Egypt Photos

reply to post by Tsurugi


a stunning show ! I have seen here so many details and impressions I have never seen before. these fotos are a true treasure and you gave us a beautiful gift with this post. thank you so much.

to your question about the deliberate damage, I’m pretty sure many of the following kings to a previous reign often erased their predecessor's names and messages, especially if they had disagreeing polices, and often chiseled their own names and propaganda on top of it.

thank you again.

I joined ATS just so I could thank you for sharing the pictures!

Thanks!

I enjoy these pictures.
S&F

One of the best presentations ever . . on ATS.

Thank you for sharing.

Certainly an ATS treasure. I was wondering if your Uncle was ever approached by National Geographic, or the Smithsonian for a publishing deal. They are better than anything they have been able to come up with, for sure. Thanks Again.

Oh, this recent batch is amazing -- just look at the detail INSIDE the hieroglyphs themselves! Wow!

Ramses had some very highly skilled stonecarvers.

Tsurugi
Out of that last group, look at these again:
...
Doesn't the damage look a little too selective? I think these are examples of deliberate vandalism...the question being, is it recent?....or ancient?
If the damage is old, who might have done it, and why? Who did the damaged figures represent?

What do you guys think? Byrd? Hans?

Difficult to say when the damage occurred, and I suspect it wasn't from one event. So, some of it may be Napoleon's soldiers and some may be from WWII, and some may be from tourists and some from sand and so on and so forth.

Reasons why people damage structures like this:
* amusement (it amuses SOME people to shoot at things/break things)
* contempt (destroying something because it will upset others)
* the "I was here" visitor (who leaves graffiti around)
* attempts to steal some of the panels (there's a market for them)
* neglect of an old place means the stone, etc, is "free to use" according to the locals
* deliberate destruction of image and names by a successor to "erase" the person from history
* modification of the image and names by a successor who is taking over a nice temple built by someone else (Ramses did this himself)
* accident (often in war, when someone's shooting at something and hits buildings and other things)
* deliberate destruction for religious reasons

I think that all of these account for damage around the site -- that it wasn't a case of one group coming in and doing something. The damage has been going on since Ramses' time (for almost 3,000 years.)

SovannaMaccha
to your question about the deliberate damage, I’m pretty sure many of the following kings to a previous reign often erased their predecessor's names and messages, especially if they had disagreeing polices, and often chiseled their own names and propaganda on top of it.

Some, but not many... they wanted those names up there so they could show the people that they were legitimate rulers. Acknowledging the previous kings was a form of "I am the approved heir to the throne" propaganda.

WOW these are awesome pictures. Thanks very much for sharing

Part III is great. It is rare for people who haven't been there to get such an assortment of detailed views of so many bas relief sculptures.

It is not hard to imagine walking among those buildings when they were in their original state.

The Egyptians had a high spiritual culture and carved it all over their temple walls. Such a difference to see buildings erected by a completely spiritually integrated profound culture. There are great modern "temples" from various spiritual traditions in our time, of course, but there is something about the serene confidence expressed in great Egyptian sculptures that rivets the attention. I think they had mastered some secret of life and wrote it large in architecture and art.

Thanks again for a wonderful thread.

"The third Picture down" with folks standing on the stones in Hi Res would be Great! It is almost impossible for me to Comprehend how Humans could do that without Modern Technology or Equipment. It's just such a Massive undertaking. Not to mention the stone was Supposedly Quarried Miles away.

Thank you, I really had to create an account, just to appreciate your pics. They really took me there

Fantastic !

I am in awe - could not experience this enigmatic culture better - without going there !

Thank you for sharing !

s&f ... ( insert double thumbs up )

NotSoAnonymous
"The third Picture down" with folks standing on the stones in Hi Res would be Great!

Hey, no problem! I had already uploaded the full resolution version of that one for another person. Here you go...click the pic to link to the full resolution version in my Google Drive. Drive will resize the image to fit your monitor resolution by default, so to witness the actual full resolution, click on the "100%" link on the upper left:

I was all prepped to upload one of the full-res pics when I figured out the one you wanted was already uploaded, heh. But since I was already there, I went ahead and uploaded one anyway. I think it goes well with the one you asked for...look at that one for a while, using the people in the image to really 'soak in' the sheer size of the pyramid. Then, when you've got a good grasp of the scale, go and look at the full res version of this one:

I connected my laptop to a friend's 60 inch 1080p flatscreen TV and loaded the full res version of that one using the TV as a monitor. It literally took my breath away, cheesy as that sounds. The impact of actually being there, standing at the foot of that gargantuan edifice, must be immense. But short of being able to do that, I think this pic is the next best thing.

Anyway....glad you like the pics, enjoy the 18 megapixel goodness of the high-res versions!

Wow... It is utterly amazing, the level of workmanship that went into those carvings is jaw dropping.,

Imagine Egypt in its hay day... Must have been breath taking..

Very nice pics, thank you

Byrd
Oh, this recent batch is amazing -- just look at the detail INSIDE the hieroglyphs themselves! Wow!

I know! I was blown away by the precision and attention to detail in the hieroglyphic carvings, it's amazing.
Pick a few of the ones you're most interested in and I'll upload the 18 megapixel versions for you to study. C'mon, you know you want to!

Difficult to say when the damage occurred, and I suspect it wasn't from one event. So, some of it may be Napoleon's soldiers and some may be from WWII, and some may be from tourists and some from sand and so on and so forth.

