London letting agents 'refuse black tenants', according to BBC programme 'Inside Out London'

Hmm... wasn't expecting this one. No really, I'm not being sarcastic here. Made sure to use the search tool before posting willy-nilly.

Estate agents discriminate against black people, finds BBC investigation

Here's the doc on the candid investigation. It's only the first ten minutes or so... not sure if it's viewable outside the UK, there might be some way around it...

Inside Out London, 14/10/13


It's business as usual... fifty years ago.

This is the story my grandparents used to tell me all the time.

"No Irish, no blacks, no dogs." It was a rather commonplace sign on empty rents during the mid-20th century. My grandparents, moved around London quite frequently during my father's early years in the 1960s. They just accepted it, really. Weekly wages went much further back then, I guess.

But that was, and I'll say it over and over again, fifty years ago. I know people like to use those hackneyed phrases like "those were the times back then, you can't call it racist because it was the norm", so I'll grant that. No worries.

We're talking about 2013. We're talking about third generation immigrants here. We're talking about people who were born British citizens. Not as English as you can get, I would never call myself ethnically English (although there is some confusion on what that is), but British? Hellz yeah! My parents were born here, grandparents are from the Commonwealth and my ancestors lived in British colonies for Diana's sake! (Sometimes French, but whatevs.)

Disregarding the black humour (sorry had to put one more in there), what more could you ask for?

Surely, if a prospective tenant can pay the rent, what's the problem? I can tell you now, there are types from all ethnic backgrounds who don't pay their rent. Never mind on time, they just don't pay it. We've all lived with them, come on now.

Damn I love this country, but if this is what I'm up against, maybe emigrating isn't really that crazy an idea...

reply to post by ihavenoaccount


People are racist because they're stuck in a matrix created by media and television programming distorting public opinion for corporate agenda..

And you love this country? What about the fact theres more cameras than people? That every politician is a private school no-brained leech? How about that the people just dont give a # because theyre obsessed with possesions and reality tv? Or that our churches are corrupt, which only evem a minority go to anyway, so everyone is fine with sinning in anyway possible? That people blame the lack of jobs more on poles than bankers?

There is nothing to love in Britain, unless you love evil and willing slavery.

reply to post by ScottProphhit


There's enough to love. I was born and bred in this country. Even if certain elements of it are programmed to corrupt everything in sight, you can't help the attachment that you have to your home. I know that where I am, people hate the bankers a whole lot more than Poles. Churches, yeah, but the country being practically secular is the biggest open secret ever, and that doesn't bother me at all. As for Cameron... heh.

This problem right here... Yeah, the establishment is against us. Life 101. But the people finding loopholes in laws to exclude the people? Sure it 'happens all the time', but how can we take the moral high ground against corporations and governments when we turn around and do things like this to each other?

ihavenoaccount
reply to post by ScottProphhit

 

There's enough to love. I was born and bred in this country. Even if certain elements of it are programmed to corrupt everything in sight, you can't help the attachment that you have to your home. I know that where I am, people hate the bankers a whole lot more than Poles. Churches, yeah, but the country being practically secular is the biggest open secret ever, and that doesn't bother me at all. As for Cameron... heh.

This problem right here... Yeah, the establishment is against us. Life 101. But the people finding loopholes in laws to exclude the people? Sure it 'happens all the time', but how can we take the moral high ground against corporations and governments when we turn around and do things like this to each other?

I sure can take the moral high ground, and I consider myself to have the right to exterminate a roach in order to protect my generations future, and since the police is there to protect the elite, I wont stop til they're gone too. Luckily I stay in Scotland and will force my word in our constitution when we leave.

You're witnessing the master creation of social imbalance, a true freedom fighter.

reply to post by ihavenoaccount


Am disgusted to be readings this! Yes, saw it on the BBC website the other day.

I thought it was against the law to discriminate this way?

The agents who do this should be named and shamed. I have many Jamaican and African friends and I have always supported equal rights for all people.

It is abuse of people and these evil practises should be STOPPED by law. There is no excuse to discriminate so against anybody when it comes to having a home.

Most of Britain is not like this I assure you. It is just some idiots and they need to be exposed whenever they use such foolish and brutal hate tactics that have no moral basis.

reply to post by ScottProphhit


Dude, I understand. Of course you are, as an individual, right to object to such practices. But I'm talking about the collective of regular British citizens. The owners and agents in that video aren't exactly landed gentry, or super-rich business tycoons. They are one of us, the common people. We have, as a collective, a problem too.

Put simply, yes. The British state has a problem, but so does the British nation. If we were to address such issues within our nation, it would galvanize what should be our authority over the state. I mean, they should be the ones working for us, right?

reply to post by Revolution9


Oh, it's against the law alright. That's why they're doing it through the back-door. Property owners ask letting agencies to do this under-the-counter if you will, and they're only too happy to oblige.

