to control health is going to result in individuals losing rights to bureaucracy.

The American Government is a heavy patriarchy that would see no problem with using health care as a coercion tool.

The problem is, based on past experiences with our government, the issues may not present themselves in the initial legislation, but may creep their way in after it has been passed.

One could argue that The Patriot Act was a Republican construction, but then one would have to deal with the fact that Obama has expanded on it. All of these laws, are, over time, bi-partisan.

Eventually, someone is going to get in charge who will see Obama Care as a tool to get political gain, or at least that is the perception. It's 21st Century American politics, not European, it is a lot more of a dangerous game.

I could see a genuine health care proposal being offered in a European country or Canada, but I don't think Americans are doing genuine right now.

Psychologically, once again, an argument could be made that our country as a whole is in a state of P.T.S.D. from 9/11, Katrina and all of the other crazy stuff that happened and is still ongoing. That is going to affect decision making on a subconscious level.

Obama is killing this country... I still SMH at those who voted for him not once, but twice... SIGH

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


The inability to opt out was given to the insurance corps to compensate them for losing their ability to deny coverage to people with preexisting conditions. The industry actuaries and lobbyists featured prominently in this negotiation. A bunch of smart people --and hell yea, they got their profits healthy and they got their loopholes. And other corporations were pissed they didn't get a piece.

Insurance companies are a soulless machines and when they deny coverage to you or someone you love it may provide an opportunity to see ACA differently.

A society can be judged by how it treats the powerless. IMO, the US is rapidly sliding in this regard. All I have to do to make a change, is pay incrementally more in taxes, which I can afford. Seems like a low cost way to really make a positive difference in peoples lives. So I don't know all the facts yet but I am positive the US urgently needed to extend the safety net for people that can't get insurance. one mans opinion.

InverseLookingGlass
A society can be judged by how it treats the powerless. IMO, the US is rapidly sliding in this regard. All I have to do to make a change, is pay incrementally more in taxes, which I can afford. Seems like a low cost way to really make a positive difference in peoples lives. So I don't know all the facts yet but I am positive the US urgently needed to extend the safety net for people that can't get insurance. one mans opinion.

I agree. And I say America should be judged in a harsh manner.

I would say that if we were a European country or Canada, health care would be a no-brainier, but we are the U.S. and there are a lot of inner demons that need to be confronted.

I mean if you want evidence of health care being used as a coercion tool, look no further than today! Obama Care is already being used, before it has even fully taken effect, as a bargaining chip to shut down the U.S. Government.

Food stamps and disability and social security payments, as well.

How is that going to change after it has become law and Republicans are in charge? Or anyone, for that matter? Politicians in the U.S. are rather corrupt. Look no further than today - would you want to live in the U.S. and trust your health in the hands of our government?

Obama Care, that is already, within a day of its passing, being used as a coercion tool?

I understand that it is one side's fault, or another side's, or someone's or someone else's, but the reality is, until we can get this handled, someone is definitely going to use the fact that they have the American's health care by the balls as a bargaining chip - and they already are. Right now.

Unity_99
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

The reason why ours is affordable, free sometimes, and works is because its not blue cross, the middle man is not there. Its the Gov medical services.

You have hit the nail on the head. And this is what most people miss when
discussing the pros and cons of "government" health care vis a' vis Obamacare.

This is what Obamacare should have been--government health care. Not what
it is--a mandatory purchase of "private" service.

All of the above plus if you are lucky enough to have employer provided health care and get to keep it, you will now be taxed on the value of the plan.

And there are mandatory home inspections!

And doctors being required to report on you to the government!

tothetenthpower

Unity_99
reply to post by tothetenthpower

 

The reason why ours is affordable, free sometimes, and works is because its not blue cross, the middle man is not there. Its the Gov medical services.

No, the middle man is mostly there for things like Dentists and eye stuff right.

I was just making a comparison. Our healthcare is NOT cheap. We are part of I think the to 10 countries who spend the most on healthcare and get the least results.

~Tenth

damn right... I can't count how many times I've spent 2-3+ hours in a clinic just to get a bloody prescription...

but on the plus side... I know if something serious happens its covered

and I don't even have insurance coverage... all I need is my "heath card"