IMMEDIATE BREAKING NEWS ! : White House Rejects 'Partisan' GOP Debt Plan

reply to post by matafuchs


As an accountant, I disagree. If the US were a business (thank god it is not) and it were in financial trouble, it would make moves to both increase revenues and decrease expenses. For the USG, it is not there to make a profit so it's expenses v. revenues should hover around 0, ideally. As it is, however, we would need a surplus to actually fight the deficit. You're not going to get that by simply decreasing spending.

Please take a moment to examine this graph. I created it myself using the excels available through the Office of Management and Budget a few years ago. Interestingly enough, I was not able to make a internet friendly version of the same graph from the beginning but from the inception up until 1975, our deficit/surplus hovered at around 0 for nearly 200 years. The surplus in the Clinton years worked only to somewhat decrease the now steadily increasing debt. In other words, existing debt was still increasing regardless of that surplus. In a layman's analogy, it's akin to having a nearly maxed out credit card and still using it but just paying more in credit card payments against it.

i.imgur.com...

What happened in 1975? In 1975, President Ford and Congress enacted a tax cut to lower and middle class taxpayers in response to a severe recession in the hopes that it would increase consumption through the promotion of business revenues. Up until then, it the surplus/deficit relationship hovered at 0. That was step one in the formation of our out of control debt. A tax cut.

The deficits proceeded to get worse in 1982 and 1983 after additional tax cuts by President Reagan. Things started to balance back out until 2003 when the Bush tax cuts plus additional expenditures for the "War on Terror" began to really kick in.

If you can take every spike in annual deficits and associate them with a tax cut, then what does that say about the importance of tax revenue in controlling a nation's debt?

reply to post by NavyDoc


O dont get me wrong!

I honnestly hope and pray for the USA to sort this crisis out!

Id rather forgo the money honnestly.

But if its going to go I cant stop it so I may as well put my money against the doller cause if the USA econemy goes then chances are the UK's will aswell and I will need that money to live! Bit of justice if I can sythen off 30-50K of profit that would have gone to the banks doing this

But to be honnest I dont want that to happen.

Still you guys can do what Im doing open up a forex account and buy some Swiss Franks or AUD cause you guys may need that cash down the line.

Both the House and the Senate have followed a bull-headed, ill-concived strategy. The House kept sending bills they knew Reid would refuse to bring to the floor, which he happily obliged. They both point the finger at the other and they both look like idiots. Meanwhile the MSM runs around like Chicken Little with his head cut off, and Obama bows up his back and screams the sky is falling till he gets his way. The Senate will approve an 11th hour bill to send to the House and kick the can down the road.

Early next year we will be right back where we were except further in debt with a even sicker economy thanks to the mandated healthcare that will sap the middle class of any extra cash they may have had to spend to fund our miserable consumer driven economy. How will we rebound if Joe Six-Pack can't afford to spend anything?

Ok, President Vetoed, but can't the Congress still pass with majority vote??

or it didn't get that far??

www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/override_of_a_veto.htm
www.senate.gov...

override of a veto - The process by which each chamber of Congress votes on a bill vetoed by the President. To pass a bill over the president's objections requires a two-thirds vote in each Chamber. Historically, Congress has overridden fewer than ten percent of all presidential vetoes.

AbleEndangered
Ok, President Vetoed, but can't the Congress still pass with majority vote??

or it didn't get that far??

www.senate.gov/reference/glossary_term/override_of_a_veto.htm
www.senate.gov...

override of a veto - The process by which each chamber of Congress votes on a bill vetoed by the President. To pass a bill over the president's objections requires a two-thirds vote in each Chamber. Historically, Congress has overridden fewer than ten percent of all presidential vetoes.

edit on 15-10-2013 by AbleEndangered because: addition

I think is has to pass both the House and Senate before it can be vetoed. AFAIK Obama just stated he would not support it.

reply to post by deviant300


Of course they did. Obama is like a spoiled 5 year old and if he can't have his way then he won't play.

Why make a compromise when you can hold the American people hostage with the shutdowns aimed at making our life harder till "we" complain and he gets his way.

Either fund his pet project or else. He would rather see the country go down in flames instead of not getting his way. (not that the country will go down in flames he just insists it will if people don't do what he demands.

Spoiled, pathetic, angry little man.

Has the President vetoed anything since the shutdown??