Not all Britons are like this, of course. But enough of us either are, or we're eerily silent on the matter. The existence of subtle racism is one that few are willing to discuss, let alone admit.

It could've easily been Asians, or Germans, or Penguins, I guarantee that it's a class issue.

Realtors don't like poor people, they have less money to leech from. If one of these black tenants was Les Ferdinand there wouldn't be a problem, but the rent would be exorbitant. I've known a few people that have had their tenancy cut short due to 'refurbishment' but yet the apartments remain the same; all the landlords do is up the rent so they can charge a small fortune to those who can afford it.

And while people go without homes, the realtors splurge. Every afternoon I jog past the local betting agency and the same real estate agent is in there, blowing money on the horses. I know people that he's evicted so he can accommodate the richer 'classier' folk.

At one stage I thought that only bankers and politicians could be capable of such greed, not anymore.

reply to post by ihavenoaccount


But this isn't official policy, is it? Not even informally. It's about private business people doing what they think will make them the most money. Ugly, but hardly evidence of a rising new wave of racism or anything.

reply to post by ihavenoaccount


This is NOT about RACE or the color of a mans skin - the way I read the article.

It's about a very specific group of black people called " African-Caribbean ". This to me would include all black peoples from the Caribbean islands and possibly the Dominican Republic, Cuba and Puerto Rico (which would make them Black Americans).

Seems to me these are black folk who have a certain common traits which is undesirable for the home owners. They don't want these tenets to bring their cultural habits into THEIR house.

If it was my home being rented.. you'd better know i'll approve or turn anyone away for ANY reason I see fit no matter whgat the state says and that is my Right but then I am an American.. you may not have that much freedom in England.. I don't know...

I dunno.. weed smoking or dreadlocks or rasta music .. something about this specific group of blacks called African-Caribbean's really bothers some people.

I cannot, will not believe this is a race issue. England is KNOWN for being way more tolerant than Americans when it comes to race so it would really be out of character now if this were a race issue but notice.. they are not turning away all black.. only African-Caribbean blacks.

It's not discrimination because of skin colour, but because of behaviour.

A bad reputation goes before them, and it's for a reason.

I think the estate agents are just voting with their feet, as it were.

They don't want to take on people who have a bad reputation as tenants, that's bad for business.

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


You can refuse all you want, mate. I know ethnic relations in the UK fairly well, having lived in London for a lifetime and having studied in the North during uni days. Please trust a Londoner when say that we're not all wearing warm, fluffy robes playing D-major chords on shiny harps. Ethnic tensions exist, and they can get quite rotten.

In any case, the term Afro-Caribbean can be applied in several ways. It could refer to 600,000 people living in the country, or it could conversely apply to just under two million. I have dreadlocks, and am obviously a black person. But I don't have a criminal record, am not a drug addict and choose to speak with a Received Pronunciation accent as best as a North Londoner can. That being said, the vast majority of Brits would tick Afro-Caribbean on a checklist if shown a photo.

If it's any assurance that we're just talking black people in general here, two roommates were interviewed at the start of the documentary. One was of African descent, the other Caribbean. Either way, almost all black Brits you will ever meet have strong ties to either ethnicity.

It's great to know about your rights and all. I'm so happy for you. But it's illegal in this country - the problem is their doing it behind closed doors because they know that. I'd absolutely love the Commons if they passed a law that allowed letting agencies to openly refuse Rastafarians. Heh... so much for religious freedom if that were the case, but let's not get off-topic.


reply to post by CJCrawley


I'm sorry, but no. We have legislation specifically condemning such practices. They are illegal, end of. Discrimination on terms of nationality (but not race, ethnicity or national origin) are allowed if you're taking in a lodger, or if you're selling your home privately, i.e. no advertising or letting agents whatsoever.

Either way, these people were refused viewings simply because of their appearances. The places would have been advertised, and there would have been a letting agent. If there was neither in every single instance, then how would they have known about each property in the first place? They weren't asked about their background. When asked why they were willing to comply, the secretly filmed agents gave no response.

By the way, who exactly are you calling them when you're referring to behaviour? Afro-Caribbeans aren't all thieving, murdering hooligans. I can't remember the last time I thought about stealing a car, thank you very much.

ihavenoaccount
reply to post by JohnPhoenix

 

You can refuse all you want, mate. I know ethnic relations in the UK fairly well, having lived in London for a lifetime and having studied in the North during uni days. Please trust a Londoner when say that we're not all wearing warm, fluffy robes playing D-major chords on shiny harps. Ethnic tensions exist, and they can get quite rotten.

