Why don't young earth creationists believe in God?

I don't believe in God, but my understanding of the Abrahamic religions suggest that God is infinite - infinite in power, and infinite in knowledge and wisdom to guide that power.

Clearly, young earth creationists don't believe in that God; instead they choose to believe in 'pocket god', a god who's ability to create is aligned precisely to the creationists ability to comprehend.

Also, I understand from friends and family that the Christian Bible, like other religious texts, is meant to be a complex collection of teachings that must be unravelled in order to understand the message. Yet young earth creationists seem to read it as a 'religion for dummies' type book, where everything is spelt out in a literal and simplistic way.

Here in the UK, creationists are (thankfully) a rare breed who are generally looked down upon as something akin to village idiots, by both the religious and non-religious alike. Yet there are some regions where these ideas are becoming more widespread.

Here's my question. If science's goal is simply to understand and explain (and of course exploit) the mechanics of the universe in which we live, why do young earth creationists so vehemently reject everything it shows to be true. Which 'truth' is it they are so afraid of uncovering? Surely it's more than the selfish fact that they are no longer placed at the centre of existence.

Thoughts?

-me
The Truth...The fact is; There is none...

Only the Simulation is true!!

I hope that sums it up...

The simple answer?

Gullible people are gullible.

The long answer?

They want so much for their belief system to be true that they will disregard any evidence to the contrary. They will make up and believe small key lies about the opposition to help support their case. They do all this so that they don't have to take the personal responsibility that they may have trusted the wrong source that they invested a large portion of their life to.

I grew up in a creationist home, and went to religious school. I'm a hardcore atheist now, but I still remember everything I learned.
When at school the issue of creation, and science came up a lot. We were told lots of different things regarding science like "Scientists have doubts, if they had faith, they wouldn't need science." I remember my brother asked about Carbon Dating (Since we were being taught the world was only like 2000 years old or something) and they told him that science like that was the "devil's" work. Basically faith trumps all is the attitude.
When I turned 13 I begged my parents to let me go to public school, and haven't looked back since.
It's all about doubts. I was taught doubts were bad, and doubting "god" and his words was considered almost blasphemy.
Most people don't think about it selfishly, they don't think about it at all. They just reiterate what the church told them.

reply to post by MarsIsRed


Evolution is an obvious fact. Cross-species evolution on the other hand is far from proven.

When Darwin came up with his theory in his day the cell was not understood very well, they thought it was a pretty basic thing. Now we know a single cell is as complex as New York City. If Darwin had known what we know about cells and DNA that we now understand he never would have postulated the origin of the species.

Look up fossil records, never has there been a record of cross-species evolution.

It is really quite simple, those that deny science deny god. After all, wasn't god the one who created the universe with all its rules and laws. If god didn't setup the universe to follow very exact rules, then he must have been winging it. Take your pick, god=science or god=lucky sob.

reply to post by MarsIsRed


You will find that science cannot describe creation (the universe, from the average humans perspective) and will never be able to. Science merely takes a stab at defining aspects of creation. Creation is a reflection of gods will, which is infinite.

To even think that the universe we live in is all that exists is quite foolish. Our universe is one of infinite universes. Look at the patterns around you, the "edge of the universe" is merely the expanding bubble that our own universe has created. It is a wall that separates us from the outside in the same fashion the atmosphere surrounds the earth... the heliosphere surrounds the solar system...

God cannot be explained simply because god is not explainable. The electric universe theory is the most accurate definition that science has put forth but yet... is not completely true becuase it can be infinitely scrutinized and defined/labeled.

So to those that say there is no god just shows you are still growing and learning. To know that there is god is a plateau one reaches at some point in there life, be it moments before death through the lens of D-M-T or through blessed experiences through the lens of a sound mind. You will get there. Denying it is the first step in finding it.

reply to post by MarsIsRed


Not this again
yawn

reply to post by ObservingTheWorld


Take a look at what you are saying. Those that deny science deny god? Science is MAN MADE. It is a MAN MADE attempt at defining/labeling something. Science is a tool that was generated out of mans desire to LEARN... the desire comes from something innate, something one CANT describe. That something is our connection to creation and our creator.