Fun and games y'all.This is all a show.Obama and the rest of the puppets will do their little song and dance to get the bases excited about the up coming mid-terms while trying to blame the other branches of the government and trying to convince the people that it's the other guy's fault.



PS: Then they sit around and wonder why their approval numbers are low.

I don't belong to either party I'm just a casual observer to the bs both sides engage in every day. Obama is just clownin the Republicans right now. They have no hand they are just bluffing. Obama has all the aces and is just toying with them like Roy Jones fighting in his prime. It's pathetic because it's just an act. Even if they do cause a default it has to happen eventually anyways. It will be their fault and the media will be sure to let everybody know it. They have no hand they are going to cave... for sure 100% ridiculous that they are even playing like they won't. Now they are reduced to just begging for scraps and Obama is like lol yeah... no you can't have that either all of the chips are mine. Just cash out and gtfo if you don't even have any chips. You have no chips lol wtf are you playing poker for?

Funny that as long as I've been here and as many failed "October Surprise" Doom porn threads, It seems that this might actually become our October surprise!

Looking back on all the different predictions as to what will happen when the SHTF senario

I believe the original "October Surprise" was to ensure Regan got elected.

What is the real end game with this brinkmanship between two factions of the same club?

Is it that "BRICS" are threatening to destroy the Dollar and that the TPB need show that they are in control over how to really destroy it?

There is something much more to this and I am hoping this doesn't become the beginning of the end of the USA.

Sirric

I hope the shutdown continues past the 17th.

The only bill the Senate has been talking about is pushing the issue to after XMAS. Initially this was about Obamacare, but now it is a Sequester / debt ceiling issue.


If they do increase the debt ceiling at least the Democrats should agree to the Lankford's bill:

If Congress fails to approve a budget by the end of each fiscal year, the Government Shutdown Prevention Act would ensure that all operations remain running normally without any interruption of services by automatically triggering a continuing resolution (CR) or short-term, stop-gap spending device.

The bill creates an automatic CR for any regular appropriations bill not completed before the end of the fiscal year. After the first 120 days, auto-CR funding would be reduced by one percentage point and would continue to be reduced by that margin every 90 days.

Though many Democrats label that as poison.

reply to post by WhiteAlice


Tax revenue is good...if you are not overspending.

As an accountant then you should understand this and I am sure you have seen this. If you had a client who was making 60k a year but spending 100k a year, would you advise them to budget their money, get another job or get more credit cards? This is an example of a person compared to the US debt right now...

First, they use all their credit cards and become 80k in debt buying more things they do not need, taking trips and partying and at the same time take out a second mortgage at 50k and all the while not budget. It worsens...now

Second, they would start to budget but at this point they are so far in credit debt that interest is eating all their disposable income. They continue to get high interest credit cards now...

Third, they get another job but realize that even with another job it would take them 30 years to get out of debt...

Finally, they declare bankruptcy...and live in a cardboard box...

There is NO need to extend anything. It is time to stop, step back and find a solution with what you have.

amraks
What would happen if this dragged onto next year?

It can be said that the USA. didn't default because it didn't have any money but because of a Government shutdown. Big difference. Because a default, will affect all the world economies in a big way, and will make a reset highly probable. Which it needs because the present system is a downward spiral. Mainly because of debt burden. China wont like a devaluation, and will most likely cause internal strife. If what was a third world country a couple of decades ago is now the worlds biggest economy, eating western jobs because they are cheap labour provider. Then surely a controlled slowdown with regards to trade has to be on the cards because its all getting a bit serious now.

I don't think anyone expected President Obama to sign a piss poor partisan bill aimed at appeasing a small group of Tea Party wing nuts.

Let's hope the U.S. Voters do the world a BIG favor and shut down the Republican party next election.

jimmyx
really?? that's your answer to this entire debt ceiling disaster?? ......go read the constitution???...every government in the world has warned against this, wall street has warned against this, most republicans have warned against doing this, china wants to "DE-AMERICANIZE THE WORLD" our enemies in the middle east would love to see an economic collape of the U.S......and your answer is... "the democrats should shut up and read the constitution" ??????????...

Absolutely.. The Democrats and some of their supporters are under the mistaken impression that just because they have the Senate and the oval office that they are entitled to whatever they want.

We have enoughb problems here on the home front and personally I dont think we should be picking up the tab for other countries national defense.