I think you may have just offended every grain of sand 'round the world by lumping them in with WWII soldiers, the Napoleonic horde, and tourists. I'd watch my back if I found myself close by a beach in the near future, if I were you.

Seriously though, after reading your reply and the list you gave of possible reasons for the damage, I went back to look at the three images I had indicated...and lo and behold, they did show examples of many different types of damage; something I had not really noticed before. I guess I was too focused on what I considered to be "interesting" damage to the carvings.

So let me try again, this time being a little more specific on exactly what damage I was talking about.

Just going to use one of the three pics this time:

I opened the 18MP version of that pic in a photo editor and cropped out two of the more interesting examples of what I'm talking about:

(When looking at the full picture, both of the above are found to the far right side of the image, on the second and first "rows", respectively. And, as has become my habit, the images in the thread are links to higher resolution versions.)

A few points that stand out to me:
The damage is heavy, but sharply bounded. For the most part, it is confined solely to the figures, affecting none of the actual text or anything else. And on the figures, only the portions that were "bare skin" have been destroyed. Their clothing, the things they are holding, and their headdresses are spared.
In the second example, the bare skin of the midriff of both of the figures was spared for some reason...though care seems to have been taken to excise the navels.
The second row is out of reach without a ladder or scaffold or something similar.


Now...here's that list of possible reasons for damage that you gave, abridged and enumerated:

1. amusement
   
2. contempt
   
3. graffiti
   
4. looting
   
5. quarrying
   
6. revisionists
   
7. usurpers
   
8. accident
   
9. theology
   

I think, based on the points I listed, that we can eliminate 1-5 and 8, leaving revisionists, usurpers, or theology as the possible reasons. I'd like to narrow it down some more, but I don't really know enough to do so. Are the male and female figures depictions of gods? The male seems to have an animal head....not sure which one it is though. Would a usurper pharaoh erase gods for some reason? Or does that mean that this is probably theological, rather than usurpation?

Or do I have this completely wrong? Hehe....

Either way, it's fascinating. ಠ_ರೃ

charlyv
I was wondering if your Uncle was ever approached by National Geographic, or the Smithsonian for a publishing deal.

He wasn't, sad to say.

Then again....perhaps they just didn't know? These pictures have never been in the public domain before now...this is an ATS Exclusive.

You think you could upload them somewhere like a dropbox, and provide us with a link. I would love to save all of them and keep them for years to come. Please let us know, they are incredible photos! S&F for your thread.

Tsurugi

Byrd
Oh, this recent batch is amazing -- just look at the detail INSIDE the hieroglyphs themselves! Wow!

I know! I was blown away by the precision and attention to detail in the hieroglyphic carvings, it's amazing.
Pick a few of the ones you're most interested in and I'll upload the 18 megapixel versions for you to study. C'mon, you know you want to!

I'll make you a deal -- link ones with clear texts or things you're curious about and I'll give you the scoop on them. I'm currently taking classes in Egyptology from the University of Exeter. (I THOUGHT I knew something about Egypt. Holy mackerel... was I wrong!)

(When looking at the full picture, both of the above are found to the far right side of the image, on the second and first "rows", respectively. And, as has become my habit, the images in the thread are links to higher resolution versions.)

A few points that stand out to me:
The damage is heavy, but sharply bounded. For the most part, it is confined solely to the figures, affecting none of the actual text or anything else. And on the figures, only the portions that were "bare skin" have been destroyed. Their clothing, the things they are holding, and their headdresses are spared.

The genuine answer is "I don't know."

These temples, built around 1200-1100 BC were mostly ruined rubble in modern times. They've been reconstructed, so the blocks could have been scattered all over the landscape and other things happened to them. The archaeologists working on the temple would have some idea -- and yes, for some types of sandstone or limestone the wind can blast off chunks.

Now...here's that list of possible reasons for damage that you gave, abridged and enumerated:

1. amusement
   
2. contempt
   
3. graffiti
   
4. looting
   
5. quarrying
   
6. revisionists
   
7. usurpers
   
8. accident
   
9. theology
   

I think, based on the points I listed, that we can eliminate 1-5 and 8, leaving revisionists, usurpers, or theology as the possible reasons.

Actually, you can't eliminate those. Here's a story about Boy Scout leaders destroying rock formations in a National park: www.sltrib.com... (motives were bravado, stupidity, lack of understanding about rules and safety procedures, misplaced sense of self-importance.)

I'd like to narrow it down some more, but I don't really know enough to do so. Are the male and female figures depictions of gods? The male seems to have an animal head....not sure which one it is though.

Yes, that's Sobek (crocodile god, defender of the innocent) and Isis (goddess).

If you have questions about the deities (and a few of the hieroglyphs) I can tell you about them.

Would a usurper pharaoh erase gods for some reason? Or does that mean that this is probably theological, rather than usurpation?

Theological or mischievous, yes. However, no pharaoh would destroy pictures of these deities in appropriating the temple for themselves. They'd erase the names of other pharaohs (this often leads to some really wacky inscriptions) but not the names or images of the gods. So this destruction occurred more recently.

Also notice that most of the damage is to the figures at the edges of the blocks... and not to the ones in the middle. That does argue some natural forces at work in some of them.

HOWEVER... I'm not an expert on this temple, so take that observation with about a truckload of salt.