In any case, the term Afro-Caribbean can be applied in several ways. It could refer to 600,000 people living in the country, or it could conversely apply to just under two million. I have dreadlocks, and am obviously a black person. But I don't have a criminal record, am not a drug addict and choose to speak with a Received Pronunciation accent as best as a North Londoner can. That being said, the vast majority of Brits would tick Afro-Caribbean on a checklist if shown a photo.

If it's any assurance that we're just talking black people in general here, two roommates were interviewed at the start of the documentary. One was of African descent, the other Caribbean. Either way, almost all black Brits you will ever meet have strong ties to either ethnicity.

It's great to know about your rights and all. I'm so happy for you. But it's illegal in this country - the problem is their doing it behind closed doors because they know that. I'd absolutely love the Commons if they passed a law that allowed letting agencies to openly refuse Rastafarians. Heh... so much for religious freedom if that were the case, but let's not get off-topic.

I have been doing some reading on Afro-Caribbean people ( en.wikipedia.org...) and their other counterpart " British African-Caribbean people" ( en.wikipedia.org...)

For an American trying to understand these issues it's very odd. We don't label our black people that way, they are just simply black people no matter were they came from. I suppose like the UK if we had a large problem with a specific black ethnic group we might adopt such a term to apply to them and use it to differentiate between the two.

I still suggest this is not about race itself or all black skinned peoples will be singled out and I don't see that here. It's about a specific ethnic group. Granted you are a member of that group and as a law abiding citizen i can certainly understand your angst toward these actions - what if you needed a flat and were refused simply because of your ethnic group?

For example: I would not like to be refused rent from a black home owner simply because I'm white that would be racists. BUT, they are not saying that.. they are saying they won't rent me a flat not because I'm white, but because I'm a white Cajun from New Orleans Louisiana. We like to listen to loud Cajun music, eat cajun seasoned catfish, boiled crabs and crawfish - we might pinch the tails and suck the heads (of the crawfish) and leave them shells around to stink up the place along with all our beer bottles and cans. So that's the real reason they don't want to rent to me - it has very little to do with skin color. They are playing to their fears before the fear has a chance to become reality. Looks to me like they are trying to protect their home and neighborhood from possible future happenings and as a home owner myself, I don't think that should be illegal. I should have the right to choose who I rent to.

If then the black home owners told me " We have a policy that prevents us from renting to Cajuns because in our experience Cajuns always tore up our houses, kept it dirty, and didn't pay rent on time." - Then I'd have to say to them, " Thank you very much for your time." and merrily be on my way. I would not take offense to this as it should be the home owners right to say how lives in their own house. Sure I'd have to keep looking for an apartment but I could find no fault in these black homeowners. I might not like it.. that might have been the best place I saw so far but i'd have to respect the decision.

I don't understand this law of yours. Why cant the home owner simply state it was not because they were black but because they didn't like the persons looks; didn't think they could trust the person with their lovely home or some other such legitimate reason for getting turned down??

Is this a government program to provide assisted housing or is this private companies of realtors that work with people who own their home outright and wish to rent it?

Well, I saw this on the news today sitting in my hotel in sunny Leeds.

The estate agents were Asian. In this case, the racism is not the obvious stereotypical white on black. It is telling that the written reports don't highlight this fact. Too politically incorrect.

This does not surprise me as I lived in a Asian part of Birmingham a few years ago. It was clear that Asians did not like their fellow "darker skinned" cousins, but the feeling was mutual.

Regards

reply to post by JohnPhoenix


The term's an odd one. Personally, call me what you want. Black, Afro-Caribbean, whatever... For the vast majority of other black Britons I know, there really isn't an issue here. Although, the realtors in question used the latter simply because it was what they were prompted with. Afro-Caribbean in London pretty much refers to all black people. Our ancestral origins are those areas.

The legal position in the US gives me a feeling of ambivalence. I agree to the extent that, if a landlord were uncomfortable with someone of my background, would I really want to stay there in the first place? Other than that, there really is a social problem. Yes. several people do play up to stereotypes, but correlation does not equal causation. The whole thing could be quashed with some kind of interview, so both the owner and prospective tenant get a personal idea of the other.

But the meat and potatoes... Legally, it is very much illegal whether it's a council house (government owned) or privately owned with assistance from a realtor. It is permitted in a couple of exceptions, for example:

- Andy is a home-owner who is looking for a lodger to stay in small premises (that is, in the house that he lives). A Nigerian student sees his advertisement, and wishes to view the house. Andy is completely within his right to refuse because the student is not a British citizen. End of, pretty much.

- Andy is selling/renting his house, but he's not publicly advertising it, nor does he wish to bother with an estate agent. He can refuse anyone he wants. It's his property and he's doing it off his own back, right?