To deny science is nothing more than denying a man that is ultimately not correct. Science evolves as man learns and theories are refined. No theory is the truth because it can always be scrutinized and defined to a higher detail.

reply to post by MarsIsRed


I am a creationist and a scientist, and with God's understanding applied to the observations of science the two aspects are in unity and perfection.

The issue the OP is finding rests in those who claim to be religious through knowledge of the word, but lack any understanding of that knowledge in spirit and in truth.

For instance those creationists who feel the rock we are living on is only 6000 years old, do not have the understanding of creation week as recorded in scriptures, in that it was a re-creation of the Earth so it would be suitable for mankind to be created and thrive upon it 6000 years ago.

The Earth is many times older then the time of it's re-creation (reformation) 6000 years ago. Science has much evidence to proove this fact (although the timing is in error due to the inherent inaccuracies of radio carbon dating techniques due to atmospheric variables).

Scripture prooves the earth existed for countless numbers of years prior to the re-creation week 6000 years ago. For creationists to claim it is only 6000 years old, they must deny scriptoral proof to the contrary.

For me personally, science is the observation of the physical mechanisms God created to sustain the physical realm.

Since God sustains the physical realm the observations of physical science are beautiful once you strip away the human motivations and human reasoned false conclusions by the "experts" and simply view what was observed in the full truth of the observation.

Science produces knowledge, so does Bible study. But neither are true until understanding is given to the knowledge.

Knowledge without understanding is folly.

God Bless,

This is pretty complex for just salt water and sunlight to have accomplished....

DNA Replication
www.youtube.com/watch?v=yqESR7E4b_8
www.youtube.com...



"Why don't young earth creationists believe in God?"

^ What were you thinking with that title??

God is the creator that can kick all the other creators arses!!

chadderson
reply to post by ObservingTheWorld

 

Take a look at what you are saying. Those that deny science deny god? Science is MAN MADE. It is a MAN MADE attempt at defining/labeling something. Science is a tool that was generated out of mans desire to LEARN... the desire comes from something innate, something one CANT describe. That something is our connection to creation and our creator.

To deny science is nothing more than denying a man that is ultimately not correct. Science evolves as man learns and theories are refined. No theory is the truth because it can always be scrutinized and defined to a higher detail.

Nobody makes science, they only discover it.

reply to post by chadderson

Take a look at what you are saying. Those that deny science deny god? Science is MAN MADE. It is a MAN MADE attempt at defining/labeling something. Science is a tool that was generated out of mans desire to LEARN... the desire comes from something innate, something one CANT describe. That something is our connection to creation and our creator.

To deny science is nothing more than denying a man that is ultimately not correct. Science evolves as man learns and theories are refined. No theory is the truth because it can always be scrutinized and defined to a higher detail.

Take a look at what you are saying.

Religion is man made. It is a man made attempt at defining/labeling something. Religion is a tool that was generated out of mans desire to understand the world around him before he could reasonably utilize science.

To deny religion is nothing more than denying a man that is ultimately not correct.

Religion doesn't evolve as man learns and is therefore never refined. No religion is the truth because it can always be scrutinized and found wanting.

reply to post by MarsIsRed

why do young earth creationists so vehemently reject everything it shows to be true.

Indoctrination.

As a pejorative term, indoctrination implies forcibly or coercively causing people to act and think on the basis of a certain ideology.
[3] Some secular critics[who?] believe that all religions indoctrinate their adherents, as children, and the accusation is made in the case of religious extremism. Sects such as Scientology use personality tests and peer pressures to indoctrinate new members.
[4] Some religions have commitment ceremonies for children 13 years and younger, such as Bar Mitzvah, Confirmation, and Shichi-Go-San. In Buddhism, temple boys are encouraged to follow the faith while young.[citation needed] Critics of religion, such as Richard Dawkins, maintain that the children of religious parents are often unfairly indoctrinated.[5]

Creationism is nothing more than authoritarian ethics at work, where a chosen god through men act as the authority.
This authoritarianism requires that the moral judgments of everyone other than the Authority "god" are irrelevant. It doesn't matter if you or I think something is good or bad, wrong or right, if it's against the chosen god it's bad, even if it's proven, or saved a thousand lives.