We have infrastructure failure, immigration issues just to name a few..

I think we should take care and get our own house in order first.

If our elected officials have no clue what the constitution says then how can we expect them to act in our best interest?

With all the fear mongering people like to do, they tend to loose sight of whats actually occurring.

If we dont raise the debt ceiling the US will NOT default. We bring in about 250 +/- billion a month and our debt responsibilities are about 50 billion a month. This means we DONT default.

What id does mean is the US government will be required to priortize programs.. We can only afford so much government, and the more we keep raising the debt ceiling and spending in this manner the more chance we have for an economic collapse.

As for what other countries think - screw em.

muse7
I don't think anyone expected President Obama to sign a piss poor partisan bill aimed at appeasing a small group of Tea Party wing nuts.

Let's hope the U.S. Voters do the world a BIG favor and shut down the Republican party next election.

Hey, I hope the GOP gets slammed the next election as well. Tired of this limping, barely getting by / everything slowly degrading trend - and lets face it, the GOP doesn't represent conservatives any longer, conservatives are tired of the GOP Democrat-lite.

Lets give the Senate, the House and the Presidency to the Democrat Party. I want the liberal crowd to have free reign - and when the left screws things up beyond compare there won't be any...B-B-B-BUT Bush / Republican excuses.

matafuchs
reply to post by WhiteAlice

 

Tax revenue is good...if you are not overspending.

As an accountant then you should understand this and I am sure you have seen this. If you had a client who was making 60k a year but spending 100k a year, would you advise them to budget their money, get another job or get more credit cards? This is an example of a person compared to the US debt right now...

First, they use all their credit cards and become 80k in debt buying more things they do not need, taking trips and partying and at the same time take out a second mortgage at 50k and all the while not budget. It worsens...now

Second, they would start to budget but at this point they are so far in credit debt that interest is eating all their disposable income. They continue to get high interest credit cards now...

Third, they get another job but realize that even with another job it would take them 30 years to get out of debt...

Finally, they declare bankruptcy...and live in a cardboard box...

There is NO need to extend anything. It is time to stop, step back and find a solution with what you have.

This isn't how national level finance works. To you and I a dollar has value because we can buy things with it. On a national level a dollar has value because it can be produced and sold. While the petrodollar is a thing, what is also a thing is municipal bonds. To you and I debt represents a liability, but on a national level debt represents confidence in the currency. If people are confident in the currency they will buy our bonds because they believe the currency has value. When we **** around and aren't committed to increasing our debt it sends an international signal to investors that we aren't confident in our own currency. Similarly if we won't commit to producing more debt it says our currency is fragile and not worth buying into. This is why we got a credit downgrade the last time we had a fight like this, and why we're more than likely going to have a credit downgrade now.

What the world wants to see (and ultimately they're the ones that dictate the value of our currency, by their demand for it) is some financial responsibility. They want to see a plan that trims X trillion from the deficit over the next 10 years but continues to grow it. They want to see us commit to increasing the debt ceiling as a routine policy decision, not a huge fight. Not doing these things is catastrophically irresponsible.

Remember in 2008 when all we could get out of the government was that the whole system is completely convoluted, goes against all common sense, and no one in congress really understood it? This is why. National and individual finance work in complete opposites which means unless someone has specifically studied it they don't understand how it works (which most of them haven't, and their voters haven't either so "balancing the checkbook" sounds good and is what these people goto Washington to do).

So the general news is saying that the debit ceiling is almost over???? Until feb 2014.....riiiiiiiigggvhhhhhttttt

reply to post by muse7

I don't think anyone expected President Obama to sign a piss poor partisan bill aimed at appeasing a small group of Tea Party wing nuts.

Quite honestly, petulance is the only thing that I EVER expect from our "piss poor partisan" President. That's all he's ever delivered, so I certainly don't expect that to change any time soon.

See ya,
Milt

I think it's time for Americans to exercise their right to abolish and rebuild an unfit government. Taking the lessons we have learned and using them to not repeat the mistakes of the past. The two party system has failed, the system of checks and balances has failed. It's pathetic, and personally I'm hoping that my nation #s up so badly that we are launched into a state of anarchy so massive that there IS NO CHOICE LEFT but to build anew. I'm a patriot, and the disgusting level of hypocrisy, idiocy and the suicidal tendencies of our nations government is naught but pathetic. Burn it all down and out of the ashes rise again.