However, race, ethnicity and national origin are completely out of the question when you're working with realtors or putting your house up on the Internet, newspaper, etc.

reply to post by paraphi


It's very telling indeed.

Living in Bradford for three years as a student was an eye-opener. Great time for the most part, but sometimes I got the feeling from the Pakistani community that my presence was more unwelcome, in a way, than the white British portion of the city.

My father (who mentioned this very fact an hour ago) often remarks about the situation at his station (bus driver). It's predominantly Pakistani, and there's an unmistakable element of cultural nepotism. It wasn't religious; white and black Muslims have driven at the station before, and they're ignored as much as all the others.

It doesn't have to be like this. We're all British, and that should be more than enough. The world already looks at us an irrelevant speck of what we once were. We have no one but ourselves, and we should be sticking closer together because of it. What a shame, eh?

reply to post by paraphi


It's very telling indeed.

Living in Bradford for three years as a student was an eye-opener. Great time for the most part, but sometimes I got the feeling from the Pakistani community that my presence was more unwelcome, in a way, than the white British portion of the city.

My father (who mentioned this very fact an hour ago) often remarks about the situation at his station (bus driver). It's predominantly Pakistani, and there's an unmistakable element of cultural nepotism. It wasn't religious; white and black Muslims have driven at the station before, and they're ignored as much as all the others.

It doesn't have to be like this. We're all British, and that should be more than enough. The world already looks at us an irrelevant speck of what we once were. We have no one but ourselves, and we should be sticking closer together because of it. What a shame, eh?

reply to post by paraphi


It's very telling indeed.

Living in Bradford for three years as a student was an eye-opener. Great time for the most part, but sometimes I got the feeling from the Pakistani community that my presence was more unwelcome, in a way, than the white British portion of the city.

My father (who mentioned this very fact an hour ago) often remarks about the situation at his station (bus driver). It's predominantly Pakistani, and there's an unmistakable element of cultural nepotism. It wasn't religious; white and black Muslims have driven at the station before, and they're ignored as much as all the others.

It doesn't have to be like this. We're all British, and that should be more than enough. The world already looks at us an irrelevant speck of what we once were. We have no one but ourselves, and we should be sticking closer together because of it. What a shame, eh?

reply to post by paraphi


It's very telling indeed.

Living in Bradford for three years as a student was an eye-opener. Great time for the most part, but sometimes I got the feeling from the Pakistani community that my presence was more unwelcome, in a way, than the white British portion of the city.

My father (who mentioned this very fact an hour ago) often remarks about the situation at his station (bus driver). It's predominantly Pakistani, and there's an unmistakable element of cultural nepotism. It wasn't religious; white and black Muslims have driven at the station before, and they're ignored as much as all the others.

It doesn't have to be like this. We're all British, and that should be more than enough. The world already looks at us an irrelevant speck of what we once were. We have no one but ourselves, and we should be sticking closer together because of it. What a shame, eh?

I think this is the BBC at its old politically correct BS. At a time when white and black and every other colour people cannot get a mortgage and everyone is in the 5hi7, and everyone is getting screwed by the system and the legal extorcion landlords are getting away with, charging outrageous rents FOR EVERY COLOUR PERSON..we are supposed to now get diverted once again by it being a black issue. No it's not. I wasnt suprised the good old mainstream media dredged up the Steven Lawrance murder once again this year...because it's a very good tactic to divert and divide society from the actiual real issues that AFFECT US ALL. In the states it was Travon Martin...please. Get a grip and wake up. I am not saying there is no racism...but Im white and Im not getting any breaks either..and I dont know anyother white person who goes around with a racist mindset...its blown out of all preportion and a its only a small minority who have hard core racist views..THE BMP WOULD HAVE BEEN ELECTED YEARS AGO IF WE WERE RACISTS...but you would think it's a large problem in society if you listened to the BS mainstream.
So what is it now...Asian against black...seriously..the country has enough problems to be measured out equally among the lot of us.

reply to post by ihavenoaccount


Thank you for the insight. I find it amazing that private companies realtors agents are held to the government standards and not the homeowners.

Makes me wonder why George Orwell's 1984 was a film set in Londen.

In America if the government told our realtors to adhere to their wishes over the homeowners we would tell the government go to to hell right quick.

Here, we tell the agent what type of people we want and we pay them to find those people who are good risks. We are always free to accept or deny the recommendation without any government involvement. In fact the agents don't get paid unless the home owner is happy with the services so the homeowner has to come first.

Knowing this if I ever make it across the pond to open my Cajun fish and Cajun french fry restaurant - ( you know.. to show you Brits how fish and chips are supposed to be done right - LOL ) - I'll look for private renters who don't use agents.