Personally I find it to be a reprehensible system of ethics, but that's the system as some perceive as set down in the Bible. It's difficult, if not impossible for some to overcome the peer pressure and tradition of these belief systems.

Thanks for the replies.

Just for the record, this isn't a religion bashing thread, far from it. I'm just interested in what motivates young earth creationists to take such a literal interpretation of the bible (or other religious book), which to me seems at odds with the 'normal' religious viewpoint (at least in the UK). The reason I posted was because of a flood of creationist thread by FreeMason who seems intent on misrepresenting evolution. But anyway...

ElohimJD
reply to post by MarsIsRed

 

For me personally, science is the observation of the physical mechanisms God created to sustain the physical realm.

Whilst I disagree with your basic supposition, it is a view that I can respect. The universe works in a way that is predictable and can be observed in a meaningful way through science. I assume (not wanting to put words into your mouth) that the study of reality, if you will, ultimately leads one closer to God through a greater understanding of everything around us. As far as I can tell, evolution for example would be a perfect way for a God to distribute life through the universe, just as quantum weirdness is the perfect way to glue the whole thing together at the lowest level. I guess in that respect subatomic particles could be equated to Gods Lego!

With that said, I genuinely don't get the young earther's viewpoint - the need to simplify what is obviously a very complex system (as one would expect if create by God).

Again, thanks for the replies.

reply to post by MarsIsRed


Young creationists are familiar with modern technology and might see interesting technologies in play with-in ancient scriptures where older students of scripture might miss it.

Reading the Exodus (Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy), drove myself into reading the literal.

During 2 year Lutheran Confirmation courses I had a serious Pastor/Mentor. He had incredible views on the literal meaning of the Bible. I disagreed with some of his interpretations. He even disagreed with the Rapture, where I was convinced. I have had Pentecostal studies as well, which were really interesting. Just don't mention Aliens, Evolution or New World Order in either and your good.

So much Alien Technology is in that book!!

I can find countless examples of Saucers and UFO's in the Old and New Testament!!

It became a history book of Extra-Terrestrial Contact and their influences on a culture and planet.

In some ways it reads like a mix of Star Wars and Star Trek with the Apocrypha combined.

In no way am I demeaning God or taking his Glory. In my opinion, I think it makes him even more interesting.

Less arguing over what it means when its taken literal too!

It didn't change my mind listening to this guy...

Mauro Biglino: Unexpected Bible - Translating it literally (1 of 6) - Eng. subs
www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4MXLB6SwPg
www.youtube.com...


It's the greatest selling book in history that no one reads!!



Everyone is born with the knowledge of God, it has to be taught out of them in a system of brain washing.

The way DNA may pass all the knowledge a baby snake will ever need to know from mother to offspring without the mother ever meeting the child...

If they can control that simple "Truth", they can control everything!!

MarsIsRed

Here's my question. If science's goal is simply to understand and explain (and of course exploit) the mechanics of the universe in which we live, why do young earth creationists so vehemently reject everything it shows to be true. Which 'truth' is it they are so afraid of uncovering? Surely it's more than the selfish fact that they are no longer placed at the centre of existence.

Thoughts?

Well, kind of a loaded question but I'll take a relatively short stab....

Young earth creationists take a literal interpretation of creation week and using given lineages within the holy scriptures come to an estimation for the age of the earth....this much should be apparent to pretty much anyone. One of the huge hurdles we must overcome is just that....the INTERPRETATION. Interpretation is a self-guided process...we each make our own interpretations using our own thoughts and/or any other opinions we have been surrounded with or provided via other individuals...This leads to several different views, but mainly the two, YEC's and OEC's...

When face to face with opposition to one's own conclusions and/or INTERPRETATIONS....the natural instinct is FIGHT. Nobody likes to be proven wrong....and I literally mean nobody. We're egotistical beings by nature. It's something you can fight against, but it's not going away....EVER.

Science, as you stated, strives to understand and explain the mechanics of the natural world/universe....but the key thing is in your parentheses.....The scientists who are studying these mechanics often times have a goal in mind....and sadly, a lot of times secular scientists learn towards the debunking of biblical and/or religious teachings as that goal. It may not be something they do consciously....but it's definitely there...or at the very least it ends up being used for such a goal....

So, hopefully to wrap things up here....YEC's tend to disagree with the conclusions of modern day science because it SEEMS as though their(scientists) only point is to prove the YEC's wrong.

There are so many things of which we just don't have any understanding at all....Doubt is a good thing. Doubting your doubts is even better. I suggest to everyone that they really think hard on what they believe and why.

A quick side note....Another thing we need to realize is that each and every hypotheses of origins begins with supernatural causes...."supernatural" being something that doesn't occur naturally...The big bang 'singularity' could NEVER, by our current understanding of physics, EVER EVER EVER.....EXIST. It simply would not and could not happen.

A2D

Agree2Disagree
So, hopefully to wrap things up here....YEC's tend to disagree with the conclusions of modern day science because it SEEMS as though their(scientists) only point is to prove the YEC's wrong.

Nonsense.

YEC is as about as relevant to science as voodoo, dowsing, tarot, or the witch doctor in the jungle divining reality while holding the goats testicles. It is the lack of acceptance of science and the standard of education (particularly in the first worlds only fundamentalist religious state - the US) that concerns some scientists and educators.

A quick side note....Another thing we need to realize is that each and every hypotheses of origins begins with supernatural causes...."supernatural" being something that doesn't occur naturally...The big bang 'singularity' could NEVER, by our current understanding of physics, EVER EVER EVER.....EXIST. It simply would not and could not happen.

A2D

Nonsense again.

Claiming something must be supernatural because it isn't understood as yet, is simply "god of the gaps". A logical fallacy that has constantly taken a beating over the centuries as the gaps in our knowledge shrink. Are black holes supernatural events?

Our current observations indicate very strongly that a big expansion type event did happen. We have reasonable theories of cosmology that go back almost to the first instant. We can't go back further as yet because the laws and principles of our universe as we know it now, don't apply. That doesn't imply magic or a creator, it implies we don't know (as yet).

Its kinda like a Pastor saying...

"Now why did you have to go and read in that part of the book?"

"That part doesn't count anymore"

Cogito, Ergo Sum

YEC is as about as relevant to science as voodoo, dowsing, tarot, or the witch doctor in the jungle divining reality while holding the goats testicles. It is the lack of acceptance of science and the standard of education (particularly in the first worlds only fundamentalist religious state - the US) that concerns some scientists and educators.

A quick side note....Another thing we need to realize is that each and every hypotheses of origins begins with supernatural causes...."supernatural" being something that doesn't occur naturally...The big bang 'singularity' could NEVER, by our current understanding of physics, EVER EVER EVER.....EXIST. It simply would not and could not happen.

A2D

Nonsense again.

Claiming something must be supernatural because it isn't understood as yet, is simply "god of the gaps". A logical fallacy that has constantly taken a beating over the centuries as the gaps in our knowledge shrink. Are black holes supernatural events?

Our current observations indicate very strongly that a big expansion type event did happen. We have reasonable theories of cosmology that go back almost to the first instant. We can't go back further as yet because the laws and principles of our universe as we know it now, don't apply. That doesn't imply magic or a creator, it implies we don't know (as yet).

Not sure but I believe you don't clearly understand what I'm saying here.....I never once said science was relevant to the young earth creationist....I simply said that it SEEMS that science is on the offensive to deny the existence of a creator entity...which from any way you look at it, concerning origins that is...it would SEEM as such....simply because science HAS TO EXCLUDE ANY SUPERNATURAL CAUSES.....This means they HAVE TO LEAVE OUT GOD. This automatically puts YEC's on the defensive to defend their own conclusions and beliefs....

And again, I never claimed the "supernatural cause" for the big bang to be a creator entity...You took that for granted and imposed that belief system upon me....I am simply saying that any CAUSE for the big bang would be SUPERNATURAL which means it would never occur naturally....This doesn't imply a creator...It simply implies a break in the laws of our current understanding of physics....

Not once did I mention a creator or magic...Not once did I intend to imply them....As for your question "are black holes supernatural" no because they exist NATURALLY....we have no reason to believe that they SHOULDN'T exist naturally...Hope this clarifies.

(By the way, your hostility is disgusting. My opinion and explanations are just as valid as anyone else's....The OP asked a question, I answered it with my humble opinion....I AM entitled to an opinion aren't I?)

A2D